Ian Huntley: Am I alone...

[Jo C]

Firstly I am very sorry about your daughter I can't imagine what it is like to go through that. Secondly I agree wholeheartedly with your views on the justice system in this country, it is the victims and their families that suffer not the criminal.
My thoughts are with you!

 

[barkinghorse]

Not read all the posts but why should he be allowed to be free from guilt and suffering, when the victims familes live this way every day of their lives?
As a tax payer, i am quite happy for my money to go towards keeping him alive so he wakes up every day with what he has done.
Jo

 

[Puppy]

[ QUOTE ]
I was just reading in The Sun that the ward he is in is right beside the childrens ward!!!

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Ah, well it must be true then!

Don't believe everything that you read. The criminal lawyers I know would tell you that prisons in this country are NOT as luxurious as the tabloids make out.

 

[Puppy]

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He had just been taken off suicide watch - which was costing 500 grand per year.

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Ah, and did you read that in the Sun?! Or the Daily Mail??!

Goodness, I can't believe people can be so gullible.

 

[Puppy]

Does it not occur to people that if you allow one suicide attempt in a prison to be successful; if you don't intervene to prevent it; then you are setting a precedent for others.

Do you know what the attempted suicide rate in prisons is like?? Especially young men, first time offenders who may have only nicked a car but can't hack it inside even for a very short sentence. Many of these men DO have the potential to be reformed - one stay in prison is enough to scare them into it (certainly worked for my ex's brother) but by deciding that one prisoner should be left, because of his crime being so much more evil, then you are also condeming many others to death. If you relieve the prisons of the responsibility of taking every step possible to prevent suicide (which must be a policy, not a choice based on the individual) then the death rate in prisons would be sky high, probably leading to fewer convictions, and therefore fewer reformations, and consequently higher crime figures.

I personally would hate to see so many more be left and allowed to take their own lives, and how much their families would suffer, purely for the sake of punishing one man - however evil he is, and however much I feel for the families. Also, a man who wants to dies, so what better punishment than to keep him alive?!

If we'd have strapped him to the chair the day he was convicted then you'd all be saying "Death is too good for him. Keep him alive to make him suffer".

 

[weevil]

Completely agree

 

[Puppy]

I am astounded at how much my attitudes to this sort of thing have been altered in the last year having studied criminal law, and being taught by some criminal lawyers - i.e becoming educated on the topic!!

And only go to get worse, as next year I've picked "sentencing and the penal system" as an option

 

[MissDeMeena]

[ QUOTE ]
There is much truth in the quote 'a society is measured by the treatment of its prisoners.' If we subjected criminals to torture and abuse then I'm sorry but what then distinguishes us from the criminals? Look at Guantanamo Bay, Abu Gharib and look at the consequences of our so-called civilised Western societies treatment of prisoners... Criminals have individual responsibility of course but criminal behaviour is shaped by society so society - that's all of us - also has to hold itself responsible for the actions of its members.

What Ian Huntly did was horrific and he's now serving out his sentence - as it should be. He should be accorded the same treatment as any other human being... when found o/ded medical staff should do their best to save him.

Does he deserve to die? If he tries again and succeeds no one will mourn him, me included but that choice is his and his alone. I absolutely 100% oppose capital punishment - it will be a dark day for this country if its ever reintroduced. Does he feel true remorse? Only he can know that. Is he pure evil? I don't believe in it... because if you are pure evil in the biblical sense that must mean you were born evil and therefore had no choice in the matter. Don't take away his individual responsibility for what he did. No doubt Ian Huntley has some form of severe personality disorder... a combination of nature and nuture. It's a hugely complex psychological area. Dismissing him as evil doesn't help us to understand why people commit such sadistic and violent acts...

Oh and for the people who suggested testing cancer drugs on prisoners... the Nazi's thought that a terribly good idea as well... it started with prisoners and moved on from there...

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree... and just want to add

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[HartleyAlrewas]

I agree with mrdarcy's points.

A large number of people seem to think that a child murderer can never be rehabilitated. That says more about society than it does about the murderer. Everybody is capable of reform, with the right therapy. By demonizing those who have committed horrific crimes, we just push them deeper and deeper into their psychological bunkers where reform is no longer possible.

Yes, of course I am sickened by Huntley's crimes. If somebody murdered my child, I would be unlikely to forgive them. But that is precisely why we don't take the views of a victim's family into account with regards to sentencing, because the family would not be able to set emotions aside.

We need to ask what it was in Huntley's background which triggered this cruel behaviour. If we are going to heal society, we need to focus a little less on punishment and a little more on long-term strategies for prevention. Currently, the will is not there.

http://hartleyalrewas.wordpress.com/ian-huntley-some-essential-facts/

 

[Luci07]

Anyone who thinks that British jails are pleasant and relaxing places to be have obviously never been in one. Do people seriously wish our prisons were like those in Thailand? Try watching the movie Return to Paradise and see if you still think the same.

There is much truth in the quote 'a society is measured by the treatment of its prisoners.' If we subjected criminals to torture and abuse then I'm sorry but what then distinguishes us from the criminals? Look at Guantanamo Bay, Abu Gharib and look at the consequences of our so-called civilised Western societies treatment of prisoners... Criminals have individual responsibility of course but criminal behaviour is shaped by society so society - that's all of us - also has to hold itself responsible for the actions of its members.

What Ian Huntly did was horrific and he's now serving out his sentence - as it should be. He should be accorded the same treatment as any other human being... when found o/ded medical staff should do their best to save him.

Does he deserve to die? If he tries again and succeeds no one will mourn him, me included but that choice is his and his alone. I absolutely 100% oppose capital punishment - it will be a dark day for this country if its ever reintroduced. Does he feel true remorse? Only he can know that. Is he pure evil? I don't believe in it... because if you are pure evil in the biblical sense that must mean you were born evil and therefore had no choice in the matter. Don't take away his individual responsibility for what he did. No doubt Ian Huntley has some form of severe personality disorder... a combination of nature and nuture. It's a hugely complex psychological area. Dismissing him as evil doesn't help us to understand why people commit such sadistic and violent acts...

Oh and for the people who suggested testing cancer drugs on prisoners... the Nazi's thought that a terribly good idea as well... it started with prisoners and moved on from there...

I totally agree with you and the points you have raised. And as for allowing IH to committ suicide, besides the points which you have raised above, he gave away life choices when he committed those horrific crimes.

 

[perfect11s]

[ QUOTE ]
I was just reading in The Sun that the ward he is in is right beside the childrens ward!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, well it must be true then!

Don't believe everything that you read. The criminal lawyers I know would tell you that prisons in this country are NOT as luxurious as the tabloids make out.

Not far off after taking to a customer who had been jailed for drink driving He found it comfortable and
not unplesant way to spend 2 monthes, ...I dont care if huntly takes his own life but hopefully
he has realised what he has done to the familys involved and is suffering personal torment
for it and will live to a ripe old age in jail..

 

[FestiveBoomBoom]

part of me thinks keep him alive, if he is suffering with mental torture and lives in constant fear of the beatings that he probably gets in jail then GOOD! I hope he gets the **** kicked out of him on a regular basis. The other part of me would love to see him die a painful death. That man is pure evil.

 

[YorksG]

I am fascinated by the number of people who feel that 'justice' should be meted out by other prisoners, who may well be in prison for violent crimes!
If the people posting about how pleasant prison is, have ever visited a British Prison then I find it surprising that they find the smell and the noise acceptable.
To those who believe that peadophilia (sp) is rehabable with treatment, please remember for treatment to work the 'patient' has to accept that treatment is needed.
With regard to whether he should be allowed to die or not, I would agree with Puppy, where do we draw the line on this, would it be ok for a 17 year old in prison for non violent offences to kill him/herself? Or for a prisoner on remand (thus still not guilty) who is so traumatised by the experience?
Gut reaction may well be to say let him die, but it would set a dreadful pressident.

 

[Weezy]

Can I point out that this thread has been re-started, and most of it, before the HartleyAlrewas post, was written back in 2006!

 

[Quadro]

Thats what i though Weezy!! Although his ex girlfriend Maxine Carr who supposedly was given a new idendity is now living in a town in Wales with a new boyfriend and child!! and her identity is no secret either.......................

 

[henryhorn]

Me too, why should we keep him alive apart from one thing, if he lives in constant fear and gets attacked, perhaps he might understand how terrified those poor little girls were.
So actually, I think I would rather see him alive..

 

[CorvusCorax]

Quadro, she is apparently living in every town in the UK. No, she REALLY is because a well placed source in the police told me, yada, yada, yada......why on earth do you think she would stay in the UK???

I dealt a girl who tried to take her own life because she was hounded by people who mistakenly thought she was Maxine Carr. Such speculation is very unhelpful.

 

[ladyt25]

I agree that he shouldn't be allowed to take his own life if that is what he wants to do but I am also one of those who feels prisons are too 'easy' these days and, quite rightly often prisoners are better off than other people who are not behind bars and are struggling to feed themselves and find a place to live.

I think someone who has committed a crime (especially a violent crime/planned murder etc) should be imprsioned and have their human rights removed. They should be given the basic requirements for life - basic nutrition and water. They do not need TV, magazines, cigaretts etc etc, they should be punished and often I feel they are not. He cannot be rehabilitated, he was not a child when he committed this disgusting crime, he knew exactly what he was doing and on that basis he should suffer for it.

All those human rights people wind me up - in my opinion you commit murder you forfeit your rights!

I do not beleive he feels remorse - if he was capable of that feeling he wouldn't have carried out the crime in the first place!!! It wasn't an accidental, in the heat of the moment thing, he killed two innocent children!!!

 

[Kenzo]

I've not seen any of this in the news (don't actually buy a paper on regular basis) so I can't really comment properly.

But just based on your question, then yes, if he doesnt want to be here anymore, why the hell should we pay to keep him, he's a murderer and is not safe to be out, I don't see why I should pay my taxes to keep monsters like him off the street.

 

[henryhorn]

I have to say I completely disagree with HartleyAlrewas, not everybody is capable of reform.
Having dealt with a section of society that in some cases were plain wicked, I feel you can't reform them.
I firmly believe people in some cases are born a certain way and nothing anyone does can change that.
I am sick and tired of people saying "Poor criminal, look at the awful childhood they had", and although this must be the case for some, it definitely isn't for all or half of the population would be murderers..
Huntley knew he was doing wrong, or he wouldn't have attempted to keep his actions hidden. As such he needs to be punished and despite his apparent remorse, I think he would always be a danger to children.
Some members of society are too sick/depraved what have you to ever be allowed out to integrate, and I reckon that's the view of the majority of people, not that we should rehabilitate them.
Your point re fixing what made some behave like that is valid, yes, our current methods are a mess; you have parents doing their utmost to teach their offspring how to behave and others who really don't give a damn. What really worries me is in say 20 years' time when the children of the now useless parents have their own kids and unlease them on the world, I hate to think what they will be like...

 

[Maesfen]

I partly agree, but feel his surroundings etc are far too comfortable. Jail should mean a thoroughly unpleasant place with boring food, no tv and discomfort on a grand scale such as in third world jails.
I am glad he didn't die ,the ******* deserves to live with his mind until he's old, the poor kids never got the chance to grow up and their parents must suffer every time the subject appears on the news. I bet they don't want him dead..
I actually like that prison in the USA where they make them wear pink overalls, march them chained up through the city everyday and break rocks in the sun..
At least that way they hate prison, ours are like holiday camps.. swimming pools, basketball, good food and tv..We're mad, criminals need to be punished and suffer..
(and no matter how many posts say my views are extreme, extreme they'll stay!!!)

Spot on HH couldn't agree more. Be a great thing if we could send all the gunge to the States to serve their sentences

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

Whether or not these individuals are remorseful or supposedly rehabilitated, their punishment for destroying a life should be their life destroyed. Taking away their freedom is a start. They should remain incarcerated until their death. Ian Huntley is not insane, he is not suffering a personality disorder or mental illness, he was fully aware of his compulsions and chose to commit the most heinous of crimes.

 

[Minxie]

I do think that if someone wants to die they should be allowed to. Not for any other reason that if there is anything anyone should have any control over is their right to end their own life. I don't mean Huntley in particular or prisoners for that matter, but in general.

 

[Luci07]

I would agree normally but in this instance, he no longer has the right to make that choice..

 

[dibbin]

He deserves the guilt, and should be made to live with it.

 

[brighteyes]

I'd like to see him 'suffer' a bit longer, but in reduced expense surroundings. He isn't worth the money being spent on him. Don't much care what nasty things happen to him, either.

 

[miss_bird]

prisoners should eb made to work to earn their keep, why should i pay their heating bills when half the time i cant afford my own.
Why not use chain gangs, many parts of this country need cleaning up, use the scum that have long sentances to put something back into society

 

[Storminateacup]

I think its a good idea for prisoners like this to have the option to be put to death, perhaps some may think that a painful way is appropriate so that it satisfies the needs of those that wish to see such criminals pay the maximum price in suffering as their victims did.

After all his long term suffering in jail, serves no real purpose and costs the country thousands over the course of perhaps 50 years.

If he elects to choose death maybe he could have the choice of a number of options like beheading with a blunt knife, garrotting, hanging drawing and quartering, maybe even burning, or death by water ordeal, or death by a thousand cuts. That way he would not be seen as "getting off lightly" by choosing to die. There could be an audience too for those that wished to see justice being done. ( And maybe refreshment stands and vendor selling little hanging dolls to commemorate the event)
I say this in jest, for those that think he should be made to suffer if he is to get his wish to die.

Heaven know who they would now get to inflict such options though!

In all honesty, in a civilised society, only the sick and the mentally ill would volunteer for such a job.

Being realistic,lets not forget than any person capable of inflicting what Ian Huntly did to those beautiful girls, is a mad man, a lunatic, or deranged which ever description you choose, but nevertheless seriously mentally ill, and for that reason perhaps he just needs "putting down" quickly and quietly, in the same way as you would a dangerous dog.

Punishing people like this is no deterrent to others, because only the INSANE do this kind of act. Punishing him does not rehabilitate Huntly, plus he would never be returned to a life outside jail so theoretically it TOO serves no purpose.

 

[gemin1eye]

I do have to wonder how many of those saying prisons are cushy have actually ever been inside a real prison. I daresay most of you have got your impressions from the Sun

 

[Shutterbug]

For those of you who think the death penalty is the answer to these crimes, the death penalty does not work - it costs tax payers millions and has been proven not to be a deterrant for murder, with states with the death penalty in America having a higher murder rate than those states without the death penalty and there is enormous room for error in a system awash with mistakes and political corruption. With death you get no second chances, you dont get to say "oops we are awfully sorry for putting you to death for a crime you didnt commit" - its final.

Yes, there are criminals out there whose crimes turn the stomach and we would wish them to die - but its one rule for everyone or no rule at all - and the death penalty is not the answer.

I do think that prison should be a 6x6 cell with a mattress on the floor, no TV, hard labour and standard meals 3 times a day and the only recreation available should be reading of good literature and walking endlessly round in circles in an enclosed area - it should be as unpleasant as hell and something that people would dread being subjected to.