I think I've been had :-(

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Kat said:
Check all of his tack is suitable and comfortable. Are his teeth ok? Is his tack what he is used to?

Consider lunging before riding if he is fresh, and be careful to keep safe with hat and body protector, a mobile in your pocket and someone around at all times as a safety precaution.

Providing he hasn't been drugged you will probably find that this is a combination of him testing you, feeling well on extra feed, spring arriving and possibly some changes he isn't happy with or some discomfort somewhere. By the sounds of your post I'm sure you will get there with him in the end.
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His tack is fine, still snaffle - he did have a martingale on, so maybe put that on instead of the market hard. HIs teeth were done after day 2 of being with me and done by the vet as they'd never been done before.

Yes, once he's not lame I will be lunging prior to riding and always have someone with me at all times. I will be investing in the body protector and ALWAYS wear a hat, I can't believe some people don't!

I know that come spring, they all behaving like loonies and I am considering sending him to a bootcamp type thing, but really want them to come to me, don't want him being shifted around and unsettled any more than necessary.

The previous owner had him for 9 months, she said she bought him from a friend to 'bring him on and sell once schooled'... yeah right! Also, his passport was dodgy, but having never seen once I didn't know what I was looking at and have had to send it away to Ped ID to get it sorted out properly, his date of birth is 2005, that's all it says! :confused:
 
MrsB said:
I've checked with the yard owner - she assures me there's no 'heat' in any of the feed. I'll suggest turning him out for longer and she did say that come April/May they will be out all night.
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Get him out full time asap, build up any needed condition with extra forage and drop the hard feed. His change in circumstances are probably affecting him quite a bit, and he'll be half way to being quite fit from having lived out 24/7, plus as soon as it gets above 5 degrees the nice sugary grass starts coming through. He might be one of those young horses that needs work everyday to remind him of his manners. Don't be scared to be very firm with him when he needs to behave himself.
Don't despair just yet, we've all been there. I bought a lovely 4 yo that was described as being like a 10year old school master. In his last home, he was, when I got him home he turned into a nappy raving lunatic that refused to leave the barn and would p*ss off with me on grass. It wasn't anyone's fault, he was just a baby horse with new circumstances and he went a bit dolally :D After 2 months he went back to being an angel...
 
I am considering sending him to a bootcamp type thing, but really want them to come to me
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I really wouldn't do that - he simply doesn't sound from what you say as needing that. And if anything it could have the opposite effect of what you are trying to achieve.

The key for you is his management and the support of a good hacking partner and good instructor.

Remember (and sorry I know I'm repeating myself) but this is a 6 year standing at 16.3. He will be at least 8 years old until fully matured, and pushing too soon with any type of hardcore schooling work could be totally detrimental to his development.

As a poster above has said, slowly, slowly catchy monkey. Ride him, develop a relationship with him, be totally hands on with his management and learn what makes him tick.
 
Aye 'up m'duck :D

Ditto Kat and AmyMay and others regarding the feed. 'Nuts' covers a multitude of different levels.

Talk to the Yard, but I'd go for a good balancer (mine are on Top Spec for the mares (working horses), and Baileys Lo Cal for the boys (retired ponies)) and hay, nothing else.

Ditto also the new horse, new owner, new yard situation. It could be that it's a combination of things with him, plus the lack of feed. Maybe previous person did do all she said she did with him, but just didn't give him anything like he's getting now feed wise.

If you really like this horse, see what he turns into. It sounds like, as he's lame, you would have some bonding time with him.

Regarding the lameness. I got a bit nervous when you said he bucked on cantering and wasn't keen on trotting. It's avoidance, bad manners, excitement, or a medical issue: the second one can be worked on, as can the third; the first is either linked to the second, or the fourth. Fingers crossed it's the former as bad manners can be overcome, especially with a comparatively young horse.

The bad manners in the stable may be because he's not used to getting food and feels he needs to defend it/get it off you. Time and firm patience should overcome that (you say he's already starting to change). My horse, if allowed to do her own thing, can be a pain. Keep on top of the expectation of manners and she's lovely. I always know if others have been handling her and not expecting the same level of manners as I do. I know that by now she should be well mannered with all and under all circumstances, but she's not and despite my efforts I don't think she ever will be. She looks for the leader.

You do sound quite keen on the lad in your heart, though your head is probably saying return him. What does your instructor and/or some close and equine savvy friend think of him for you with some time and some work? Of course you might not want to put that in, which is understandable as that isn't what you thought you'd purchased.

Always here if you need a sounding board hun.
 
MrsB said:
His tack is fine, still snaffle - he did have a martingale on, so maybe put that on instead of the market hard. HIs teeth were done after day 2 of being with me and done by the vet as they'd never been done before.

Is it the same type of snaffle? A change from french link to single jointed or similar could make him unhappy. What was he in and what is he in now? I would definitely switch the market harborough for a standing martingale as if he is unbalanced and/or poorly muscled the market harborough could be making things difficult for him and upsetting him.

Yes, once he's not lame I will be lunging prior to riding and always have someone with me at all times. I will be investing in the body protector and ALWAYS wear a hat, I can't believe some people don't!

I know that come spring, they all behaving like loonies and I am considering sending him to a bootcamp type thing, but really want them to come to me, don't want him being shifted around and unsettled any more than necessary.

I totally understand that you wouldn't want to send him away. I would look for a situation where you can have him schooled a couple of times a week and have a couple of lessons a week with him. You might be able to switch him to schooling livery at your current yard if they have suitable riders/instructors if not look for someone who can come out to you or a yard where you could stay in the longer term so you aren't chopping and changing. Maybe post your area on here and people might have some good suggestions. I don't think a 1-2 week boot camp is the solution I think it is a bit more long term than that, so that with lots of help so that you can learn how to ride your horse successfully.

The previous owner had him for 9 months, she said she bought him from a friend to 'bring him on and sell once schooled'... yeah right! Also, his passport was dodgy, but having never seen once I didn't know what I was looking at and have had to send it away to Ped ID to get it sorted out properly, his date of birth is 2005, that's all it says! :confused:

sounds a bit worrying, but could equally be nothing, lots of people are rubbish with passports.
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Best of luck really hope you get through this one way or the other. Do look at his feed and try to get him as much turnout as possible. I think those two things are probably the key.
 
MrsMozart said:
Ditto Kat and AmyMay and others regarding the feed. 'Nuts' covers a multitude of different levels.

Talk to the Yard, but I'd go for a good balancer (mine are on Top Spec for the mares (working horses), and Baileys Lo Cal for the boys (retired ponies)) and hay, nothing else.
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Just another suggestion, I looked at Top Spec or Baileys Lo Cal for mine but was worried about getting enough calories down her to keep weight on without aggravating her stressy tendancies. I ended up putting her on pure feeds as it is low starch and low sugar but has plenty of the right type of calories for putting on condition, as she was looking skinny. If you are addressing the feed maybe look at their balancer as it means you only need one bag which is a bonus if you are having to sort it yourself rather than use the feed the yard use.
 
OP there is some excellent advice here.

Find a yard that can offer 24/7 turnout NOW with ad-lib hay if required. No hard feed and certainly don't try and get weight on as this will happen automatically. Honestly there really aren't that many horses that this won't sort out.

I've had my rising 7 since a foal (and I'm no jockey believe me). I moved him to a livery yard for a month to make progress (on 13th Feb). Last Saturday he had an excellent go at bucking me off, and over the month I actually became quite wary of him, he was just too much for me. They were feeding nothing but haylage and 'Calm and Condition'.

Moved him back to his field immediately this happened (didn't even take off my hat when got lorry) and when I rode last night normal service of dope on a rope had been resumed. Get an instructor to ride him from the field if you wish (using the money saved from livery). Sounds like a nice horse to me just reading between the lines.
 
scarymare said:
Find a yard that can offer 24/7 turnout NOW with ad-lib hay if required.
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The difficulty with moving yards is that the OP may well loose what sounds to be a good support network.

Providing the horse is turned out nice and early (ours are out by 7.00am) and not coming until 3.00 ish that should be offering plenty of turnout. Obviously many of us bring the horses in later if we're not riding - so potentially this horse could be having 11 hours turnout a day. Which is more than satisfactory.
 
I bought my boy when he was 4. Quiet as you like, good as gold, did everything with him when I tried him out. Dealer was 100% straightforward and honest with us about him. Got him home and ended nearly every ride in tears having been rodeo-ed with around the school, tanked off with for no good reason, constant dramatic spooking at nothing etc. I was terrified of him after about 3 months, and my confidence wasn't fantastic at that point anyway.

I moved him onto a different yard after this time (the one I had my other horse on) and that changed everything. Fantastic RI, regular turnout and other horses where he could let off some steam and play and a much better routine and he began to revert to the quiet, calm boy I'd bought in the first place. Most youngsters will go through that phase anyway, especially with a new owner, new home etc. all of which he'll be testing and working out how much he might be able to get away with!

Stick with it, calm, quiet hacking, schooling with a RI you trust whose willing to go right back to the very beginning with him and gain both of your confidence in each other and help him get his balance. With time and patience you could have a really lovely horse on your hands. :) My boy's turned into an absolute star now, the most wonderful nature and everybody loves him, it's hard to recall that it really was him during his 'bratty' stage!
 
Grumpy Jewel said:
Don't rule him being your perfect horse out. Once you have settled on a managment and feeding routine that works for you he may well be. He is only 6 so once you have worked out where his buttons are and with a good instructor started progressing with his schooling/ education he may turn out to be a star.
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Yep agree with this, the grass is coming through and I would stick to his old regime if he is getting too much good stuff now(I mean rich food). He might be testing you(he is very young). Spring is sprung, just hay and mineral lick. But you sound like you are doing really well. Changing a bit ?? you really need him listening to your aids and you.

I would keep on the lessons and might be worth getting someone who will ride him for you as well if you start losing confidence with such a young horse.

Honestly I agree stick him out in the field with a bit of hay (keep eye on grass) old fashioned mineral lick block(not molasses). He is young and being out will keep him amused too, reduce pent up energy etc.Keep him working though & little steps if need be. Try to end on a high and not into battle with him.
 
amymay said:
The difficulty with moving yards is that the OP may well loose what sounds to be a good support network.

Providing the horse is turned out nice and early (ours are out by 7.00am) and not coming until 3.00 ish that should be offering plenty of turnout. Obviously many of us bring the horses in later if we're not riding - so potentially this horse could be having 11 hours turnout a day. Which is more than satisfactory.
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Agree, the last thing the OP wants is to move away from a good supportive environment, unless she is going somewhere with more/better support and assistance. unfortunately the type of yards that are able to offer full schooling livery often can't offer 24/7 turnout and it would be better for the OP to get say 8 hours a day turnout on a helpful yard with a safe school and knowledgeable staff/instructors on hand than be stuck on a field or very basic DIY yard with no staff or facilities.
 
I owned a total schoolmaster 16'3 i.s.h he was an angel, I took him to shows every fortnight and never had a problem anywhere I went, even the kids at the stables could ride him on their own, I moved to a new yard and he totally lost the plot, he was a different horse, stressed, tense and started showing behaviour that I hadn't seen for the last 4 years of owning him, I tried everything but he got worse and worse until frankly he was becoming dangerous to ride, I bit the bullet and moved back to previous yards and it was like nothing had ever happened.
I'm not saying that you haven't been 'had' but after my experience I wouldnt rule out that he is just very stressed.
I also agree that some passports will be rubbish, alot of irish horses are bought over in large numbers and sold off so nobody would know much about them. My ish didnt even have a d.o.b just markings and his name etc.
 
amymay said:
The difficulty with moving yards is that the OP may well loose what sounds to be a good support network.

Providing the horse is turned out nice and early (ours are out by 7.00am) and not coming until 3.00 ish that should be offering plenty of turnout. Obviously many of us bring the horses in later if we're not riding - so potentially this horse could be having 11 hours turnout a day. Which is more than satisfactory.
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For some horses yes. But 8 hours out is still 16 hours in which in OP's situation I would say is far from ideal. It could well be that the horse is too much to soon, or it could be that its regime doesn't suit it. Either way a 16.3first horse chucking its weight around is not a barrel of laughs that's for sure.
 
I agree - he's only six so he wants a lot of stimulation and it oculd well be that overnight in a box is just too much for him (along wiht the new feeding regime). Is there any way your turnout could be increased, OP?

Good luck, nice to hear someone being so careful wiht a new horse to have saddler, physio out etc before sitting on them!! Just sorry it didn't work out for you, but don't give up....
 
Take the market harborough off and try a martingale as that could be what is making him buck (going by experience here!) you sound like you can cope with him though and not freaking abiut it! As he is so big it will take long time for him to mature
 
Some great advice on here...

I bought my first horse last summer, a 5yr old 16.3hh TB. He was exactly the same - quiet, calm & underweight when I viewed, got him home and he was a whole different horse.

It does take a lot of work, but when you have built a bond with this horse and got over all these problems, you probably wouldn't change him for the world. :D - Obviously, providing there isn't anything wrong with him regarding the lameness/bloods etc.
 
You do sound v grounded, and whilst he does sound a bit fresh, he doesn't sound unmanageable and terrible.

My horse, who I bought thinking he was my ideal horse, broke my ankle and scared the confidence out of my after 5 months. But, call me foolish, I persevered. He was and still is no angel, but we have an understanding. When I got him he was 300kg overweight, and he is a cob and it was summer, so he couldnt move very fast..........but come winter he had nearly dropped it all and could move.

I went from crying at the thought of jumping or galloping him, to within 6 months of lessons we were jumping 4ft (not courses, just a few) so well, 3ft and I could take him for gallops - and even stop, halt and continue half way through.

Part of me REALLY wanted to hand him back, but I didnt. Due to finances I had to loan him out for a year and the girl who took him, well she is a natural rider and also slightly insane I think! She had only been riding 2 years at the time, and folk warned me off it but they clicked and she did him so much good. I really think she was the making of him.

So I do think your idea of the bootcamp is a good one.
 
Give him a chance.
Four weeks is not a long time in a new home.
Yes get everything checked but it sounds more that he is unsure, unsettled and testing you out.

Having your own horse is totally different to bring at a riding school with a horse that is settled and knows its job.

The previous owner may have nothing to hide.
Horse can change quite severely when unsettled.

You said he was under weigh, what are you feeding him?
That may be contributing to the change in behavior.
 
Progress! Well at least for a solution to the bucking... the physio found he has a sore spot on his back and has said he's to be rested for 2 weeks, have the massage pad twice a day for the 2 weeks and bring him slowly back into work.

He could of easily gone from doing bugger all before to me riding him on a daily basis and this was probably too much for him, although the woman assured me this would be fine - obviously not! He also has a big bouncy trot and although I have got used to this, if there was a sore spot, it could of easily been irritated which made him buck.

Whilst he's resting I'll carry on grooming and building up a bond with him. Thanks again!
 
MrsB said:
Progress! Well at least for a solution to the bucking... the physio found he has a sore spot on his back and has said he's to be rested for 2 weeks, have the massage pad twice a day for the 2 weeks and bring him slowly back into work.

He could of easily gone from doing bugger all before to me riding him on a daily basis and this was probably too much for him, although the woman assured me this would be fine - obviously not! He also has a big bouncy trot and although I have got used to this, if there was a sore spot, it could of easily been irritated which made him buck.

Whilst he's resting I'll carry on grooming and building up a bond with him. Thanks again!
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This is a really good point actually (and one most of us have failed to pick up on).

Yes, if you have doubts about how much work he's been doing then you're going to need to think carefully about the amount and type of work you do.

It's fine to ride every day, but taking in to account his condition (which you've questioned) etc. and probably lack of fitness.

So when he comes back in to work start from scratch.

Walk, walk and walk some more for about 2 weeks or so, before you introduce some short trot work. You should aim for 20 mins a day on the roads, building it up to around 40 mins by the end of week 2 etc.

Try to avoid the school.

I'd also get the vet to have a little look at what the lameness issue is (possibly all connected with the back, but who knows.....)
 
Thats good news (well sort of, at least you have found the issue), keep us updated with your progress :D

Mine had an issue with his pelvis, after it was fixed, he came on in leaps and bounds :D Good luck!
 
MrsB said:
Progress! Well at least for a solution to the bucking... the physio found he has a sore spot on his back and has said he's to be rested for 2 weeks, have the massage pad twice a day for the 2 weeks and bring him slowly back into work.

He could of easily gone from doing bugger all before to me riding him on a daily basis and this was probably too much for him, although the woman assured me this would be fine - obviously not! He also has a big bouncy trot and although I have got used to this, if there was a sore spot, it could of easily been irritated which made him buck.

Whilst he's resting I'll carry on grooming and building up a bond with him. Thanks again!
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Brilliant. :) Can I also suggest you get your saddle checked by an unbiased person? Ie, not a person likely to tell you it fits cos you bought it off them, or that it doesn't 'but I have an excellent saddle which will suit at £1000' etc. If you want to use the sheepskin pad underneath - get the saddle checked with that underneath, if the saddle was fitted previously with nothing then it could be that the numnah is making the saddle too narrow and creating pressure points.

I'd stick him out in a field for as long as possible through the day, and cut out hard feed - IMO, even the feeds claiming to be 'calming' can heat up horses - it depends on the ingredients, some horses may have an intolerance. As for nuts - not sure how your YO can be so definite with the comment regarding their heat-ability. The contents are unknown and nuts are excellent for feed companies as usually contain a mix of pretty much everything. Feed companies do not have to declare what is in the bag.

Nearly 6 years ago, I bought, off a dealer, an 8yo mare. Dealer claimed she was suitable for a nervous novice and she'd had little kids riding her. On my first ride, I was in tears (previous horse trashed my confidence majorly) as she was bucking in every pace on both reins, and IMO, given her lack of experience, was not ideal at the time. But, dealer convinced me that since anyone could ride her, (and her previous owner was a 'frail elderly lady who never had a problem') then I must be useless if I couldn't ride her. Anyway, we were so desperate to find a companion for our other mare, we took her on LWVTB. She was iffy, but I jumped her, hacked her (I was some what petrified mind!) and schooled her, so ended up buying her.

Had lots of trouble with her bucking, and 18 months down the line into ownership, her bucking had resolved, and she was by no means a perfectly schooled horse, but she was improving. I had a phonecall from a solicitor advising me about a lawsuit regarding an incident in her previous home and her bucking. (So much for 'previous owner never had a problem with her'!) Had two expert riders come out to see her who couldn't fault her, fantastic little horse they said. Now, we're out doing SJ and a few ODEs and hunter trials etc. I wouldn't swap her for the world, regardless of the 'occasion' in which we bought her, however now knowing her history, if I'd have known this prior to purchasing her, I highly doubt I would've cast a second glance at her.
 
Well done for being calm and don't think you're alone, there are a lot of people on here who have been through a similar thing, myself included. I bought my first horse in October after waiting 38 years! He's 6 and had come over from Ireland the week I saw him. I knew he was a sensitive soul and that I was taking a risk buying so young but, well we can't always help ourselves!. We've had plenty of issues. Sometimes I think we're going backwards rather than getting better but I do a lot of looking back at old posts to remind me that we have made progress, even if he's thrown in new issues along the way. Ultimately he shows me enough of his super cute, affectionate, loyal behaviour for me to want to slowly work through his anxiety issues, but there have been times when I've questioned my own sanity. I managed to go for my first ride before work this morning and he rewarded me with going down the track without spinning, which he's done everytime since we had an incident with a killer shetland 2 months ago. Tiny victories make it all worth while!

As everybody has said, 4 weeks is nothing, but only you will know if you want to be in it for the long haul. There's no shame in admitting defeat.
 
Hi, contrary to what others have said, a month is not a long time and some horses, especially with Irish blood can be a bit slow to push the boundaries. I had exactly the same experience and was surprised by the change of behaviour, however another month on and it's a very different picture now. By the sounds of your very sensible attitude I think things will come good for you once the trust and partnership is established
Good luck x
 
Lord! That had me worried! I though I'd gone out and bought another horse without telling myself...:D

Good luck OP and let us know how he goes after the 2 week rest :)
 
Firstly it sounds like you've been doing a really job in persevering. Well done, particularly as this is your first horse.

If he has gone from 24/7 turnout to only 6 hours a day I'm not surprised he's a bit fresh. My boys are very calm laid back horses but would both go loopy on that. Increase the turnout as much as you can. I would also cut out any hard feed for the time being and just feed as much hay as he will eat. Once he has more turnout he will put on weight anyway because of the grass - forage is the best way to put on weight. How many lessons are you currently having? Having someone on the ground watching and helping you is completely invaluable and should help you keep your confidence and will give you the tools to deal with his behaviour.

I wouldn't give up on him yet as he could turn into such a fantastic horse. The key will be consistency.
 
Mrs B I feel your pain. I bought my horse 7 weeks ago now and feel like he's gone from good to really naughty, similarly throwing in bucks, napping in the school and spooking at unecessary things.

I think when they're big horses it's more our safety that we're worried about and I have to admit I've been looking at other horses, thinking of swapping for something more relaxed. My boy is ten years old and I similarly bought him from a field as he had been turned out for 8 months.

It's a big change for them to come in from the field after months of turnout to being in a stable most of the day and getting back into full schooling.

But everyone's comments are really encouraging, especially those who say they've been there and fought through the hard times and now have a happy horse. IT's so so difficult to know exactly where our horses came from and there's nothing stopping a seller telling a few lies to get the sale, which I defintely think my horses previous owner did.

Best of luck with Bruce though, keep us up to date, maybe we can swap notes ;-)
 
My twopence worth - I accidentally bought myself a strapping great 17hh warmblood 3 1/2 years ago who went through an extensive and intensive period of trying both my physical endurance and patience :rolleyes:

He was totally worth it though, he's the horse of my dreams and I feel loads safer on him than my other horse

Im definitely a heart over head person though, I'd say give him time and work on the bond...
 
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