I would like to open up a debate

Do you prefer cadburys or Galaxy chocolate

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can i ask "pro-barefooters" what exactly they think a Farrier is doing when he prepares a foot?

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In my experience sweet FA!!! They take shoes off quick rasp, don't bother to check that the feet are balanced and the whack shoes back on! And charge me about £70 for the privilage
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Oh I just remembered one not so great experience with the farrier, he was doing jakey who was sedated and totally behaving but being sedated he was a tad "too relaxed" that and jakey is very well endowed! It nearly reaches the floor!
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Anyway Farrier picked up a rasp and smacked him hard on his willy.... admittedly farrier looked rather sheepish after doing it....
 
What annoys me most is that people think all trimmers in this country are unqualified. EPs are qualified and are regulated. There is a HUGE difference between a qualified EP and the awful extreme methods like Strasser which have given barefoot trimmers such bad press.
 
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can i ask "pro-barefooters" what exactly they think a Farrier is doing when he prepares a foot?

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In my experience sweet FA!!! They take shoes off quick rasp, don't bother to check that the feet are balanced and the whack shoes back on! And charge me about £70 for the privilage
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well more fool you for paying then....

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can i ask "pro-barefooters" what exactly they think a Farrier is doing when he prepares a foot?

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In my experience sweet FA!!! They take shoes off quick rasp, don't bother to check that the feet are balanced and the whack shoes back on! And charge me about £70 for the privilage
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Im sorry to disagree but that is pigeon holeing and un fair to tar every single farrier with the same brush like that.

This is the problem that farriers have with barefoot trimmers and those that use them because we are up against this belief.

I am good at my job, i take pride in my job and i have been left to clean up the mess a barefoot trimmer has made too.

Not all farriers are bad and i am sure not all trimmers are bad either, this doesnt mean i would recommend using one but that is for other reasons.
 
I would never let anyone except a farrier touch my horses feet.

In my opinion these trimming people know nothing of the physiology and anatomy of the horse, and how a horses movement and conformation can have a huge baring on its feet. Farriers work hand in hand with vets on some occasions, would a vet call on a 'trimmer'??

If they are that interested in feet and that knowlegeable why dont they train as farriers and then specialise????

I might have more interest then.
 
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What annoys me most is that people think all trimmers in this country are unqualified. EPs are qualified and are regulated. There is a HUGE difference between a qualified EP and the awful extreme methods like Strasser which have given barefoot trimmers such bad press.

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Actually that is the reality. there is no standardisation of teaching or of training and ANYONE can pick up a rasp and call themselves a trimmer.

If it takes a trimmer an hour per horse to do a trim i wonder at their competance.

I know of another who uses white kid gloves and a spirit level
 
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can i ask "pro-barefooters" what exactly they think a Farrier is doing when he prepares a foot?

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In my experience sweet FA!!! They take shoes off quick rasp, don't bother to check that the feet are balanced and the whack shoes back on! And charge me about £70 for the privilage
mad.gif


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Im sorry to disagree but that is pigeon holeing and un fair to tar every single farrier with the same brush like that.

This is the problem that farriers have with barefoot trimmers and those that use them because we are up against this belief.

I am good at my job, i take pride in my job and i have been left to clean up the mess a barefoot trimmer has made too.

Not all farriers are bad and i am sure not all trimmers are bad either, this doesnt mean i would recommend using one but that is for other reasons.

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I distinctly said "In my Experience" not tarring all fasrriers with the same brush at all just that I've never met a good one.
 
I had a fabulous farrier when I lived in Sussex. The ones round here - have to say they worry me. They dont seem to pay any attention to basic foot balance. The few trimmers I have come across seem to be far more concientious about looking at each horse as any individual, looking at its foot fall, taking time to improve the health of the foot and educating the owners.

So round here, then i would use a trimmer (but one I know and not one of these extreme ones) but previously I would have used a good farrier
 
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What annoys me most is that people think all trimmers in this country are unqualified. EPs are qualified and are regulated. There is a HUGE difference between a qualified EP and the awful extreme methods like Strasser which have given barefoot trimmers such bad press.

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Actually that is the reality. there is no standardisation of teaching or of training and ANYONE can pick up a rasp and call themselves a trimmer.

If it takes a trimmer an hour per horse to do a trim i wonder at their competance.

I know of another who uses white kid gloves and a spirit level

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It doesn't take an hour to trim a horse - it takes an hour because she sees my horse walked and trotted up beforehand and after, takes photos after the trim, spends time talking to me about the condition of the feet and then writes notes up, a copy for herself and a copy for me.

I'm afraid that the way you come across just proves to me even more that farriers are arrogant sh*ts who think they are god's gift.
 
My boy is shod on the front as being mostly shire he has a tendancy to be on the forehand a little and therefore wears down his front feet quicker than usual, but he is barefoot behind as they are hard as nails.
 
I use Tony my farrier - and when his back was out, John another local farrier did them for me.

They charge me £25 for Chancer and £29 for Farra - both of mine have fairly big feet being a larger gypsy cob and a clydesdale, hence why I pay a bit more that some for a trim.

I am very happy with their work as it my very fussy vet. They are sound and rarely have any chips in their feet, though I do feed BSS to help with the condition of them.

My farriers leave them with nice big frogs, though do trim Farra's as hers can be a difficult to pick out the clefts if not slightly tidied. They make sure their feet are balanced correctly - very important for large heavies.

I have had both my gypsy cobs and clydesdales barefoot and have not used shoes for about the last 6 years. They don't do a lot of roadwork, the tracks are mainly grass and they have tough feet.

Chancer has never had shoes - rarely slips and often has more grip in the show ring than shoed horses. Farra did have shoes for about 18 months before I bought her, but the week she arrived I had them off. Jemima has feet as tough as iron.

With Cairo, his constant thrush and hemorraging (due to all the chemo) went and never returned once his shoes came off. His feet were so much more healthy for not wearing shoes. It also helped with his low ringbone not having the weight of shoes on.

If their feet started to have problems, they were footsore etc I would return to shoes. For the first two years of Cairo going barefoot he had fronts on in the summer, he had a bit of cracking, but after feeding BSS, he never needed any shoes until the day he died.

Would I use a trimmer? Only if I could not get a farrier who was willing to do a good trim and keep my horses in a good barefoot state. Every farrier I have met, would rather trim than shoe a big Clydie
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In my area, I have found that farriers will only trim my clydes and refuse to shoe them, even though they are very well behaved as they are such big horses to do - and mine have small feet - only 17 cm wide!
 
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It doesn't take an hour to trim a horse - it takes an hour because she sees my horse walked and trotted up beforehand and after, takes photos after the trim, spends time talking to me about the condition of the feet and then writes notes up, a copy for herself and a copy for me.



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ha ha. i'm afraid i have to laugh at that little 'routine'... it all seems a little staged for your benefit. does she get her spirit level out?
i'm not saying she doesn't do a good job... i just think she's padding out her time... a tad!
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What annoys me most is that people think all trimmers in this country are unqualified. EPs are qualified and are regulated. There is a HUGE difference between a qualified EP and the awful extreme methods like Strasser which have given barefoot trimmers such bad press.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually that is the reality. there is no standardisation of teaching or of training and ANYONE can pick up a rasp and call themselves a trimmer.

If it takes a trimmer an hour per horse to do a trim i wonder at their competance.

I know of another who uses white kid gloves and a spirit level

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't take an hour to trim a horse - it takes an hour because she sees my horse walked and trotted up beforehand and after, takes photos after the trim, spends time talking to me about the condition of the feet and then writes notes up, a copy for herself and a copy for me.

I'm afraid that the way you come across just proves to me even more that farriers are arrogant sh*ts who think they are god's gift.

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Im sorry you feel this way, im am very glad that my clients dont agree with you.

I do think you are pigeon holeling farriers where as i am trying to gain an understanding of the barefoot movement to see if there is any other ways in which i can improve the service i offer, if you see this as arrogance and wish to call me a sh*t then thats fine. I opened up a debate not a slagging match and i will not and have not called anyone names in order to prove a point.

I am happy that youe beleive you now have the service you want for your horses and that they are sound.

I will leave it at that and look to others for more information
 
I have two fully shod, both event, one cannot cope whatsoever without shoes, in fact just losing a shoe, he is refined to his stable, he refuses to walk. The other has shoes as I do require studs in him.

The others, a 5 yo barefoot, she has never required shoes, her feet are coping well with the work she does. A 7yo TB shod in front only, as farrier recommended leaving hinds off to help improve her heels and she is fine, no problems in her work, and the last one a cob that has just last month had her shoes removed after a discussion with the farrier, as her frogs and heels were so bad, he though she would cope without shoes and would be better for her feet. In fact she has not had a days problem after the first day, and has a much more active hock action and is no longer tripping in work.

My farrier is great, he listens and advises, he is neither for or against shoes, but looks at each horse individually and the work they do. He also does each horse himself, and discusses who they are going, wear on the shoes and asks if there have been any problems on each and every horse.

My previous farrier also went above and beyond the call of duty and years ago actually went for "unothordox" shoeing when trying to help me get my horse sound and found PG shoes in Switzerland, that made 100% difference.
 
OK, I have a genuine question here...
(and as a disclaimer I am prepared for this to be explained to me if you feel I am wrong!)


Bear with me on this it may get a little long!

I have 3 horses, all trimmed by my fabulous farrier.
Now 1 is a retired pony with upper and lower ringbone and side bone, he is a connie so hard feet etc. He is barefoot, with rolled toes to help him break over. This situation works great!

Second horse is a dressage/broodmare (retired eventer) who is shod all year round even when turned away. She is a little toe in from the knee in 1 leg and from the knee and then the foot in the other. Now imo she HAS to be shod all year round as she has tiny little feet for her size and would wear her feet down on the outside toe if barefoot, resulting in unbalancing the limb... and (correct me if I'm wrong!) putting more stress on the fetlock/ knee joints, ligaments etc.
Now she is just a normal horse, and imo certainly would not be sound if barefoot.

The only horse I have ever seen out competing barefoot (it hasn't quite reached Northern Ireland yet!) had squared it's toes off very dramatically, purely because of it's movement and work load.
So I suppose what this whole ramble is getting at is that I can not understand how a horse without perfect conformation (and someone let me know if you find one!) can be barefoot without wearing it's feet in a detrimental fashion?
 
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I use a farrier (my new farrier
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lol)

My tb was shod for 17 years until i bought him, i took his shoes off as soon as i could, mostly due to expense and persuasion from my 'barefoot friend'. he had very flat but hard feet, first of all he was uncomfortable but soon adjusted to it.

I was hoping that my 3yr old wbxtb would take to it aswell but her feet arent as hard and are so small compared to her body (which ive been told is a warmblood thing). I then considered buying some boots for her, BUT I have read so many bad reviews and cannot decide which ones.

The reason i wanted to keep her barefoot was because of the following 2 clips:

Shod horse trotting on hard ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fql-xsofeg0&feature=channel_page

barefoot horse trotting on hard ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6yLEdr2EOM&feature=channel_page

I was just so worried about her pulling any injuries to her tendons/ligaments that i was sure barefoot would be better.

basically im not that knowledgable when it comes to it and i think having my wbxtb shod the pros/benefits would outweigh the cons.

so after speaking to people with experience of having horses shod for over 20 years and my new farrier (who never at all pushed shoes on me) I have decided to have fronts put on. they are being put on on 19th july.
 
i also cannot see how a horse can possibly function with feet that have been trimmed so they are "level".

i have a NF pony that has has corrective plating on his fronts every 6weeks since he was 22 months old..he is now 38 months old and yes, his feet are almost "normal".

it has taken this time because, according to my farrier, with veterinary support, if he was left bare foot or hurried, his growth plates in his front joints would have been compromised..

the pony above certainly wouldn't have coped with "level" hooves...
 
I have a great farrier who takes time to treat me and my horse as individuals and suggest ways to improve his feet. There's no way he'd ever be able to go without shoes, and I strongly disagree with Amelia's suggestion that all horses could!!
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If I did have a horse that was barefoot (unlikely as I'm a TB lover), I'd still use a farrier.

I briefly used a farrier that did not have a Dip WCF, but was still on the farrier's register - I believe there was some sort of amnesty for people who'd been practicing - TheFarrier - can you confirm/explain this please?
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He was bl00dy awful and made I right mess of Chivy's feet.

I've only seen a trimmer working once, and wasn't impressed, took ages and seemed to have no idea what she was doing! Personally, I think its a fashion, almost a cult that people get into.
 
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I have a great farrier who takes time to treat me and my horse as individuals and suggest ways to improve his feet. There's no way he'd ever be able to go without shoes, and I strongly disagree with Amelia's suggestion that all horses could!!
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If I did have a horse that was barefoot (unlikely as I'm a TB lover), I'd still use a farrier.

I briefly used a farrier that did not have a Dip WCF, but was still on the farrier's register - I believe there was some sort of amnesty for people who'd been practicing - TheFarrier - can you confirm/explain this please?
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He was bl00dy awful and made I right mess of Chivy's feet.

I've only seen a trimmer working once, and wasn't impressed, took ages and seemed to have no idea what she was doing! Personally, I think its a fashion, almost a cult that people get into.

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He would have been in part five of the register, Possibly an older man who was around before the register came in and would have been considered a good shoer and exempt from having to do the diploma for the register. This decision would have been made by the FRC and is not one they make lightly
 
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Lucyfer you shouldnt be trotting your horses on tarmac or concrete surfaces anyway

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I don't or should I say I wouldn't (looking to the future), unless I absolutely need to!
 
sorry i didnt realise you thought i meant you,
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i mean in relation to those videos. Shoes create more concussion and horses shouldnt be trotted on roads so it is an unfair comparason
 
My horse is shod, and have had to be very picky with farriers because American Quarter Horses a) have crap feet (mine's one of the better ones as all four are black horn) b) have to be trimmed so that their feet are quite upright, small and neat which some farriers seem to be incapable of grasping.
The one I use now costs me a fortune, but he's great - he's also worked with our YO who does biomechanics to trim her feet on recommendations from gait analysis.
He also puts up with her being a complete grumpy cow!
I have seen some barefoot QHs and their feet were rubbish, I would be embarrassed to show them.
But equally my friend's coloured cob is barefoot (trimmed by her farrier) and his feet are fantastic...
 
Ive seen first hand a number of horses lamed by barefoot trimmers of differing 'persuasions' and owners who seem to think that this is acceptable for long periods of 'adjustment'. IMO this is owner cruelty and having witnessed one strasser trimmed mare crying out in pain being asked to walk out of her stable, succumbing to laminitis and her owner STILL insisting there wasnt a problem Im afraid i will NOT have my opinion of ANY barefoot trimmer changed.

Ive had many horses over the years, some shod, some not and some who went from one to the other depending on work and the time of year and in all that time I have NEVER had any problem with a farrier looking after my hoofcare.

I have no problem at all with a horse being unshod...if the feet can cope then thats wonderful but to inflict a fashion such as BFT on an animal for the sake of your own whim is appalling.
 
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Lucyfer you shouldnt be trotting your horses on tarmac or concrete surfaces anyway

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OMG don't say that.........

I've always trotted on the roads...........
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iron horse i have some quarter horses on my books that are trimmed although he has shoes on the stallion when its in work, and their feet are upright and i keep them that way because thats how they are.

They have lovely feet though.

The hoof colour does not dictate its strength or health though
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Lucyfer you shouldnt be trotting your horses on tarmac or concrete surfaces anyway

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Haven't watched the vid (comp being a spaz) but if we didn't trot on tarmac we'd never get anywhere with the driving horses..... Only had one horse at work go down with leg problems from the ground but it was, after x-rays, decided it was conformational defect that the hard ground made worse, this was only after 12 years of hard work.
 
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sorry i didnt realise you thought i meant you,
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i mean in relation to those videos. Shoes create more concussion and horses shouldnt be trotted on roads so it is an unfair comparason

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That's ok! I see so many people hammer their horses in trot on the roads, it makes me cringe to think of their poor legs. I know there are situations when it would be safest to trot on the road (eg round a sharp bend etc) but not hammer them and that's the only time I would
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Ive seen first hand a number of horses lamed by barefoot trimmers of differing 'persuasions' and owners who seem to think that this is acceptable for long periods of 'adjustment'. IMO this is owner cruelty and having witnessed one strasser trimmed mare crying out in pain being asked to walk out of her stable, succumbing to laminitis and her owner STILL insisting there wasnt a problem Im afraid i will NOT have my opinion of ANY barefoot trimmer changed.

Ive had many horses over the years, some shod, some not and some who went from one to the other depending on work and the time of year and in all that time I have NEVER had any problem with a farrier looking after my hoofcare.

I have no problem at all with a horse being unshod...if the feet can cope then thats wonderful but to inflict a fashion such as BFT on an animal for the sake of your own whim is appalling.

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This is what we have a problem wth as well. If a horse is footsore it is clearly not coping barefoot and i believe it is cruel to make it so.
either put shoes on or cut back on the work being done.

With barefoot trimmers the consensus seems to be that there is a two year period of adjustment (or was it a year) where the owner should view it as normal that the horse is lame or foot sore.

I dont think thats right personally
 
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