Ideas for a horse that is seriously napping?

charlimouse

charlimouse

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Ever since the snow melted and everywhere defrosted, my horse has decided to start napping. She is rising 6, pretty green, but until the snow hit was honest as the day is long. Now it seems she has had a brain transplant, and has decided to spin, rear and bronk every few steps. If you kick her forwards or smack her she will Chuck you off, and I have now ended up on the floor a few times. Currently I am just sitting it out, then once she stops I tactfully use my leg to ask her to go forwards, sometime she goes, other times she tears, spins bronks again. I have tried turning her in a small circle, but this makes her worse. I have also done some groundwork with her, and whilst she is good at this, I don't feel it is helping the ridden problems. She is also fine on the lunge, so I always start her on the lunge to make sure she is thinking forwards. Today she has been the worst she has ever been, resulting in her walking backwards out of the arena on 2 legs. I lunged her again, but as soon as I got on her she did the same. In the end I compromised by having somebody lunge her with me on her back.

Teeth, back, tack all fine, and she is looking and feeling well in herself so pretty certain It's not pain related. Any body got any ideas in what I can do next?
 
Haha! Sounds familiar, except mine isn't really napping, she's just wild!!

I would cut out all hard feed, and work her as much as physically possible tbh! Lunge for a good 2mins before getting on, with lots and lots of transitions etc to get her 100% on your aids. Mine is incapable of doing a full lap of the school in canter without doing flying changes/hunmping/running off with me, and is in season again!! I reckon the cold to milder weather is messing with her hormones.
 
She is already off all hard feed, but I'm giving her some horse first relax me. She is the same hacking out, except she makes sure she dumps you, then takes herself home! I never let her get away with it, even when the last couple of times I've been taken out on the leadrein on her! But the problem is the behaviour doesn't seem to be getting better.
 
I had a mare that would rear vertical if she didn't want to go forward. Then she would leap and buck, I'd just get my reins back and she would leap again.

I use to spin my mare around and around until she gave up, which was normally about twice. Although this made her walk on a bit it didn't really solve it.

One day I went for a hack with my sister, the mare would follow all day however I said I would take the lead. We got about two steps before she realised she was in front! I said to my sister that we will be here until she leads.

I just made her stand, then would ask her forward quietly. If she span I would make her stand again then ask her forward. No fuss, no shouting, no smacking or kicking, just asking her forward gently. It took me about 35 minutes to get her to walk on (we were on a quiet bridle path) you know, after this she never did it again.

Good luck, if she didn't Knapp before it's probably because she's had time off due to the snow and you have spoilt her rest and play time :D
 
Equifeast Cool, Calm and Collected work well with my napping horse. The only way a horse can nap is if its not going fowards and off your leg enough - so i would suggest lots and lots of canter around your arena in a forward seat, get off her back and send her forwards. Ride with two sticks and spurs on and wack/jab her hard as soon as she gives any inclination of even starting to nap. Don't worry about outline or what either of you look like, at this stage she needs to be moving forwards quickly and responsivly. Do not do any transitions and no walking - canter is best with some short bits of fast trot work. Once she realises shes not going to get away with not working then she will soon calm down again.

I bought a horse that was a massive napper (obviously not known when i bought him and seller refused to take him back), to the point where i could harldy get on in the school as he would stand straight up. As soon as i got on him i literally cantered him forwards straight away, round and round until i felt him start to listen, then it was back to trot and doing some circles, as soon as he came back at me i gave him a quick jab with my spurs back up with a schooling whip. Also sometimes had someone on the floor with a lunge whip to send him forwards.

Out hacking he did it with our without other horses and i felt it was safer if i was on my own as he was the same either way. I (in the end) hacked him out in draw reins as it stopped him standing up on his hindlegs. He soon learnt.

Might sound horrible, but its equally horrible when they come over backwards on you. Mine was also 6 when he went through it.

ETA - i had a lot of help from very good dressage trainers with my horse aswell.
 
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Could you try long reining her out of the yard with the lunge whip in hand? to try and make her go forward on her own without being led, and without putting yourself in danger.

Where did she first do it? hacking or the school? If it was first done hacking, she may now be doing it in the school just because she can!
 
Is she any different when you long rein her out or the yard? or perhaps do this for while and give it a go with someone following behind you with a lung whip.

Has she become a bit clingy with any of the other horses on the yard while she's been out of work with the long periods of bad weather perhaps? maybe sweeten her up and take her out with another horse till she gets back into a working frame of mind.

Could she be coming into season perhaps? along with not been worked as much due to the snow like you said therefore conributing to her nappyness?

Has she changed shape with her weight at all, if she's a sensetive type perhaps something could be niggling her in the saddle area once weight is on her back?
 
Just what our rising 6 year old gelding is like just now.
He's had a very easy 6 weeks or so with the weather, and now can't see the point of behaving or working.
He broncs and bunny hops and naps a bit, whatever he feels like.
We're just making sure he is going forward like everyone is saying. Trotting on very actively on hacks and plenty of sharp transitions to get him listening and not thinking up ways to be naughty!
Honestly, I'd say this is just a baby phase and they'll get through it. Be patient.
When our lad acts up, my son just sits it out then gives him a pat and trots on. Luckily he's stuck on so far...Roll on some better weather.
 
as described above, the 'sitting it out and then asking very nicely' tactic is usually v successful.
if she's as good as gold on the lunge, but then starts acting up the moment you get on, i would suspect she's uncomfortable - either her back or the saddle, whatever a saddler might say. But if she's fine with you riding her on the lunge, then it sounds like a "shan't" issue, in which case, waiting her out is the answer imho.
 
Mine went nappy at 6, it was really hard, but i had to just keep sending him forward and keep the pressure on, he soon found it easier not to nap, than to nap! I had issues going down our drive, so swapped to getting on in the field and cantering him straight round a couple of times, then straight out the gate and down the drive, whilst he was "thinking forwards"

Its so hard when you are out/on the road though and did have to be very patient but persistant sometimes!

If he refused to go forwards past something and was napping home/to another horse, i'd often spin him round and make him go past it backwards, he soon learnt its much easier to go forwards!

The joys of horses, stick it out, sure it'll pass!

Oh i too thought it might be everything from his backing being out to his neck (because of something i read!) had everyone out, it was nothing, but it did make me put the pressure on knowing that!
 
Agree completly with Tempi. I have one who is like this, first started the rearing at the beginning of his 6th year, he would just bronk before that until he realised that wouldn't work he then tried the bronk then nap and rear. I literally had to just be extremly tough. like tempi as soon as i was on i had to move straight off very positively, normally canter and do that until he felt like he was moving off my leg. Then back to trot and i could gradually ask for correct work. If i felt like he was coming back at me straight away he would get a very large smack behind the saddle. Out hacking i could get to the top of the drive and he would start to nap so as soon as he would get there i would actively trot him.

I know this doesnt sound like a very good idea ie no warm up but having had the horse fall over on the road twice through rearing (luckily not on top off me but to the side) and once in the school and once at a competition (because i didn't warm him up in this way) It was the only thing that worked, he got to the point where you could walk out and when he maybe had a slight backwards moment would just need abit of a boot and he would happily move forward. He has had some time of over winter and he is napping abit again but now it can be controlled with the same routine. This horse has had every health check he is purely a stubborn little monkey, show him a jump and it's a competly different matter although he did try the napping at the beginning of his first XC but once moving he jumped everything and hasn't napped since while jumping.

Hope this helps. O and use a neck strap and hold on if you do have to give abit of a tap.
 
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mine went through this as a 5yr old ,must have been an early starter ;)

i think they are all different and what might work for one won't for another and so you might have to try everyones ideas :)

when my mare was napping i had to sit it out calmly and just wait until she'd chucked all her toys about then quietly ask again ,this eventually worked although she would start again with a different rider ;)

this didn't work with my gelding but a bl****y good hiding did (although i wouldn't try this with yours :D ) it was a last resort and he was getting dangerous ,of course he got lots of good boys soon as he stopped his tantrum

another mare i rode was so bad i long reined her for weeks which worked really well with her (she was 17hh and very sharp )

i think you will know your self what might be worth trying with your horse as you know her best but whatever you choose be consistant with your reaction so its black n white yes/no for her.
oh and if your going to try long reining try to lend/get some leather driving reins as you can if needed give a good slap with just a flick of your arm and it saves you needing to carry a whip as you will need to move/direct the reins really quickly and a whip just gets in the way

good luck
 
Was her routine (aside from not being ridden) changed at all during the snow? I only ask as she sounds much like a mare I used to own, and looking back knowing what I know now, I'd put money on her having had ulcers. Just wondering if yours was in more/more stressed/less forage/insert other random thing here and could perhaps have ulcers if she was so good before? FWIW the horse I had diagnosed with them looked incredibly well and showed none of the classic symptoms - his were as bad as they get.
 
If this is repeating what someone else has said I`m sorry but I havent read thro all the posts. I know that you said that teeth back etc done but I thought this with my mare as I`d had a `back person` out to her but the problem had obviously been missed. This is because there are people that are **** hot with one set of problems but not so hot with other parts of the body. The reason I am saying this is the fact that she was good before the snow. It is very possible that she may have slipped or lost a leg and has some sort of injury up inside the hind legs or somewhere else. This is something similar that has happened to me. So now I have 4 different people to do my horses and that is because they are great at what they know but they can`t solve every issue or injury. I will only have one of them out when I need her for my mares psoas muscle as she has had issues with this twice and after I`d had another person out and they didnt `fix` the problem I decided to try another person. I have another lady who specialises in the nerves. And another who is very good with my other horses shoulders. So I`d have another different person to check over her body if I were you. It just sounds like something has happened to make her react like this esp as she is worse in small circles and with weight on her.
Good Luck..
 
Hi, I am sorry to hear you are having problems with your mare!
The advice you have already been given is very good, I just thought I would add that for the best way to tackle the napping you need to work out WHY she is doing it (identify the type of nap/trigger)..
Is she napping solely in response to the leg- do you find that the leg works in the opposite way it should? Then you need to look at how she is in the contact, is she very light in the contact or try to run through the hand at all- even as she spins if dives strongly down either or both reins this can help suggest how best tackle the individual case.
If napping is massively out of character then personally I would be inclined to think there is something amiss, I only say this because IMO if she is a little nappy by design you would have seen elements of it in her character before now - even if she has never napped before - I.e if confronting something scary or new first reaction is to stop etc?
Lastly, you need to critically honest with yourself- when she IS going, is her average (not when going amazing or being really naughty either) way of going truly forward and is she very good and accepting of the contact :)
Good luck with her though, napping can be very disheartening!!
 
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What is the magnesium level expected in the UK this time of year?
Spookiness can be a symptom of low mag levels.
Maybe a week or three of magnesium supplement in feed will help?
Also, strangely, 1tb of plain salt a day may help as well.
 
I would be wary of taking on a mare with whips/sticks etc as in my experience they are even more likely to down tools and instead of concentrating on what you want they concentrate on fighting you.

Millie went through a stage of this and what worked for me was breaking down the nap.

If given the choice most horses will just stop going forwards and stand still and all of the explosive rearing/running backwards etc is a reaction to when the rider jams the legs/whip on.

My breakthrough was getting the stand still part and removing the automatic spin/running backwards that Millie had learnt to follow that up with in a split second.

Next was to wait until she either let a big breath out or I felt her weight shift forwards and then ask her to take a step diagonally, not straight forwards.

Lastly, I carried a leadrope instead of a stick which sounds a bit Parelli-esk but works very well for mareish mares who resent the stick.
I could give her a good thud with the leadrope and she went forwards off that but even a light flick with a whip and her reaction was to jam the brakes on.

After sitting through this for a few weeks she came out the other side and was nice and forwards again.
 
Given that she is a mare, & given the time of year /variable weather /increasing day length, it is more than likely that her hormones are in a complete mess, especially as her behaviour previously was good.

The first thing I would do would be to chat to your vet re possibly trying her on regumate ( possibly with a scan of her ovaries/uterus, or just a rectal exam. before). You just might find you have a reformed character ( & your answer!).

Ovarian activity can cause significant behaviour changes with or without external signs of pain. I had a mare who was competing at PN/N level happily, but when coming into season(often before "showing") would decide not to jump a single pole! Ended up on regumate....problem solved!!!.
 
I had a horse that really napped and one thing that worked was when she was bad I would make her stand and turn her head as far as I could in the direction I wanted to go and then just sit there, no kicking, just sit there. Have her nose touching your boot. And you wait and wait and then she would let out a big sigh and walk off in the right direction with no napping. The length of time I had to wait each time reduced and it meant I wasn't going to have an accident.

I think it sort of 'reset' her brain.

The other thing is that you have to be quick, as soon as she thinks about napping you try to stop her. They always bring their necks up and back at you before they nap. As soon as she does that growl or boot her, don't give her a chance to go fully nappy.
 
On a similar note to Millietiger, with a previous opionated mare, I found a "wipwop" as advocated by Richard Maxwell was fantastic. Kicking and sticks just spiralled into a fight but this was like "oooh, what was that, lets go forward" sort of an action.
Basically cut clip off lead rope, tie knot in middle you can put round wrist then use by waving over flanks one side to other, sure theres a better description somewhere!
Also the stop, wait it out and just get off, walk a bit forward, get back on technique. Anything to avoid the brainblown spin, leap, plunge but still get your way really!
 
charlimouse said:
Ever since the snow melted and everywhere defrosted, my horse has decided to start napping. She is rising 6, pretty green, but until the snow hit was honest as the day is long. Now it seems she has had a brain transplant, and has decided to spin, rear and bronk every few steps. If you kick her forwards or smack her she will Chuck you off, and I have now ended up on the floor a few times. Currently I am just sitting it out, then once she stops I tactfully use my leg to ask her to go forwards, sometime she goes, other times she tears, spins bronks again. I have tried turning her in a small circle, but this makes her worse. I have also done some groundwork with her, and whilst she is good at this, I don't feel it is helping the ridden problems. She is also fine on the lunge, so I always start her on the lunge to make sure she is thinking forwards. Today she has been the worst she has ever been, resulting in her walking backwards out of the arena on 2 legs. I lunged her again, but as soon as I got on her she did the same. In the end I compromised by having somebody lunge her with me on her back.

Teeth, back, tack all fine, and she is looking and feeling well in herself so pretty certain It's not pain related. Any body got any ideas in what I can do next?
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Hi Charlimouse
I just wanted to know if you finally got your horse to stop napping? Mine has started to dangerously nap, seriously dangerous. He's dumped people, backed into barbed wire, spins, broncs, rears....the only think I've found help is the turning really tight until he submits and breathes and then we walk forward but it's still going.

So i was wondering if your horse did eventually stop napping and how long it took to fix? I'm at the stage where I'm thinking I have a dangerous horse on my hands and am considering selling him :(

Your case sounds a bit similar to mine so thought Id check what worked for you!
 
When I was young nappy horses where a specially of mine I think the sitting out don't enage with method works well just point them where you want to go and sit it out ask them now and again then sit it out my longest was six hours to get off the yard but it cured her and to my knowledge she never did it again ( I had to get someone to hold her while I went for a pee).
You have to read them do they need correction or boring into giving it up it goes without saying you need to be in the right location to do this.
 
I ended up selling her in the end. I sent her to a pro to event, and they pretty much said she didn't want to do it, they got her round BE100, but it wasn't comfortable or pretty. She has actually gone to a good friend of mine and is now doing well BD.
 
charlimouse said:
She is already off all hard feed, but I'm giving her some horse first relax me. She is the same hacking out, except she makes sure she dumps you, then takes herself home! I never let her get away with it, even when the last couple of times I've been taken out on the leadrein on her! But the problem is the behaviour doesn't seem to be getting better.
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Err, you are letting her off with it of she is dumping you and pixxelling off home. This is not napping, [well maybe it is], she is just "in control"
I suggest you get a strong and more experienced rider to sort her out.
 
Ok thanks for letting me know. Goldenstar, with my boy sitting it out isn't an option because he bucks and rears so ferociously I can't keep him still. The only thing that works is pulling his head into my foot so he can't budge and wait until he licks, chews and sighs then I move on.

Unfortunately its not just putting the breaks on! Just trying to figure out how long I can keep trying until enough is enough!
 
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