Changes
Well-Known Member
Sorry, that's complete nonsense.
I went to Haydock Races Yesterday
- Thread starter cobmum
- Start date
Sorry, that's complete nonsense.
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Why? Coming out of a stall going as fast as you can, then getting a thrashing sounds a lot less nonsensical to me that being 'claustrophobic'
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Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Because it is more stressful on the horses than other events.
Changes
Well-Known Member
Have you had anything to do with racehorses?
Based on what?
ETA, I'm watching Burghley, so won't reply for a bit if you chose to answer.
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Based on the fact that you are asking for maximum exertion from the horse. Horses can gallop in the heat no problem, so why do they need oxygen? Because they would have stopped or slowed. The jockey is pushing them past the point when they would normally stop.
Yes I do know about racers, yes I have been racing. No I don't any more, yes I have owned TB's.
Yes I do know about racers, yes I have been racing. No I don't any more, yes I have owned TB's.
glenruby
Well-Known Member
As do eventers. They are competitive sports. Do you think all horse sports should be banned? I think you lack the understanding of the racehorse industry.
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
No I like competative sports, you don't treat eventers like racehorces, and understanding the racing 'industry' which is why I don't like it in it's present form. Too many people are too ruthless, look at the type it attracts.
If it was properly regulated, ok, but it won't be, yet.
glenruby
Well-Known Member
In what way are eventers not treated like racehorses in relation to the topics in this post?
Just watching burghley - Pippa Funnell "whipping" a horse round who clearly didnt want to do the job. And Icarus being described as an exhausted horse after falling in the water. Is this so infinitely better than racing? Really?
As for unregulated, the racing industry is the most regulated area of equestrianism. Hands down.
Just watching burghley - Pippa Funnell "whipping" a horse round who clearly didnt want to do the job. And Icarus being described as an exhausted horse after falling in the water. Is this so infinitely better than racing? Really?
As for unregulated, the racing industry is the most regulated area of equestrianism. Hands down.
Puddock
Well-Known Member
Montys_Mum
Well-Known Member
Are you actually joking??
The jockey of Ballabriggs got a ban for exessively whipping him therefore its obvious he waws in the wrong and it was picked up on that the horse was pushed too far if it needed oxygen. You dont see eventers being pushed so hard they collapse or need oxygen!
Did you really just compare dressage whips to racing whips?? there is no comparison in the way they are used.
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Not watching, so you have me at a dis advantage. Perhaps you are right that the eventers are being pushed too hard, can't say. Racing though is different, because the horses are in direct competition with one another, therefore it is easier for jockeys to push them beyond their safe limits.
When horses are galloping like this they are not racing for fun, they are running away, their body is already at its limit and when the horse slows the jocky pushes them on.
I think that it is harder to push a single horse beyond its limitation than a group, as the one that gets left gets eaten.
As for ""Just watching burghley - Pippa Funnell "whipping" a horse round who clearly didnt want to do the job. And Icarus being described as an exhausted horse after falling in the water. Is this so infinitely better than racing? Really?""
No clearly its not, and the original OP talked of racing. By bringing eventing into things you have attempted to deflect the focus, but, perhaps eventers should start riding within the horses limitations and not trying to whip them beyond.
The common thing here seems to be too much ""whipping"".
When horses are galloping like this they are not racing for fun, they are running away, their body is already at its limit and when the horse slows the jocky pushes them on.
I think that it is harder to push a single horse beyond its limitation than a group, as the one that gets left gets eaten.
As for ""Just watching burghley - Pippa Funnell "whipping" a horse round who clearly didnt want to do the job. And Icarus being described as an exhausted horse after falling in the water. Is this so infinitely better than racing? Really?""
No clearly its not, and the original OP talked of racing. By bringing eventing into things you have attempted to deflect the focus, but, perhaps eventers should start riding within the horses limitations and not trying to whip them beyond.
The common thing here seems to be too much ""whipping"".
amage
Well-Known Member
OP you obviously know very little about racing and I definitely think it is not for you. The horse that was 66/1 was running in the Sprint Cup which is a Group 1 race for prize money of £235800. He was 66/1 due to the fact that he was fairly ourclasses in that race. He is far from inexperienced having won 6 races from 26 runs. Jockeys DO NOT whip and thrash horses repeatedly...nor do they use a crop! They use properly padded racing whips which are mild. if you "thrashed" a horse with a normal thin crop or dressage whip you would do some serious damage...in my years of racing I have once seen a horse marked and that horses jockey got raked over the coals and a serious ban. It was later noted that said horse had been clipped the morning before he ran and as such his skin was much more sensitive. As someone who works in the industry I find your closed minded generalisations disgusting...and very very ignorant. By all means feel free to visit our yard any time....we work bloody hard to keep our horses happy, healthy, full of fun and life. They go to the field every day, they have fun and enjoy their lives. In the meantime please stop commenting so ignorantly on a sport which you blatantly don't understand. Oh and for what its worth...having watched the video of the race where you claim horses were exhausted...said horse seems to be fairly onepaced and finds no extra...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't! Certainly does not look "exhausted". I am not aware of whether the BHA publish their calendar notices but the Irish Turf Club do....any question mark over any horse's run, jockey's ride, trainers decisions or overuse of whip etc are published as is the enquiry and punishment. The sport is incredibly heavily policed.
Changes
Well-Known Member
What am I supposedly joking about? Bans for 'excessive use' are for a horse being hit more than a certain amount of times. It doesn not mean they are brutally beaten.
As I said previously, there are some horses that need oxygen after a hard race. They recover.
And yes, dressage whips are to remind the horse to keep forward. What's the difference, given that a dressage whip can inflict a great deal more pain than a racing whip?
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Little wonder horses are pushed so hard for that sort of prize money, padded racing whips, quite recently accepted by the industry, were very much resisted as I recall. The sport may be heavily policed, but it needs to be policed better.
joeanne
Well-Known Member
OP, racehorses are bred to be top class athlete's. They follow stringent fitness programs, and no trainer worth his salt would miss the SLIGHTEST change in a horse as it would possibly affect his performance. The stable lad would also know the horse virtually inside out for the very same reason.
The horses you mention may have looked slightly weary, but my guess is so do most marathon runners after 26 miles......does not stop them enjoying their sport, or competing in it.
If the horse is properly trained and cared for, then the risk of injury is minimal.
As for the jockey another poster claims was punished for overuse of the whip....would you have prefered the JC to ignore it and not punish him? He broke the rules, he was punished, hopefully he learnt a lesson and will not repeat the offence.
The horses you mention may have looked slightly weary, but my guess is so do most marathon runners after 26 miles......does not stop them enjoying their sport, or competing in it.
If the horse is properly trained and cared for, then the risk of injury is minimal.
As for the jockey another poster claims was punished for overuse of the whip....would you have prefered the JC to ignore it and not punish him? He broke the rules, he was punished, hopefully he learnt a lesson and will not repeat the offence.
Changes
Well-Known Member
All sports ask for maximum exertion from the horse in the specific discipline. When a galloping horse tires it's very visible. Just because you don't see a dressage/SJ/endurance horse noticeably tiring, doesn't mean there isn't damage being done.
Did you watch Frankel, for example, or Maybe in Ireland, or So You Think and Snow Fairy fighting out a finish yesterday? These are horses at the top of their game, enjoying their job.
You seem remakably ill-informed for someone professing knowledge about racing. Have you been involved as in the riding out, training, etc?
What is different about the way eventers are treated to racehorses, in your opinion? As far as the type it attracts, I assumethat is the gamblers you refer to, who mostly have SFA to do with the training or general day to day care of the horses, and are never on their backs in a race.
The racing industry is more regulated than ANY other equine sport. Hence people find it easy to attack. I so wish the SJ and dressage horses were policed in the same way as racing is. A lot of you would be forced to rethink your bias against racing if that were so.
Montys_Mum
Well-Known Member
So its not brutal to beat a horse with a whip when it needs to slow down because its tired? Pretty much the ruthless attitude of some racing people that gives racing a bad name.
Yeah some do recover, and what about the ones who dont? And yes i have seen horses being pushed so hard they collapse over the finish line and have a heart attack or collapse back at the lorry park! (both which i have seen) No way am i against racing horses that are fit enough to run without being pushed over their limits or horses that genuinely enjoy racing.
Yes they are used to remind to go forward ad used to actually hit hard they could inflict way more damage, but arnt they used by tapping not hitting?
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/horse_racing/14214611.stm
This sort of person, not on his own in my experience.
However, I agree that other sports need regulating, just seen the photographs from Burghley, can these fences get any higher or less forgiving.
I'm not bias against racing at all, I'm bias against the people who cheat and think it's ok to push any horse in whatever sphere beyond its limitations.
This sort of person, not on his own in my experience.
However, I agree that other sports need regulating, just seen the photographs from Burghley, can these fences get any higher or less forgiving.
I'm not bias against racing at all, I'm bias against the people who cheat and think it's ok to push any horse in whatever sphere beyond its limitations.
Changes
Well-Known Member
OP - you said this in your first post -
So I've just watched the race on here -
http://horses.sportinglife.com/Video/Racing/
To watch click on Search by Date, click the 3rd on the calendar, and click Closing Stages on the RHS (blue bar)
You'll see the end of the race you are referring to. All I saw was horses eased when they couldn't win, and the only whips in play were on the three contenders, and none were used excessively.
After seing the first race i actually felt really upset and could not stand to see the horses coming past the stand anymore. They were hit repeatedly with the crop which made me wince and some looked so exahusted they were about to drop to there knees
So I've just watched the race on here -
http://horses.sportinglife.com/Video/Racing/
To watch click on Search by Date, click the 3rd on the calendar, and click Closing Stages on the RHS (blue bar)
You'll see the end of the race you are referring to. All I saw was horses eased when they couldn't win, and the only whips in play were on the three contenders, and none were used excessively.
Changes
Well-Known Member
But they're not 'beaten'. The whip is used as a flick in time with the stride of the horse.
You've seen horses collapse after racing back at the lorry park? Really? Where? Most trainers put horses back in the stables after the lads/lasses have been walking them around.
I've also seem horses die of a heart attack at the races -and eventing, and show jumping, and out hacking, or hunting. Even once in a lesson in a riding school. If their time's up, it's up.
Hmmm - I suggest some riders are a bit harder than just 'tapping' in dressage. You just don't see it because it's done at home. Racehorses are never pushed like that at home, they want to save them for the racecourse. Unlike other disciplines where I've seen some horrible things hapen in the name of 'training', and by world class riders in this country.
There are bad protagonists in EVERY discipline, don't single out racing simply because it's the only one televised for every competition.
Jesstickle
Well-Known Member
This is what I should have said, but I couldn't be bothered. Thank you amage for across so well what I couldn't.
People saying dressage is somehow less cruel than racing? I have one word for you. Rolkur people. Go and look it up and then come back to me and tell me you feel the same about top class dressage training.
The wild abandon with which people spout off about an industry they clearly know nothing of amazes me on this forum
And no, I wasn't there but no race horse would be exhausted after a mile and 6 furlongs. My fat blooming lump could gallop that far without any ill affect. He wouldn't win a race but he wouldn't be dropping to his knees either and his a perfectly ordinary riding club horse, not a trained athlete.
Miss L Toe
Well-Known Member
Sheesh, I used to work in NH hunt racing and I only recall one horse which was unsteady on his feet after a race, but he had a breathing problem, so lacked enough oxygen in his lungs, personally, if I was to run a furlong, I would be gasping.
As to the whip, well the idea is to ask for a stretch of the horse so as to cover more ground, of course in the olden days, horses were seen as a means to an end, but nowadays the whip is regulated and the jocks are trained, what do you want, all TB racing to be ended?
I went to Ripon races last week, and never saw anything other than good handling and good horses.
As to the whip, well the idea is to ask for a stretch of the horse so as to cover more ground, of course in the olden days, horses were seen as a means to an end, but nowadays the whip is regulated and the jocks are trained, what do you want, all TB racing to be ended?
I went to Ripon races last week, and never saw anything other than good handling and good horses.
Montys_Mum
Well-Known Member
Well obviously not when the racing industry gives bans for them. Yes really! when i work at point2point races and one on the racetrack because it was pushed so hard. I know it happens but racing and SOME (not all) people involved (owners and trainers) are much more ruthless about the horses as they are mostly just income and money for them and arnt always the people who handle them everyday and get attached. Racers are probably more dispensible.
Yes accidents happen in each dicipline, sadly where i worked we lost a couple in racing and being the grooms were the most upset. But that side is kept well away from the people betting.
I dont mean to single out racing as i have seen horrible acts in other disciplines just dont quite agree with all the 'horses always want to race'
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Totally wierd, how people seem to feel it's ok to be over the top in pushing horses in one sport, if they can point to another and say well, it happens there so what we do is ok.
In a place where you would assume that everyone has the welfare of the horse as their main concern, trying to justify what is clearly unjustifiable, in any sphere, says more about us than anything else.
Its not the sport thats at fault, its some of the people who get involved in it, whether for the money or the kudos.
It's our appauling human nature that wants horses to go faster, when they can't, to jump higher when they can't, to adopt extreme posture when they can't.
And the wreckage thats left behind, can it and feed it to the dog.
In a place where you would assume that everyone has the welfare of the horse as their main concern, trying to justify what is clearly unjustifiable, in any sphere, says more about us than anything else.
Its not the sport thats at fault, its some of the people who get involved in it, whether for the money or the kudos.
It's our appauling human nature that wants horses to go faster, when they can't, to jump higher when they can't, to adopt extreme posture when they can't.
And the wreckage thats left behind, can it and feed it to the dog.
Merry Crisis
Well-Known Member
I replied to the OP early on in this thread, she had a lovely response to my post. Unfortunately some of you have used this thread to vent your uninformed anger against racing. Racing is a part of life for many thousands of horsemen and women. I am not going to repeat all the reasons that we all benefit from the veterinary research that is done within the industry. There is more than enough neglect and ignorance in the handling of horses outside the racing industry. So please stop focusing on racing. BTW its a whip, not a crop!! Chickens have crops!
Elf On A Shelf
...
Wow! I am quite impressed! Nearly every single aspect of racing has managed to be slagged off in every way imaginable!
Congratulations guys! I now annoint you all "Keepers Of Racing Knowledge"! Would you like a wax sealed scroll to go with it just for show?
Why don't you take 5 minutes to actually go behind the scenes and discover the real side of racing.
Congratulations guys! I now annoint you all "Keepers Of Racing Knowledge"! Would you like a wax sealed scroll to go with it just for show?
Why don't you take 5 minutes to actually go behind the scenes and discover the real side of racing.
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Looks like Pippa Funnell is at it now.
Allover
Well-Known Member
Right - so the weather had nothing to do with it, running over 4 and a half miles in heat?
Of course the weather plays a part in any sporting event, the excuse that the horse that won finished needing oxygen because the ground was too fast and the weather to hot is rubbish, it needed the assistance it received because it was pushed beyond its limits by the rider
Of course it's emotive nonsense using the whipped to within an inch of its life phrase. Some racehorses regularly need oxygen after running, and more commonly in hot weather. You are linking the whip to something that had nothing to do with the whip.
Ballabrigs was whipped AT LEAST 14 times in the final run to home, now i am not sure what the rules are on this but to me its a bit much, especially given the fact that it was so warm that day. Therefor saying the horse "was wipped to within an inch of its life" is not emotive nonsense but close to fact, had the veterinary team not tended to him when they did how do you think the horse would be today?
Nope - have you?
So you dont KNOW this is the case?
Although I have worked with teaching them to go in and out of stalls - and the claustrophobia is the key.
This has all been done to death on another thread so wont add anymore, as i said before, i do not want to see racing banned but i do wish people would stop accepting that it is ok to punish and push these animals beyond their physical and mental capabilities for money or 15 minutes of fame, and that goes for all horses in all disciplines
Allover
Well-Known Member
Maybe some of us have and not really liked what they have seen?
fburton
Well-Known Member
A trainer actually thought it was okay to denerve a horse's foot so that it could continue to race? Wtf?!! I would hope this attitude is very rare indeed!
