Ideas for sending a lazy pony forwards

[loopyloop]

He is a very laid back beast, and I wouldn't want to change that, but he can be hard work...I'm used to him but if other people ride they give him back after 5 mins, out of breath and saying they're exhausted!

Hahahaha!!!!

I'm sure I lasted longer than that............please tell me I did, otherwise I have some severe issues and need to get a grip!!!!

I had to have a Murphy induced nap before we went out Sat night!!

 

[ngrace]

Someone might have said this already, sorry I haven't read every page..but what do your sharers do with him and how do they ride and deal with the lazyness? Because if your trying to school him to come off the leg, it simply wont work if they are not giving him the same message. He needs consistent schooling so he knows exactly what is asked, sounds like your doing fine but they might be undoing all your work.
Might be worth going back to basics, teaching him to go from halt to walk with just a squeeze, and moving on up from there. I saw someone explain a technique that worked for me (on a dressage DVD) - he said; from halt, squeeze gently and quickly, if he doesnt go forwards immediatley, lift your leg off (exaddurate this) and give a pony club kick (he didnt explain what to do if pony then doesnt go forwards!) Repeat this untill he goes forward from the lift of the leg - he will learn to anticipate the pc kick, dont follow through with the kick if he goes forward. Carry on untill he goes from a squeeze, or just a lift of the leg. It worked with a lazy horse I was riding that had become dead to the leg from previous riders.
And you say you ride in spurs, I dont know how you use them, but I have found its most effective to squeeze, then spur immediatley if they dont go off the leg straight away - eventually I barely have to use them on that horse, except for new lateral work.

Hope this helps, if you tried all this already, then sorry, ignore!

 

[ngrace]

Oh and go hunting, clip him out fully, dont bother with the whip if it doesnt work - just another thing for him to ignore!

 

[MissHocusPocus]

Get him going nice and forward on the lunge first, did this with a horse I know and worked well ? x

 

[Natch]

Murphy is more than a little lazy, and basically unless he specifically wants to do something he does the absolute minimum.

He is fed molasses, oil, and Propell Plus (I call this his go-go juice!). In the winter he is fed oats. All of this helps.

If he ignores my leg he is given a very firm smack. On a bad day he ignores the smack. Growling at him works sometimes. So for example, we had a successful jumping session today - but I had to use the whip a lot, and shout and growl at him a lot.

He does a mixture of jumping, hacking and a little schooling. He has lovely sharers who have loads of fun with him too - and adore him, so he is pretty pampered.

Just wondering if anyone has any creative ideas to get him moving? I feel like I am smack smack smack with the whip at the moment.

And it sounds like you are too. If I told you to walk to the end of the road and back, and you didn't do it immediately so I smacked your bum then you did it, then just go and run to the post box, (smack), run for a long time (smack - no response, whack with spurs, two whips, smack harder etc...)... You're not going to be looking forward to seeing me, and are going to get pretty fed up of me and blase about the leg and whip too.

You're involved in a downwards spiral battle with an unmotivated animal who is not only a lot stronger than you, but who very intelligent and whose current favourite hobby is inventing ways to get out of doing the boring stuff. Not a happy prospect (I know, I've been there myself!)

Compare it with a situation where I say in an enthusiastic voice, "Hey!, you know what would be really fun to do today? Let's go for a walk. Come on! That's it, good job! Now how about we play hop skip jump to the post box, and we have a glass of wine when we get there. Goood! Here's that wine. I wonder if you can run for 5 minutes without me chasing you. Let's find out, there's a massage from a hot guy at the end of the route for you!! Well done you, that was great! etc.. You're going to be more willing to do things in the second scenario, aren't you?

So find out what motivates him (aside from food), and really work on yourself to think and project positive intentions. Regardless of what you think about Natural horsemanship, when its done well the horses react to little more than the handler's thinking intention. Why? Because the handler has spent the time learning what positively motivates that horse and has developed their own focus and intention in such a way as it is clear and congruent to the horse. I'm not suggesting you take up NH (although you could do worse things...) but try that mindset. Be silly, play, laugh at how foolish you feel if he ignores you and try something else. I think clicker training would work really well for you with Murphy, and its a really cheap thing to try out - get him thinking forwards, and show him that you're actually saying something that is worth listening to.

It's like eating a bar of chocolate! all this does is give him a sugar high then he's burnt out! Go-go juice?? You're on a fast track to laminitis & liver damage.

s' a bit of an exaggeration there. For a start I don't even think the OP has mentioned how much she feeds.

keep him in all the time and don't overdo it on the hay, just give him enough to keep him entertained
just feed oats
ride every day and get him as fit as you can, if you're giving him a few days off keep him in and get him brewing

I think we can safely ignore this post.

Trying to think of more ideas for you:
Lazy ponies are generally REALLY REALLY CLEVER. Set up challenges for him where he has to slow down and use his brain more. That will get him thinking. Ask him to sidepass over a pole, weave in and out of cones, open a gate without taking your hand off the gate, do caveletti - look up horse agility and western trail classes for ideas - the more he is thinking the more motivated he will be.
Let him have more responsibility. Try working towards bridleless riding. Keep the bridle on at first. Let him show you how smart he is and he will have more fun and want to do more.
Do the opposite of what he expects. Ask him to go slower than he wants to go. See if you can get him to move only one foot at a time. Wait for him to ask you to speed up. (This works really well on my mare).
Get someone to video you riding to find out if you are nagging without realising it. If you're in trot, it should be his job to maintain the trot, not yours. Make sure you're not doing rise sit squeeze rise sit squeeze without noticing.
Use a flappy string to send him forwards instead of a schooling whip - either one of those Monty Roberts rope things that I can't type because the computer thinks it's a naughty word??? or a savvy string which you can get off ebay and flap it from side to side, touching him behind your legs (hopefully that makes sense).

*like*

I agree completely - he is mega clever. He gets the measure of his rider instantly - put a little child on him whose legs don't even reach the bottom of the saddle flaps and he responds to their tiniest kick or pull on the reins.

There you go then - its not a battle of wills, or the child wouldn't be able to get him to move. It could be his generous nature and wish to look after little children, (clever, gooood pony!) but I've been reading something interesting this morning which I think also applies here. What do children do differently to those of us who have been around a bit longer? They mostly don't have the cynical attitude that comes with life experience. They probably think with a light heart and are definately more focussed than we are unless we try. Have a go and being a child with him - it'll be fun and could be suprisingly rewarding too

 

[Chestnut mare]

Lol, murphy sounds like my girl. Totally dead to the leg if u use the whip she grunts and carries on at the same pace. If u give her a harder whack she mites grunt and buck (least that's a reaction lol) or if u give her a pony club kick she will trot for a pace and then go back to instant plod! Most of the time she feels like she's fling backwards lol. I think she is bored....we only hack don't have a school on the yard and I have no transport to go anywhere different. If we trot or canter on a hack she is fine. She just settles into a plod when we are walking. I feed her blue chip lami lite with a handful of hi-fi lite. She lives out through the summer which is when she's at her worst. Any adjustment to her diet results in a very spooky pony but no more forward going. The only thing that does help is flapping the reins from side to side on get neck. Also running the whip through the trees as you walk past the rustling makes her walk on lol. It's frustrating isn't it you come back sweating and the horse is quite relaxed and happy lol.

 

[bex1984]

Hahahaha!!!!

I'm sure I lasted longer than that............please tell me I did, otherwise I have some severe issues and need to get a grip!!!!

I had to have a Murphy induced nap before we went out Sat night!!

ha ha you did last slightly longer than that! I did quite like your: "Um. Am I used to faster horses or is this trot really, really slow?!"

 

[bex1984]

Get him going nice and forward on the lunge first, did this with a horse I know and worked well ? x

Murphy cannot comprehend lungeing. It's an interesting sight, and generally requires full body armour.

 

[bex1984]

ngrace - I am too wimpy to hunt him! He is a little jekyl and hyde and I know he would love it and be mega strong. I am however working on getting a girl at the yard to take him

Naturally - thank you, I completely understand. I am probably the silliest 27 year old in the world. The kids at the yard recruit me to play pony games and bomb round the field with them because they know I'll always join in! I really do try to keep murphy's life fun, and once he is switched on and and sped up he seems to enjoy himself - it's just the getting going that's the problem. I have a clicker anyway (total failure with the dog - bloofy terrierist just tries to eat the clicker) so will look into that - Murphy really responds to learning new things.

This is an example of typical Murphy behaviour: I pull him up alongside mounting block to get on, say 'stand, good lad.' I step onto mounting block, he swings his bum away. I say grrr bad murphy. I put him back where he was, step onto block, bum swings away. I pick up whip, tap him on the bum, grrr bad Murphy. I put him back, step onto mounting block, he stands stock still and I get on, make a fuss, good boy Murphy. But he KNOWS that everytime he messes around he gets a tap on the bum - yet always waits for the tap on the bum before he'll behave?!

RE: my sharers, they are beginners and therefore don't ride him the way I do, so to an extent I can't expect his schooling to be consistent. In all honesty I'd rather have a happy pony with lovely sharers (they love him, he loves them) than a perfectly schooled one - I'm more than happy with that as a compromise.

 

[bex1984]

Could he also be a tad bored of your school/your rubbish hacking?

Can you do something different for a change? Can you take him somewhere else - do you have transport? Perhaps take him hunting?

No transport unfortunately although I do sometimes gets lifts to lovely hacking with my friend who kindly takes me - he loves that! We're off to a show on Sunday though, should cheer him up

 

[Luci07]

interesting posts... also the comment about giving 1 feed of oats per day - again not good advice! better to feed smaller feeds and twice a day. 1 large feed a day is much harder for a horse to digest.

Sounds like you have been through the mill. Have to say Propel has ALWAYS worked for anything a bit stuffy previously, in fact it works so well that the only horse I could safely feed it to was actually eventing at the time. Everything else just went into turbo through the roof mode!.

I had a backwards thinking horse and feed didn't help as he would happily eat up the higher energy feeds, and then become a g*t to ride. What did work with him (eventually) was the "tap up and don't hold on" approach recommended earlier. In addition, he did a lot of dressage "tricks" such as half pass, shoulder in etc I call them tricks as strictly speaking he wasn't totally at the stage to be trying this but anything a bit different to keep him thinking would really help. He also was rewarded quite frequently with a stretch and walk out and then pick up and off again. If you didn't mix up his work he would just go into robot mode.

As for the bucking when tapped up - yes he used to do that. Chickens answer. My instructor at the time (very tall), simply sat on my horse (16.2), and kept tapping him and moving him forward till he gave up bucking. Its hard to give definative advice - I never really smacked my old horse old, it was definately a smart tap to get his attention and I also rode in spurs as well.

 

[Luci07]

ngrace - I am too wimpy to hunt him! He is a little jekyl and hyde and I know he would love it and be mega strong. I am however working on getting a girl at the yard to take him

Naturally - thank you, I completely understand. I am probably the silliest 27 year old in the world. The kids at the yard recruit me to play pony games and bomb round the field with them because they know I'll always join in! I really do try to keep murphy's life fun, and once he is switched on and and sped up he seems to enjoy himself - it's just the getting going that's the problem. I have a clicker anyway (total failure with the dog - bloofy terrierist just tries to eat the clicker) so will look into that - Murphy really responds to learning new things.

This is an example of typical Murphy behaviour: I pull him up alongside mounting block to get on, say 'stand, good lad.' I step onto mounting block, he swings his bum away. I say grrr bad murphy. I put him back where he was, step onto block, bum swings away. I pick up whip, tap him on the bum, grrr bad Murphy. I put him back, step onto mounting block, he stands stock still and I get on, make a fuss, good boy Murphy. But he KNOWS that everytime he messes around he gets a tap on the bum - yet always waits for the tap on the bum before he'll behave?!

.

Missed this - Old horse used to to do that. Instructor told me to get off the block and make my horse back up 3 or 4 steps then walk forward. Took a couple of tries but every time he did the old "swing backside out" I got down and made him go backwards then walk straight back to the block (and making him step backwards in a straight line). It worked and he stopped doing it! which was brilliant because getting on at shows/away for training was a nightmare. Mine was a bright bunny and he never did again...!

 

[bex1984]

I think half my problem is that I ran out of propell plus this week! We're trying NAF EnerG as of yesterday but may go back to propell.

The bucking isn't a problem - he does not do purposefully dislodging his rider so they're not nasty bucks. It shows he's awake!

 

[loopyloop]

ha ha you did last slightly longer than that! I did quite like your: "Um. Am I used to faster horses or is this trot really, really slow?!"

Only due to a ten minute gap in between, haha!

I was sooo very confused, I didn't want to back up my leg and he be like hang on, I'm going as fast as I can!!!

Nothing like a native pony to prove to you that you can't ride.

What a dude!!

 

[bex1984]

Like I said - he overtook 16hh TBs doing super fast trot last week - not that's his idea of fun! I think he might have been trying to show you up!

 

[Sarah1]

It's like eating a bar of chocolate! all this does is give him a sugar high then he's burnt out! Go-go juice?? You're on a fast track to laminitis & liver damage.

I would feed him good hay, speedibeet & chaff and thats it. Then, get on him and like him like you mean it girl!

All this growling business is pointless, send him forward with your leg and seat.

to quote someone on HHO "ride him like you stole him"...

Agree. You could try some of the roller ball spurs but if he ignores your aids they'll probably make little difference other than you won't feel like your legs are going to drop off when you finish!

Don't 'squeeze, squeeze, squeeze' him try a good sharp kick but make sure if he does shoot forwards you don't jab him in the mouth and/or stop him, let him go for a few strides then ask him to slow his pace - each time he ignores your aids give him a good pony club kick, you need to say 'oi cloth ears, I'm asking you to move it, move it, move it and I mean RIGHT NOW!!!!!'

Apologies if I'm repeating something someone else has said I'm speed reading!

 

[Dancing Queen]

try going back to basics - bareback - develop your seat and leg power. i wouldnt use spurs personally - invest in a good instructor and back up your leg command with the whip (down the shoulder i find tends to have the most effect).


BTW i would go anywhere if you dangled jahn barrowman in front of me! Cpt Jack xxxx

 

[spotty_pony]

Get him out Hunting! He will love it!

 

[hunteress]

Get him out Hunting! He will love it!

Totally agree take him hunting !

 

[Ella19]

Take him hunting its perfect timing!

 

[Janah]

Sounds like my boy. Wait 'til autumn and cooler weather always makes him easier to motivate.

So laid back in summer, nearly horizontal!

 

[tallyho!]

s' a bit of an exaggeration there. For a start I don't even think the OP has mentioned how much she feeds.

Like all you say there naturally... but I am not exaggerating about liver & lami.

Despite how much you feed, it is WHAT you feed that is in question here.

We know now that lami is not just a grass issue. There are many factors. Metabolic Dysfunction, Insulin Resistance.... etc.... Over-supplementing can trigger a cascade of factors which eventually lead to laminitis or liver damage. The more I look into it, the more I think overfeeding vits & mins is a terrible thing to blindly do.

You need to KNOW what you are supplementing by forage testing, or else, don't bother or you are doing more damage than good - particularly in leisure horses.

Propell is super high in iron - which grass & hay are rich in anyway unless too rich in manganese or zinc. Plus all the other minerals.

I would never feed that to a pleasure horse.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

I have a horse like this (with a hidden streak of devilment, if you look hard enough for it!). I honestly just thought she was a lazy old so and so (which she is) but I sent her away to be schooled and she is a changed horse. The pro riders have no emotional attachement to the horses they have in for schooling and, whether we like it or not, we have. If they say move, they expect the horse to move. I'm not saying for one second that they hammer them (in fact, the jockey who schooled mine never really did anything more than flick the whip) but it's all about timing and thinking forward. It was a revelation to me. I'm not being critical of your riding necessarily but there's a world of difference between a leisure rider and a gifted pro. I'm telling you, get that horse sat on by the right rider and it'll be knitting for you! Then once that knot is firmly unpicked, you'll be able to ride without breaking a sweat. Watch this too, from about 2 mins onwards http://www.yourhorse.co.uk/Improve-...Tim-Stockdale-at-Your-Horse-Live-2009-Part-3/ (bottom vid, part 3).

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Then watch Tim get it not so right! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0mSbz6cowE This is honestly one of the funniest vids I've seen (the music helps) but it shows what a pony club kick and determination to go forwards looks like!

 

[Natch]

Tallyho, thanks, I know a thing or two about lami and vit and mineral balance meself, and think every horse owner should supplement according to their forage rather than the broad spectrum stuff I do agree. However I'm not aware of much evidence to suggest over supplementation of minerals or mollases in the diet leads to liver damage, and I do think the amounts fed will make a big difference. Interedting to hear propel has fe in it, I know nothing about the product. To supplement fe in a (sports horse type?) product sounds like a marketing gimick to me based on half facts

Bex, I was thinking but wasnt going to mention it, but now the subject has bern raised I would recommend getting his forage analysed. Lack of energy can be a symptom of an unbalanced diet.

 

[bex1984]

Bex, I was thinking but wasnt going to mention it, but now the subject has bern raised I would recommend getting his forage analysed. Lack of energy can be a symptom of an unbalanced diet.

I'm sure this has something to do with it, as he really has to be on restricted grazing 24/7 until October at least, otherwise he puts on soooo much weight. He will pick up in winter when he's in overnight with loads of hay

Interesting about the Propell. I started feeding it after he was very run down last year, following what we thought was an eye infection cause by the flies, but the vet later thought was probably a virus judging by the impact it had on him. He had it for about 3 months, then I stopped feeding it, and started again this year when he showed similar signs of looking a bit run-down and it definitely makes a difference. he is fed the quantity recommended for a leisure horse.

RE the mollasses, he is fed a handful a day of Super Molichop (most people don't even realise it's mollassed and juts think it's chaff).

The oil is fed on the advice of my vet, my instructor, and a very well respected equine nutritionist, who is an expert in obesity and its related issues.

 

[bex1984]

Totally agree take him hunting !

eeeek I don't think I'd survive - I'm a numpty novice!! for all his laziness, I know he'd love it and we might end up more than a little out of control...

 

[PolarSkye]

Not read all of the replies so please do excuse any possible redundancy . . . but I'd be getting him to work veeeeeeery, veeeeeeeery, slooooooooooooowly - getting him to really listen to you and have to think hard about where to put his feet - in walk at first and then in trot. Don't let him fall on his forehand - or lean on your hands. Really try and ride him "up together" but keep it sloooooooooooow. I promise you, it works! In addition, really try and keep him moving in shapes around the school - ride some shoulder in, leg yield up the 3/4 line, demi voltes, quarter turns, rein back - anything to keep him moving and thinking and help him supple up. Lots and lots and lots of short, sharp transitions - direct and progressive. Try and get him to go off the lightest aids possible . . . you've probably heard the old adage that lazy horses need to be ridden off very light aids, while hot horses should be ridden with the leg very much "there."

Did I see you mention that he may be feeling hot - how is his weight/condition and does he need clipping? Feeling hot and sweaty possibly won't help. What does he like doing? What does he enjoy? Does he perk up and become more forward if you are doing anything in particular? Could you use that and school or jump him in that environment?

Lastly, what happens if you shorten up your stirrups, come up off his back and send him on for a good blast of gallop?

P

 

[bex1984]

He generally can't be bothered to gallop unless following another horse that is already galloping - we did manage that last week in the fields and it was great. I try to get off his back regularly in the school and try to open him up a bit. He likes to trot, and forgets that canter is a forward pace - he actually has a whole other 'proper canter' but he hides it well

He is a bit awkward because he has days where he is excited by jumping, and other days (usually after I've spent half an hour setting up a course...) where he just can't be bothered with jumping but wants to prance around in an outline looking pretty.

he does need clipping, just hoping to hold off for a few more weeks! his weight is pretty good (for his type!), bit more to come off but he's only about 20kg over his 'ideal'.

Going to try going very slow - think that might blow his brain - in a good way! I did go through a phase of wlaking him for so long that it bored him and he wanted to go faster - that worked!

 

[AmyMay]

Not read all the replies, so sorry if I'm repeating - but have you ever hunted him? That will definately get his blood up! It turned my previous little 'No' mare in to a 'yes, yes, yes' one!!!