Ideas needed: trimming pony with hind-limb ataxia

spookypony

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A penny for your thoughts!

First, the history:
My companion pony, ca 13hh, ca 20yo, grey with melanomas, has some ataxia in her hind end, accompanied by bladder control problems. This first appeared about 2 months ago (though we thought she was in season at the time), suddenly worsened 6 weeks ago, and for now appears to be stable. The veterinary consensus is that the most likely cause is an internal growth interfering with her nerves/spine. She was going to be put to sleep about 5 1/2 weeks ago, but she seemed to be coping so well that the vet agreed that we would continue to observe, and that she'll be put down if she declines further/shows any signs of struggling. She is on a low dose of danilon (lately bute). So far, she seems stable, continues to be able to trot, canter, and get up and down to roll/sleep with no problems, and her skin also looks fine. Her walk is still very wonky. She hasn't improved, and there is no expectation that she will improve, but neither does she appear any worse. She appears bright and happy, has excellent appetite, and doesn't appear to be in any pain. She's not reluctant to move around, participating happily in Mad Canter Time in the field, and trotting over when she sees me coming with the feed buckets. She still has ataxia, and she still has bladder control problems (she can urinate when she wants to, but also urinates involuntarily).

The concerns are two-fold: one is to do with the bladder, and a possible accumulation of crystals. That in itself might force our decision, and will be monitored by the vet. We're addressing the problem of urine burns with daily sponging of the area and Wonder Gel (which actually seems to justify its name).

The second concern (finally we get to my actual question!) is to do with the feet. The trimmer is due next week. The fronts and LH are looking fine, but the RH (which was skipped last time, because the trimmer was concerned about the pony's ability to stand in a stable fashion) is getting rather long. It's obviously not feasible to leave the foot untrimmed for too much longer. Neither is it feasible to design some sort of high-effort intervention for getting at that foot, because this would have to be repeated every time, for as long as the mare continues to be stable, health-wise (impossible to tell if this is a matter of a few weeks, which we thought initially; a few months, which seems more likely now; or even a few years!). Can anyone think of a simple, sustainable way to trim a hind foot if the pony is reluctant to stand on three legs/a bit on the wobbly side? Maybe just using a very low Shetty hoof stand or even a chunk of wood, and trimming only top-down? Any suggestions for the trimmer to try? I have a bad feeling that this problem may make the decision for us...
 
trimming only top-down?
was going to suggest this. it's not done very often, for obvious reasons. But OH has described the technique to me and it would seem like the least stressful in the circumstances, if your trimmer is prepared to do similar.
 
I'm really sorry you are facing this issue. But I have had a horse with this level of ataxia and I had him put down as soon as I knew that he would never recover. I would never have forgiven myself if I had found him down and unable to get up, trying to scrabble around on his front legs with his back end on the floor. I would make the same decision for this pony.
 
I had one with Ataxia, and he had 6 months after retiring from work before he was PTS.

I found that he was better if I did the trimming, so he was done 2 or 3 times a week. It meant it was only a moment each time, he was still OK to have his feet picked out as long as he took his time. I think he trusted me as his mum to do things slowly and not unbalance him.

Mine sounded like yours, perfectly sound and happy to cavort around. It was when he had to turn is a small space that is was apparent that he had an issue. In the end he was affected by gusts on a windy day, and to me that was the end of that. I do have a video from just a few days earlier where he looked ready for the show ring though. Even on the day he was PTS I cold have lunged him and he looked glorious.

He did not have any issues with any other systems though, just turning in a small space, and, on his last full day on this earth, with wind gusts.
 
I've had 3 pts because of ataxia, 2 x Cushings related and the other probably was but was undiagnosed at 31, about 5 years ago. If I have had any horses with balance issues, e.g. young ones I have stood them next to a wall so that they don't feel so much as though they will fall over when dealing with feet. I'm not sure that I would have done that for an older horse though.

I am afraid that the bladder issue would be the deciding factor for me, added to the ataxia. I prefer, when possible, to let mine go before it is absolutely necessary. "Better a week too soon, than a day too late" as the saying goes. I am wary of vets who want to keep animals going after I think the end has come.

I'm sorry your companion pony seems to be coming to the end of her life.
 
Thank you peeps; it seems that we have a few ideas: standing near a wall, trimming top down, and frequent, momentary trims; these all sound as though they might be worth a try. And thank you also for your sympathy.

I agree with everyone that I don't think it will be long before she is PTS. We were ready to do so when the problem became apparent (especially with winter coming), but all four people there on that day, seeing how she was coping, were unanimous. This particular vet is certainly not one to urge either dramatic intervention or keeping an animal going too long. I agree that the big worry is her going down and not being able to get up, but that the urinary problem may well drive the decision first. Like Red-1's horse, the ataxia is apparent mainly when she needs to turn in a small space. Her next assessment will be quite soon, at which point I'll have another honest conversation with the vet, and I'll update also on how things go with the trimming next week.
 
for trimming similar problems I have either trimmed with the foot on the ground if the horse is unable to even pick it up. I stood him on rubber mats and used the nippers around the hoof to take off what was possible. This is pretty botched trimming obviously but does work. I learnt that from Ramey who trimmed laminitics that way when they could't pick their feet up.
If the foot can be picked up at all then I would trim using a block of wood as a stand. I would use something solid like a piece of railway sleeper or similar and use a power saw to cut out a semi circle to lay the foot in the same way as you would a hoof cradle. (this is with the sole uppermost). The other thing I have done is to put the foot forward on a block of wood, something like 4x 2inches so the foot is 2 inches off the ground and then use the rasp to round the edges or to trim with downward strokes. To make it easier I have cut an old rasp up into a very short length.

They may not be very pretty but all of these methods have worked. They do wonders for your back though!!
 
Thank you, paddy555! I will put those ideas to the trimmer as well. Regarding the rubber mat trick, do you use the squishiness of the mat to allow you to work the lower nipper blade under the edge of the hoof?
 
Thank you, paddy555! I will put those ideas to the trimmer as well. Regarding the rubber mat trick, do you use the squishiness of the mat to allow you to work the lower nipper blade under the edge of the hoof?


no the mat is simply to protect the nippers rather than damaging them on concrete.
 
The vet might be able to prescribe finadyne.

Description from the manufacturer:

"Finadyne Solution is a potent, non-steroidal, non-narcotic analgesic with anti-inflammatory, anti-endotoxic and anti-pyretic properties. In the horse, Finadyne Solution is indicated for the alleviation of inflammation and pain associated with musculo-skeletal disorders."

A fellow livery's horse who was very ataxic was treated with this for three days prior to transportation to a veterinary hospital to assess possible Wobblers. It stabilized him enough to travel so he could stand for the journey. Don't know if it was via injection or orally with paste.

Presumably if it stabilized him it might be suitable for your pony prior to shoeing. Might be worth asking your vet. Its a POM.
 
The vet might be able to prescribe finadyne.

Description from the manufacturer:

"Finadyne Solution is a potent, non-steroidal, non-narcotic analgesic with anti-inflammatory, anti-endotoxic and anti-pyretic properties. In the horse, Finadyne Solution is indicated for the alleviation of inflammation and pain associated with musculo-skeletal disorders."

A fellow livery's horse who was very ataxic was treated with this for three days prior to transportation to a veterinary hospital to assess possible Wobblers. It stabilized him enough to travel so he could stand for the journey. Don't know if it was via injection or orally with paste.

Presumably if it stabilized him it might be suitable for your pony prior to shoeing. Might be worth asking your vet. Its a POM.

Thanks for the idea! I will check, but I think finadyne was what was used to treat her initially to rule out an inflammatory problem, and she showed no significant improvement. We think the cause here is neurological, through interference of the melanomas.
 
Hello all! Today was the trim appointment, and I wanted to update everyone on how it went. We were successful in trimming the problem foot!

Our first plan was to try the mat idea, to try to get the pony to just rest her RH toe on the mat (so sole-up). We also placed her near a wall so she could lean if she needed to. But she was having none of it. It was clear that the issue isn't pain, so much as not wanting to take her weight just onto her LH for longer than a step.

Our second plan was to get her to stand with her hoof at the edge of the mat, itself placed beside an indentation in the ground (some sort of drain cover). The idea was to use nippers around the edges, but that didn't work, as the nipper handles still didn't have enough room away from the ground to bite. The rasp worked slightly better, but not well.

So her other 3 feet quickly got done, and then we moved on to the other 2 horses to give her a rest.

In looking around for a higher edge for her hoof to over-hang, I found that the concrete walkway has a deepish lip where it meets the soil at the back of the yard, like a little step. So we got her positioned with her RH just at the edge of that. She was perfectly happy standing there with the molasses lick (that is only ever brought out for bribery purposes, so highly coveted), while the trimmer quickly nipped and rasped. It's not a hoof to be winning any prizes for aesthetic presentation, but it's a perfectly serviceable trim. Much relief! Three pictures attached so you can see how we did it.
Lucyhuf1.jpgLucyhuf2klein.jpgLucyhuf3klein.jpg
 
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