FfionWinnie
Well-Known Member
You should slow down not speed up and you should do it very gradually.
IFOR WILLIAMS NEW 511 SNAKING
- Thread starter amarat
- Start date
mcnaughty
Well-Known Member
Personally think you were going too fast. Trailer limit may be 60mph but that is not necessarily carrying a live load.
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
THIS^^^^
We had to put a drop plate on all our 4x4's because the tow bar was far too high. This tends to be an area that many people overlook.
Bosworth
Well-Known Member
i do not consider 55mph to be too fast with horses, if the road is good, if there are no bends then there is no reason whatsoever that you cannot drive at the speedlimit of 60. I have driven miles and miles towing a 510 trailer, but my towing capacity was 3500. and I never towed anything more than 2500. I never experienced snaking with that trailer 4x4 combination. I suspect the car is not really man enough for the weight of the trailer which is why it snaked.
Black_Horse_White
Well-Known Member
I don't know what year your Sorento is but mines an 08 manual and has a towing capacity of 3000kg. So should think it's down to the towing vehicle.
Black_Horse_White
Well-Known Member
Mean't "not" down to the towing vehicle.
eggs
Well-Known Member
What side of the trailer was your horse loaded on? I only ask because I believe that due to the weight of the side ramp on the Equitreks you load a single horse on the opposite side to other trailers.
Always Henesy
Well-Known Member
I would just like to say that 50-55mph on this particular dual carriageway on a still and hot sunny day was not excessive (although I never go over 50mph myself)
The car/trailer combination was well within limits (I saw it) and only one horse on board.
I would again like to stress that in this case it was probably due to the height of the tow bar or tyre pressure and not the IW itself.
The OP says the tow ball was at the highest level but you MUST get the trailer/car combination aligned properly by a trailer specialist as they are all different.
I was also told not to accelerate when a trailer snakes, but in fact to slow down and apply brakes slowly.
The car/trailer combination was well within limits (I saw it) and only one horse on board.
I would again like to stress that in this case it was probably due to the height of the tow bar or tyre pressure and not the IW itself.
The OP says the tow ball was at the highest level but you MUST get the trailer/car combination aligned properly by a trailer specialist as they are all different.
I was also told not to accelerate when a trailer snakes, but in fact to slow down and apply brakes slowly.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Thank goodness for a bit of sense.
The force from a horse in a trailer when braking or swerving suddenly is unbelievably strong and can push you completely out of kilter with little warning; (when an accident happens it happens very suddenly, you don't get long range warnings very often so that you can slow down gradually) so it makes safety sense to travel within a safe margin unless you're happy to throw your horse off its feet and possibly through the front of the trailer if you have to brake suddenly because they don't have the benefit of seeing (and knowing what they're seeing) what's coming so being able to brace themselves against impact.
NeverSayNever
Well-Known Member
i feel a bit sorry for the OP, there seems to be a lot of implication it was her fault and really, well, there but for the grace of God we all go as you never know what can happen every time you go out on the roads. Im quite happy doing 60mph with my horse on board on a straight section of dual carriageway in good conditions. Im so glad you werent hurt OP.
Can I ask about this towbar height thing
Are you talking about the hitch on the trailer as to me ‘towbar’ is what is on your vehicle and the towbar on my vehicle is certainly not adustable I have a 505 and I cant say Ive ever noticed the hitch on the trailer is adjustable either
Can I ask about this towbar height thing
Are you talking about the hitch on the trailer as to me ‘towbar’ is what is on your vehicle and the towbar on my vehicle is certainly not adustable I have a 505 and I cant say Ive ever noticed the hitch on the trailer is adjustable either rockysmum
Well-Known Member
iCan I ask about this towbar height thing
You dont alter the trailer, its the vehicle towbar.
My Landy has one that you can alter very easily, but they were designed to tow anything
A lot of towbars have a plate which can be altered. Usually by a garage as you have to undo bolts and sometimes add plates. Also need special high tensile bolts.
NeverSayNever
Well-Known Member
You dont alter the trailer, its the vehicle towbar.
My Landy has one that you can alter very easily, but they were designed to tow anything
A lot of towbars have a plate which can be altered. Usually by a garage as you have to undo bolts and sometimes add plates. Also need special high tensile bolts.
ah ok! Thanks for explaining.Mine isnt like that but Ive learned something I i didnt know before. Sorry to hyjack OP
Bosworth
Well-Known Member
Some Kia sorentos are too small to tow the possible weight, although they would look fine they are not actually man enough to meet the 85 percent recommendation. Have a look at this link. it explains that although the vehicle may have a towing capacity of a certain amount, is should not actually be used to tow that amount. http://www.uktow.com/towing capacity.asp#tab1
NeverSayNever
Well-Known Member
the 85% thing was a guideline from the caravan club for towing unbraked trailers. im sure the same doesnt apply to a braked twin axel horse trailer.
rockysmum
Well-Known Member
I have to say I cringe when I read the towing clinic on here.
Yes some of the combinations might be just legal. But who on earth wants to put their precious horses in something which is "just legal"
My Landy will tow up to 3.5 tonnes apparently. My trailer has a max of 2.7 tonnes. I seriously doubt if I have come anywhere near that with two of mine in. But its enough, I really really would not want to tow 3.5 tonnes, legal or not. I am sure I usually have at least a tonne in reserve.
No idea whether that was the cause of the snaking, it could have been one or several of the ideas on here.
Just had to say this.
Yes some of the combinations might be just legal. But who on earth wants to put their precious horses in something which is "just legal"
My Landy will tow up to 3.5 tonnes apparently. My trailer has a max of 2.7 tonnes. I seriously doubt if I have come anywhere near that with two of mine in. But its enough, I really really would not want to tow 3.5 tonnes, legal or not. I am sure I usually have at least a tonne in reserve.
No idea whether that was the cause of the snaking, it could have been one or several of the ideas on here.
Just had to say this.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
Snaking is a common and natural phenomenon for all trailers. Usualy the cause of it becoming a problem is the towing vehicle and hitch height. Trailers snake,Towing vehicles absorb and damp out the snake. Everyone who cares about their horses should fit an anti snake device.Cheap and effective.
Bosworth
Well-Known Member
caravans are not unbraked, they are all braked, the 85% allows for safe towing, not maximum towing. No horse trailer / vehicle combination should come near that ratio for safetys sake. A horse trailer is far more dangerous than a caravan as it has a live moveable cargo which can totally unbalance the trailer
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
This happened to me towing my carriage / stabling trailer its a terrifying experiance in my case itwas hot ruts in road caused by HG's caused the snake to start one of the tyres came off and went up the axles .
I will never ever forget the scream of noise as the trailer flung my range rover though 180 degrees and tipped it on its side it seemed to go for ever time slowed.
OP I am towing again it took a while you and your pony are so lucky hope you feel better soon.
I will never ever forget the scream of noise as the trailer flung my range rover though 180 degrees and tipped it on its side it seemed to go for ever time slowed.
OP I am towing again it took a while you and your pony are so lucky hope you feel better soon.
perfect11s
Well-Known Member
these little trailers are Not a very good idea from a enginering point of view due to the large distance between the tow car axle and trailer coulpling and if things are wrong as others have said like tyre presures or the tow bar on the car is a little low or the trailer is loaded wrong its a recipe for problems this is most likely cause of snaking, the other possibility is the trailer axle had moved because of a previous acident like clipping a curb or it was loose and moved on the road spring..
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
A 511 is not small it's designed to take two 17.2's
perfect11s
Well-Known Member
You miss my point!! they are a small trailer that is towed with a light commecial or car type vehicle..
millimoo
Well-Known Member
Perfect11s... You've lost me?
We've got a HB511, and have no issues with it snaking, but that's because my mum sticks at 45mph.
Hers is towed with a Discovery 3, not a car type vehicle???
A few years ago, our neighbour was towing our horse and hers on the motorway in a HB510, behind a Discovery 3. She got a wobble, that resulted in the trailer becoming detached, the horses doing 360degree spin, nose to tail, and the vehicle bouncing off the crash barrier on it's roof, landing facing back up the motorway.
In this instance speed was a factor, and just before the wobble started my mum was about to ask her to slow down.
I think the camber and bend on the road, coupled with 2 horses shifting weight set the trailer off, and speed meant it could be controlled, leading to catastrophic consequences. One horse was thrown clear, and my mums horse, who had travelled on the left, ended up wedged in the front.
Thankfully everyone survived, but my mums horse had a wound that took 6 months to close on his stifle, and severe concussion (they hadnt expected him to survive the night due to shock)
OP, I think you have some excellent advise regards tow weights, tow ball height, and tyre pressure, and am so glad for you that you're all ok. Maybe you can get a ln independent inspection of the trailer regards road worthiness, however I'd be amazed if the trailer was at fault.
We've got a HB511, and have no issues with it snaking, but that's because my mum sticks at 45mph.
Hers is towed with a Discovery 3, not a car type vehicle???
A few years ago, our neighbour was towing our horse and hers on the motorway in a HB510, behind a Discovery 3. She got a wobble, that resulted in the trailer becoming detached, the horses doing 360degree spin, nose to tail, and the vehicle bouncing off the crash barrier on it's roof, landing facing back up the motorway.
In this instance speed was a factor, and just before the wobble started my mum was about to ask her to slow down.
I think the camber and bend on the road, coupled with 2 horses shifting weight set the trailer off, and speed meant it could be controlled, leading to catastrophic consequences. One horse was thrown clear, and my mums horse, who had travelled on the left, ended up wedged in the front.
Thankfully everyone survived, but my mums horse had a wound that took 6 months to close on his stifle, and severe concussion (they hadnt expected him to survive the night due to shock)
OP, I think you have some excellent advise regards tow weights, tow ball height, and tyre pressure, and am so glad for you that you're all ok. Maybe you can get a ln independent inspection of the trailer regards road worthiness, however I'd be amazed if the trailer was at fault.
millimoo
Well-Known Member
Speed meant it could NOT be controlled - to correct the sentence above
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Not wishing to worry any one but I was going 43 mph when I had my accident.
amarat
New User
Thank you all for your suggestions. Here is some more information which eliminates some of them:
The max towing weight of the Kia Sorrento is 2800kg. The 511 is 1000kg and my horse 600 kg max - So I was well within limits (I towed the equitrek space trekka L which weighs 1250 kg for 3 years with the same car and no problems).
The horse was travelling on the right hand side ie away from the camber of the road.
The maximum towing speed on a national speed limit dual carriage way is 60 mph. Whilst we can all allow our speed to creep up unintentionally, I am 99% sure I was well within the limit. I have been driving for 30 years and kept a completely clean licence and also hold the advanced driving certificate - so judge for yourselves. I always tow very steadily on minor roads, bends roundabouts etc for the sake of the horse - I have never had a bad loader so I think that speaks for itself. However, on a straight dual carriage way in good conditions (which it was) I have often driven at 55 - 60 mph and never had a problem.
The tow bar was not altered from the 505 to the equitrek to the 511. It was on the upper setting and measured 18 inches from the ground to the top of the ball without a trailer attached. The trailer had been attached to the car by the ifor dealer when I purchased it. If the tow bar needed lowering,(which would have been the only alternative to the height it was at) I would have thought he would have done it there and then.
Comments that it is a live load that moves are true but horse trailers are designed to carry a live load. I had the rather alarming experience a couple of years ago when my much bigger horse decided to 'hunt' all the way home when he had enjoyed himself rather too much out bloodhounding - That was in the equitrek and it certainly didn't move it.
I am getting the trailer inspected by an independent engineer for my own peace of mind. I will certainly be letting Ifor know if a problem is found. If there was an issue with the trailer, the last thing I want is for this to happen to any body else
The max towing weight of the Kia Sorrento is 2800kg. The 511 is 1000kg and my horse 600 kg max - So I was well within limits (I towed the equitrek space trekka L which weighs 1250 kg for 3 years with the same car and no problems).
The horse was travelling on the right hand side ie away from the camber of the road.
The maximum towing speed on a national speed limit dual carriage way is 60 mph. Whilst we can all allow our speed to creep up unintentionally, I am 99% sure I was well within the limit. I have been driving for 30 years and kept a completely clean licence and also hold the advanced driving certificate - so judge for yourselves. I always tow very steadily on minor roads, bends roundabouts etc for the sake of the horse - I have never had a bad loader so I think that speaks for itself. However, on a straight dual carriage way in good conditions (which it was) I have often driven at 55 - 60 mph and never had a problem.
The tow bar was not altered from the 505 to the equitrek to the 511. It was on the upper setting and measured 18 inches from the ground to the top of the ball without a trailer attached. The trailer had been attached to the car by the ifor dealer when I purchased it. If the tow bar needed lowering,(which would have been the only alternative to the height it was at) I would have thought he would have done it there and then.
Comments that it is a live load that moves are true but horse trailers are designed to carry a live load. I had the rather alarming experience a couple of years ago when my much bigger horse decided to 'hunt' all the way home when he had enjoyed himself rather too much out bloodhounding - That was in the equitrek and it certainly didn't move it.
I am getting the trailer inspected by an independent engineer for my own peace of mind. I will certainly be letting Ifor know if a problem is found. If there was an issue with the trailer, the last thing I want is for this to happen to any body else
perfect11s
Well-Known Member
Sorry what I am trying to say is the way of towing isnt ideal from a technical point of view Ie there is a lot of leaverage and movement because the towing point is a long way behind the rear axle!!! this makes it unstable and easly affected by mismatched tow bar height, low tyre presures , load in the wrong place , the trailer axle out of line or bent , mecanical issue with the towing vehicle like worn shock absorbers etc or sudden driver stering inputs.. all or a combination of these can cause snakeing and possible loss of control!! if everything is right then towing at 60 mph or more is possible and safe I would say to anyone if your outfit starts to feel unstable at lower speeds ask questions before there is another nasty avoidable accident...
meesha
Well-Known Member
So glad you are all ok, personally I am gobsmacked at people saying you were travelling too fast. On a motorway I would not dream of travelling under 50 mph (unless conditions dictated) and mostly travel between 50 and 55 sometimes touching 60 on a clear dry stretch of quiet road, on a dual carriageway I would happily do 50+ if conditions permitted. Doing 40 ish you would be a hazard to other road users and have large lorries constantly overtaking you - please dont take this the wrong way but surely that is more dangerous especially if you are trying to join the motorway doing 30-40 when other vehicles are all doing 60 - 80 mph !!
I hope you manage to get to the bottom of it all and it would be great if you could post what the problem was so we can all be more aware of what to check - I am off to the yard now to check my tow ball height compared to hitch height on trailer !!
I hope you manage to get to the bottom of it all and it would be great if you could post what the problem was so we can all be more aware of what to check - I am off to the yard now to check my tow ball height compared to hitch height on trailer !!
FfionWinnie
Well-Known Member
If you don't feel safe ever travelling more than 40 mph, the set up isn't right almost certainly.
As this was a new trailer nothing should have been worn. Something must have caused it however.
As this was a new trailer nothing should have been worn. Something must have caused it however.
Merlin11
Well-Known Member
We have an ifor510 and hadn't had any problems as we normally drive on small roads at no more than 40mph. However we once went on a dual carriageway and were doing over 50 and the trailer starting snaking. All was ok and we got it back under control but the lesson was don't do more than about 40. Think it may also have been due to tyre pressure which we always check now before a journey. Don't think it is a fault of the trailer - they are just not meant to be driven over 50. If you want to go faster than this I would get a lorry. Hope all is ok. It is a horrible experience.
perfect11s
Well-Known Member
Sorry rubbish !!!!!