I think Swales Bits should be banned from the show ring.

Please attack what I am saying and not me!!

I have never said every thing should be put in a snaffle, I have said the swales should be banned from the show ring.

Discuss!!
 
nope afaik binky every time you click on a thread it counts as a 'view' hence the occasional game threads in SB, where you have to reply every time you look so that we try and keep the 2 numbers the same :D :D

ps am still putting my money on you and hairy to survive :D :D

eta........ I think it has been discussed antagonist ;)
 
Hay its all gone quiet out there?

Do any of the showing community want to address my last post: or any one want to add comment to this thread.

The story to that point:

I said that I felt there was enough doubt about this bit to request that it is independently looked at, my distractors said they didn't feel that there was that much doubt about this bit

My reponse was:

Is this not the doubt: (as well as the 5000 watchers to this debate)



1)EARLIER this year, a BSPS judge wrote to H&H, concerned about the use of the Swales 3-in-1 bit in showing and describing it as "an old cavalry jaw-crunching bit".




2)The Swales bit has become extremely popular in cob and hunter classes in recent years, but a leading show producer has warned against its overuse.

Jayne Webber, winner of the 2009 supreme horse at Horse of the Year Show, says: "The Swales us a very sharp 'elevator' bit, which helps to get the horse to 'sit-up'. This is especially useful for cobs, which tend to want to go on their forehand.


"They seem to be in fashion, but I only use it as a training bit and, once I've got the horse off its forehand, I change into another bit.


"You have to have forgiving hands to use it properly; you have to ride off the leg. In the wrong hands, it can make horses back off the bridle."


Jayne's words of warning are supported by judge and exhibitor Lucy Killingbeck, who adds: "I hate to see them so widely use, since a lot of riders just don't have the hands for it. As a judge, it can be horrible to ride a horse in a Swales which hasn't been used properly."

MM and fumanchu you are both obviously more knowledgeable than me. Would you agree it is a "very sharp elevator bit....in the wrong hands it can make the horse back of the bridle" why are they backing off the bridle?

If I surported the swales bit I think I would be more than happy to open it to scientific scrutiny if not for my piece of mind but at least to prove me wrong!
 
I think the fact it's gone quiet, means people have said their bit (no pun intended :D) and it will die off now. You won't get the answers you want or need on here, time to take your queries else where to get some proper answers/evidence.
 
I think you are right.

That leaves it to me to thank all those who took part in the debate, hopefully we have allowed people to question their position on this topic, even if that position has not changed.

I have enjoyed the highs the lows, the laughs, the spats and the tears of this lively debate, hope you have as well.

animadverto vos iterum procul forum
 
antagonist said:
I think you are right.

That leaves it to me to thank all those who took part in the debate, hopefully we have allowed people to question their position on this topic, even if that position has not changed.

I have enjoyed the highs the lows, the laughs, the spats and the tears of this lively debate, hope you have as well.

animadverto vos iterum procul forum
Click to expand...

Well said, it has in the main been a very interesting debate and thank you for starting it, I think that a lot can be learned from many replies. Your last post (above) also shows that you are a truely rounded indevidual!!!
 
Rouletterose said:
Yes they should!!! they are ambassadors for their discipline and thousands of kids accross the country copy what they do.
Click to expand...

The kids dont-I can garentee there is no way in hell my son would EVER be allowed to put a piece of kit on a horse or pony that I did not feel was the right thing for that animal.
It is no the fault of anyone at the top of their tree (whatever they may do) if people mimic without understanding or that some parents are too weak to say no to children who are too young to know any better!

Big Name X has a horse who goes best in a gag. It suits the horse and everyone involved is happy with the choice because they understand the action of the bit and when/how to use it correctly.
Should Big Name X really struggle with a snaffle for fear that someone in the PC is going to nag mummy dearest for the same kit to look cool? Not helping the pros horse at all and PC kids mount will end up being hauled about in the mouth anyway(sorry,but I refuse to belive anyone who would choose a bit purely because someone else uses it is capable of riding well ennough to use the most mild,let alone said "cool"bits!)

Change in anythign takes time,if we could get more into the PC tests and BHS stages about the importance of fitting the most apropriate bit it would be a good thing for most but I would be willing to bet a rather large sum that the fashion led will still be doing unspeakable things to their horses because Big name X made a responsable thought out choice for their horse,and hell,it looked cool ;)
 
i have owned my cob for nearlly 10 years,the only bit that i have come across that stops her leaning is the swales and i am proud to say i do use it for showing.i found that to show a cob in a ridden class you had to use a pelham with double reins. i tried,jointed,straight bar,rubber the lot.My mare just wouldnt keep her head above her shoulders due to the curb action.someone told me about the swales so i got one to try,its brilliant but only if you know your horse and have soft hands.she works in a lovely outline and is so light on the forehand its unbelievable.i can now ride her with only a slight contact on her mouth :) it isnt severe bit at all.because you have loose rings that move on the mouth piece instead of being fixed,it is like riding with a straight bar snaffle,the action only comes in to play when you use the second rein.

Bring on the comments..............
 
Hi i thought this thread was dead and buried! But they always say there is life in an old dog!!

My opinion has never changed, the swales bit is a very severe bit adapted from a driving bit, modified to have longer shanks to give greater leaverage. it has no place in the show ring and is a short cut to proper schooling.
 
I am not a fan if the snaffle, I do not see it as a mild bit, in the wrong hands it is an instrument of torture!!!!!

Not familiar with the bitin question :o but again I guess it is good in the right hands but overly horrid in the wrong
 
Surley in the show ring the horse should rid in an outline because it is well schooled and balance. Not because of the piece of metal in its mouth.

Any bit designed for leaverage surely is just wrong, a little pull on the rains causing maximum effect without coming to the judges attention.
 
I use a Swales for 2 weeks a year on my Fell pony. One week at the start of the show season when he is 3/4fit and being a leany sod and again for a week halfway through the show season after his 3week break.

The one bit I can NOT stand in the show ring is the Wilkie. It's a gag and yet because some clever so and so named it a snaffle when they created it little kids lead rein and first ridden ponies get ridden in them, the kids have knots put in their reins quite short, they get told to hold on to the pommel thus fixing the reins and in turn the head and voila - instand head carraige. But the Wilkie is another debate altogether :D
 
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