If racing/hunting/shoeing/rugs/stables are cruel - is riding?

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zoeshiloh

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I have been reading an interesting book recently, written by a tree-hugging vegan (nothing wrong with vegans IMO just the way this woman writes!). Basically she condems everyone for slating her for being a vegan and shoving their ideals (ie hunting/shooting/meat-eating) down her throat, but she does the very same thing to them! She hates racing, shooting, hunting, fishing etc - and has a horse which is barefoot, lives out 24/7 (this is an ex-racer TB) and believes it is cruel to put a bit in its mouth....

Well, where do you draw the line? Surely you should also therefore be against sitting on a horse and making it do what you want it to do? How is taking a horse for a 5 hour hack around hilly countryside ok, when putting a rug on it isn't?? Just wondere what other peoples thoughts were on this...
 
Not all vegans are the same!
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My sister is a vegan but doesn't condemn riding (she used to ride too when she was a kid but then her allergies got to bad and she had to stop). She has nothing against people keeping animals and using animals properly and with respect. She would prefer I use synthetic tack but accepts that I eat meat and leather is a by-product of the meat I eat so better that it not go to waste (and synthetic saddles don't fit Hattie anyways).
 
I've often pondered this - there'd be no back problems, less lameness, vices etc etc. But lots of bored horses & people too.

Would we still keep them as field ornaments or would that be cruel too?!
 
Then she is cruel for keeping it in a paddock not letting it roam free in a herd.... she is cruel if she ever puts a headcollar on it...

FFS sounds like a woman who has lost her grip on reality. Cruel to put a bit in her horse's mouth? I could understand it better if she said "not necessary" or that she prefers not to in case of accidental off-balancing, hauling of rider, etc.

Honestly.
 
This woman rides her horse for hours and hours, but moans about every little thing - the horse must be barefoot, ridden without a bit, no rugs, only organic feed and hay etc. She has no qualms about enjoying herself riding, but the horse must be kept 'naturally' - well riding it isn't natural is it!

I always look at it as riding is not natural, and therefore sometimes we have to give them a bit of help (feed, shoes, rugs) to allow us to ride them, and allow them to remain comfortable while we do - does that make sense?

This woman has no problem with her cats killing animals, and her dog killing sheep (poor little thing is only doing what he was bred for?!?) but she has all these ideals that others are expected to live by...
 
I think my TB would actually die if I took off his rug and didn't stable him and I think I would actually die without a bit in his mouth!! Sorry but what utter bullshit. While I was away said horse was on holiday too and the capable hands I left him in (she's abit into her nautral horsemanship) took his shoeies off and as a result I returned to a hopping lame horse, the poor bean wasn't even field sound. It's taken a very decent farrier, heaps of supplement and nightly praying to save his feet and protenialy his life. My youngsters are unfeed, unrugged, unshod, just little ratbags that get checked daily, it wouldn't be cost effective to keep them otherwise. To be quite frank my horses cost me a bomb so if I want to be 'cruel' to them then I bloody well will... I wouldn't have them if I couldn't ride them so my cruelty if far better then the other opition
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She sounds very much like a NH person round by me.
She took her barefoot, no bit, TB to a xc clinic and the poor thing could hardly stay upright, he was sliding all over the place.
 
Each to their own I guess.

These people may have their hearts in the right place but they simply often don't appear to have their brains in gear and think about the consequences of their actions.

Answering the question with another here, if horses weren't kept to be ridden/used what would they be? Wild? Farmed? Endangered?

I think, if we were suddenly all made to give up whatever we do with our horses and turn them loose to fend for themselves that would be a damn sight more cruel.
 
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Lol - she might be near you Irishcobs - she lives in somerset!

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Oh dear, I suspect it could be her then. I know she does write books and it sounds like her.
 
i agree forget me not!!! I have a tb ex racehorse and if he loses a shoe you'd think his leg is hanging off he's so lame and I think he'd think his life had ended if I left him outside without a rug- and he's unclipped!!
 
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She has no qualms about enjoying herself riding, but the horse must be kept 'naturally' - well riding it isn't natural is it!

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There we have the first contradiction.

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I always look at it as riding is not natural, and therefore sometimes we have to give them a bit of help (feed, shoes, rugs) to allow us to ride them, and allow them to remain comfortable while we do - does that make sense?

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Absolutely, and a very sensible thing I think. No problems with people wanting to keep their horses as close to natural as possible - I do - but if we want to domesticate and ride them we have to take into account that this isn't what they evolved for, and make the adjustments we need to make.

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This woman has no problem with her cats killing animals, and her dog killing sheep (poor little thing is only doing what he was bred for?!?) but she has all these ideals that others are expected to live by...

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Oh, so if she owned a pet sheep she wouldn't have a problem with somebody else's dog coming and killing it? In which case I suppose she wouldn't have a problem with her horse being predated by the same dog, because its only natural?
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Oh I /hate/ most vegans! I am one and the rest give me such a bad reputation!

My (veggie) mum was seriously worried I'd end up a funny shade of blue and not exactly right in the head when I started the veganism thing... several (4/5ish?) years later she has changed her mind. Beacsue she now knows one healthy vegan (me!) - as I pointed out I'm also the only one she knows who doesn't smoke far too much weed :-)

Yes, of course riding can be cruel as can over-rugging/poor hoof care/stabling for long periods/bitting. Hunting (for the quarry) and racing (for most underdeveloped youngsters) are very often cruel.

That doesn't mean I don't think riding (and most of the rest of the list) can't be done nicely too. I wish people could be taught to *think* with consideration rather than follow (any) set of rules blindly.
 
The book I read was written by Liz Jones, yes. It is full of inaccuracy and nonsense - some of the things she comes out with had me in hysterics. Currently, in her articles she claims to be almost bankrupt, owing nearly £150,000 and yet she still bangs on about her Prada wardrobes, BMW, staff (gardner, cleaner, groom etc) and her mother's care staff.

This wasn't really meant to be about her though - just her attitude of everything has to be natural and lovely, but she still thinks it right to ride her horse for five hours despite it being cruel to shoe/rug/stable it etc.
 
Only an idiot would say that shoeing is cruel. I'm a diehard barefooter, but I could not possibly support the notion that shoeing is "cruel".
 
My TB lives out (with 2 rugs atm) and probably could go without back shoes but as soon as he loses a front shoe every hole or stone and he is crippled. I understand the more 'natural' way of not being cooped up in stables but for some people this is a necessity and that is how they manage their horses. Most of our horses today were bred in domestic situations and that is all they know now, there are exceptions of course, it isn't like we are back to the dark ages and lassoing wild horses and forcing them to be ridden.

Everyone manages their horses in different ways to suit them but I think she has taken it a little too far...
 
Uh oh! Liz Jones! Personally I can't stand her. My OH's parents get the Mail (gawd knows why) and I end up reading it if I'm up there at weekends. She comes across as a city girl trying to pretend to belong in the countryside. A lot of her articles are cringeworthy, I can't stand someone like that preaching on about how we should look after our horses.

That said, I'm kinda curious as to whats in this book. I don't want to contribute to her bank account, so if there are any particularly funny passages please share them!
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Ooo yes will hook out some quotes later. I read her piece online have you read the comments?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/articl...en-like-me.html


We have just bought a place in Dulverton and the people there couldn't be nicer and more welcoming. She moans they are awful to her but that is because she wrote about them calling them backwards boring and smelly!
 
But she did recently claim in an article that her mare had gone "feral" recently - ie that she could no longer catch her to feed her or rug her. I just don't think her equine management or horse sense is very good. Saying a horse has gone "feral" is not an excuse for a failure to tend a horse...
 
I haven't read all the replies but yes I would say if those are her opinions then riding would certainly be considered cruel. Does she keep this horse on its own? Of so that is very cruel as well and, as mentioned not allowing it to roam free is against all its natural instincts and behaviour.

Double standards basically.

I myself am vegetarian and do not like many things that go on with treatment of animals and I don't like the general greed we have in the western world and how ignorant many people are about where our food/clothes/shoes etc come from but I understand necessity for certain things and, if horses were not used by us as leisure animals then what would their use be in this modern world?

I'd love to be put in a room with this woman and question her for keeping a horse to ride at all!!
 
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