If you had to bute your horse to do a particular activity...

I'd use bute under vets advice for short term only and like Starzaan would give after days hunting to an old horse who's joints stiffen up. My old mare get some Butless (devils claw) in her feed through the winter as she stiffens up, otherwise no
 
Rebelzmum, I agree with what you say. another friend has her very elderly mare on Danilon long term, and she's doing just fine. For her, it's balancing out quality of life with the risk of long-term drug use. in fact, her mare behaves like a three year old on her short hacks, and loves life.

But to bute up a horse to jump etc....totally different. Buteless or a strong supplement may just do the trick.
 
I know a few people whose horses are on bute and are ridden - but they're not on it to do a higher level of work, just hacking.

I think it depends on why they are on Bute, but for something like arthritis, if you're aware of the damage long term bute use does, if your horse has to be on bute anyway and is happy to hack, why not?
 
I had this dilema with my ex race horse.

He fractured a leg in racing but was sound when I got him.

6 months later he did a suspensory ligament and was on box rest, bute etc injections from vet.

After bringing him back into work I was advised that he was not 100% sound but that he was less than 1/10 lame in front.

Vet advised that given his history he would be on bute for life but that he should continue to work (hacking and a bit of schooling) to stop him stiffening up. He was on bute for about 4 months but I was growing more uncomfortable with this.

Discussed with vet and agreed I would bring him off bute and would monitor. He'd already been on joint supplement and I was able to get him virtually sound (still stiff to start with) with careful management.

I do still keep a supply of bute as he has moments when he pelts round the field and then looks quite sore but I didn't like the idea of doing work on bute.

I was concerned that I would still be doing damage if he was doing anything while there was a problem even though the bute maybe masking the pain.

Hope I've made sense!!
 
My horse been on bute/danilon for 5 years and been ridden. He has navicular and recently arthritis. Vet advised to keep him moving, only done light hacking with him though.
 
My mare is on bute 1 danilon a day, she is hacked , schooled , and taken to shows, she is in fantastic condition she loves life, and is such a happy horse. 1 bute a day is nothing, are any of you vets ? I have had a long conversation with my vets who have told me that to cause liver damage and all the other horror stories associated with bute you would have to be feeding a hell of a lot of it.

The mare has a blood test every 6 months to check her to make sure she is not suffering any of the side effects of long term bute use. A lot of people are now giving joint injections..is this not just as bad..nerve blocking, then injections straight into the joint can you imagine the stress the horse goes through with this ?

I will not be made to feel guilty giving horse bute, i will not put a mare down due to being slightly lame, when bute will sort it out and improve her quality of life, she is 14 and as the vets said most horses show signs of stifness at this age. She is also on cosequine and it all helps her to be pain free.
 
Maletto said:
If, in order to do a particular activity (whether that be high level dressage, mounted games or showjumping), you had to give your horse bute, would this be right?

Is it common practice to give horses medication in order to be able to perform such an activity if they had chronic pain?

(whilst the idea of this posting came from another thread, it is not intended to be in a bitchy fashion, more out of interest)
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I dont know if it right or wrong i just know what i do, my pony is on bute permanently as he has arthritis and will never get better, he is never ridden and we manage it the best we can e.g. flat small fields on his own or with YO horse who doesn't hassle him, try to keep his weight reasonable too.

If my other horse where to need bute to do something, simple.. i wouldn't do it, already got one poorly pony, don't want two :)

EDIT : My pony on bute is only 12 so not age related, and its way more than a little stiffness. If he just had a little stiffness from ageing but was fine on a small amount of bute then i would probably use him for light hacking and nothing more.
I dont think its wrong having a horse on a small amount of bute and using them still but as for a large amount of bute and still using them for strenuous things..well i wouldnt say its wrong, i would just never do it myself.
 
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Well, I have an issue where I might say yes to this question. My girl has bone spavin and she has to be kept moving or she'll stiiffen up and light exercise is the best thing for her, according to vet (walking in straight lines and hacking mainly). I'm sure some days she's worse than others, so even though I haven't yet, I'd like to try some bute for those days when I feel she's uncomfortable - same as me taking Ibuprofen/Naproxen for when my arthritic hip kicks in, I suppose, and I still have to bugger about on it all day:).
 
So what do we do with the horses that are not 100% sound...just PTS or keep in the field ?

So another thought..no bute but what about Joint injections ? Are they also wrong, as many vets are going down this route now.
 
i think the main thrust of this post is about buting for jumping, eventing, etc, in order to get the horse round and mask the pain, not for light hacking and stuff. I think many horses may need a bute for after effects of a tough course, but is it right to bute them up to the eyeballs before an event ?

have i got that right ?
 
I would give my horse bute if it made the horse more comfortable just 'being' But I would also question whether this was morally right.

But never would I give a horse bite so I could ride or compete.
 
Cat among the pigeon time....Yes I use bute on a regular basis, yes it is on the authority of my vet and no I don't feel guilty. B has 2 sachets daily in order to hunt. He is a big boy and 18 yo. He has sidebone and thickened annular ligaments. We used to compete regularly R/C 1 DE / SJ / XC etc and he did well. However he isn't really built for it so on vets advice he started his second career as a hunter and loves it. However as years went by he needed a little help, hence the bute. I know people will throw up their hands in horror at this, but in my mind most horses do not get enough work and are far better working. They can go downhill quick when "retired" doing nothing in a field. Sorry that is not for me. When my boys are unable to do a job, then they are put down. I think it is kindest..........fallout awaited!
 
Before my horse was PTS he was on bute. Only before we competed/ jumped and we monitored how he was in between each bout carefully. As a result he had 5 happy, healthy years with us doing what he loved. He was 22 when we got him, and nearly 28 when he was PTS. He was PTS because his body caught up on him- we saw that without bute he was unsound (here's a key thing- he was always sound off bute, the bute was to alleviate the symptoms of arthritis in his shoulders) so made the heart breaking decision to let an old man go.

I wouldn't ever ride a horse on bute if the bute was being to mask unsoundness. Ever. The situation we were in meant that bute allowed us to keep our old man happy and alive for longer. So of course we did, and I have no regrets. He died a loved, fit, healthy old boy who had received the best care he possibly could have.
 
My horse has the choice of being shot or on Danilon so guess what, he is on Danilon! He has had £5ks worth of medical treatment and was still 2/10 lame (arthritis) so he was put on Danilon and has come sound. He is now out on loan with someone who is having a brilliant time with him. I do not agree with field ornaments unless they are late teens. This horse is 11 year old.
It is the equivelent of taking ibruprofen and as someone who often takes it myself to deal with tweaks and twinges then I pity all those horses you have who could have a lovely lower level life with a little bit of help and yet are sat in the field.
I also have a 20 year old who hunts twice a week and is full of life. He is also on Danilon or he looks crippled as he is stiff. He would be miserable sat in the field and yet thanks to Danilon is able to keep doing the thing he loves. One day he will turn around and say he has had enough and he will be retired but I would rather see him happily enjoying his work than struggling and being stiff.
I am highly amused by most of the people that would not consider it but I would rather keep a good horse going than shoot it and maybe get a piece of rubbish to take its place.
 
If its unaff or BSJA then I would not care as its not in the rules. BE and BD have strict rules about it. In USA its common to compete on bute. Half the horses I see are 1/10 - 3/10 lame just most of the riders do not realise.
 
If my pony is on bute she is usually on box rest. But if it was a long term thing then she would only be in the field and do light exercise like walking on the leadrope. I Would never try to ride her because after the bute had worn off she would be in pain. xx
 
personally I do not see what is wrong with giving a horse a bute a day if that's what it needs to maintain a comfortable existance, be it relief from an arthritic condition or some other long term chronic disease. So long as the horse in question is used as a leisure horse. I would not however expect a horse to go out and compete on the drug. ( I know this is illegal anyway)

Most horses can be safely maintained on a low dose of ' bute' with out it causing any adverse effects for many years. I know as I get older I need regular drugs to keep me comfortable so why should a horse be denied the same?

The difference between maintaining a horse for comfort and masking pain for benefit are great and completely different issues.
 
TicTac said:
personally I do not see what is wrong with giving a horse a bute a day if that's what it needs to maintain a comfortable existance, be it relief from an arthritic condition or some other long term chronic disease. So long as the horse in question is used as a leisure horse. I would not however expect a horse to go out and compete on the drug. ( I know this is illegal anyway)

Most horses can be safely maintained on a low dose of ' bute' with out it causing any adverse effects for many years. I know as I get older I need regular drugs to keep me comfortable so why should a horse be denied the same?

The difference between maintaining a horse for comfort and masking pain for benefit are great and completely different issues.
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I agree. as long as it keeps the horse comfortable its ok but i would never do any hard work or competing work whilst my horse was on it! xx
 
having worked in the equestrian world all disiplins from hunting to bsja yards i have seen many horses compete on different medicine / supplements/ injections not saying that is is right but it is certainty widely done specially in bsja but i would rather have my horse on bute happy to do work than sat in the field .
 
I'd defer to my vet whose opinion I respect fully.

However, in general I think common sense would prevail and if the medication was to stem a couple of niggly aches and pains due to stiff joints etc., I'd have no qualms in continuing to be a happy hacker if the vet said it was OK.

But if medicating up to the eyeballs was deemed necessary to allow me to compete for my gain only, then that (in my opinion) would be totally unacceptable - and illegal too.
 
shysmum said:
i think the main thrust of this post is about buting for jumping, eventing, etc, in order to get the horse round and mask the pain, not for light hacking and stuff. I think many horses may need a bute for after effects of a tough course, but is it right to bute them up to the eyeballs before an event ?

have i got that right ?
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Sorry, shysmum, i've been away for a while.

That was the intended thrust of the post - if a horse could be comfortable/bute free doing low level hacking/schooling/field rest then is it fair to bute it up in order to enable it to do higher level activities?
 
They cannot do higher level on bute? Only BSJA. Mind you depends what you call higher level. To me jumping 1m, dressage at novice and hunting is low level.
 
nokia said:
So what do we do with the horses that are not 100% sound...just PTS or keep in the field ?

So another thought..no bute but what about Joint injections ? Are they also wrong, as many vets are going down this route now.
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That's not at all what I asked. I asked if it was necessary to bute a horse in order to do a particular activity, would it be right/ethical to do so.

I'm thinking of the sorts of horses that could cope with hacking or light schooling but require bute to jump/fast hacking/mounted games/whatever, and basically if it's right, as an owner, to drug your horse to allow it to do the activity YOU want, rather than what the horse is capable of.

There must be thousands of horses out there that have mild arthritis or another condition that means they cannot be ridden strenuously but could live a very happy life pottering around & being loved by someone.

It's these horses I was asking about - I wanted to know whether it was ethical and/or customary to bute these animals in order to achieve what the rider wants.
 
charlie13 said:
having worked in the equestrian world all disiplins from hunting to bsja yards i have seen many horses compete on different medicine / supplements/ injections not saying that is is right but it is certainty widely done specially in bsja but i would rather have my horse on bute happy to do work than sat in the field .
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I might be completely barking, but in my opinion, most horses are happiest mooching about in the fields with their buddies.

They only work because they are asked to, and are herd animals, and therefore so willing to please

So how ethical is it to drug a horse up to enable it to do what the rider wants?
 
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