IFOR WILLIAMS NEW 511 SNAKING

[Bosworth]

My trailer and set up were perfectly fine being driven over 40! And to be honest if you are worried about towing over 40 then you need to think about your set up. it is dangerous to travel so slowly, you are putting your self and your horse at risk along with everyone else on the road. You need to make progress, to move towards the speed limit or other road users are forced to go round you putting yourself and them in danger. On a dual carriage way you need to be going at a decent speed or you will cause lorries to swerve round you and the drag from them can cause your trailer to snake. A slower journey can cause your horse far more stress than a faster one, of course that speed has to be within the law, but going slowly does not make for a safer journey. if your set up does not feel safe then you need to look at pulling vehicle, is it underpowered, is trailer over laden or badly weighted, is tow hitch incorrect. Is trailer too light? I had one experience of snaking and that was with a Bateson which always gave the horse a dreadful journey. we thought the horse was a bad traveller but in the Ifor 510 he travelled well. I towed with the same vehicle over the same journey in similar weather conditions, so only difference was the trailer. It just did not hold the road in the same way as the 510, it bounced and lifted at every bump. A very unpleasant trailer to tow.

 

[ROG]

Speed alone will not cause a trailer of any kind to wobble - there must be an added factor - that is basic physics

 

[Maesfen]

The one thing that amazes me is all these people saying over 50mph is safe for pulling a trailer with horses in are obviously forgetting that it is a live cargo and as such is liable to move in some circumstances which means you have less control of the trailer and vehicle. By all means go that fast with a load of furniture but not with something that is your pride and joy surely.

As someone else said, if you really must be a speed merchant while carrying a horse - or any large live animal, then the safest way of travel is a lorry, no question about it; you can go as fast as you like then.

 

[Merlin11]

You misunderstood my post. We are keeping to the small roads and driving at this speed is not a problem - going faster on these roads would be even without a trailer. We only do a short journey so no need to go on faster roads. We just tried it once due to road works. There is no problem re weight - we drive a discovery. Will look at the tow bar height as others have suggested though. We have one horse who does not travel well and moves around. Their safety is paramount.

 

[catembi]

OMG, so many awful accidents, and from people not doing anything particularly 'wrong'.

I sold my DAF to pay for building work, am now transportless & was planning on buying a trailer in the Spring, but now I just don't know whether I'd be better off with another lorry. Can't really afford to run one, but OMG, all of these accidents are so terrible. I'm not sure whether I'd prefer to stay transportless til I can afford another lorry rather than risk having something like this happen.

I have a V6 landcruiser bought with towing in mind, but trailer + 2 horses is a lot of weight (even tho within its capabilities) and I can see how it could all go wrong very, very quickly.

Thank you for your post - I was actually thinking about a 511. Really hope you're okay.

T x

 

[FfionWinnie]

The one thing that amazes me is all these people saying over 50mph is safe for pulling a trailer with horses in are obviously forgetting that it is a live cargo and as such is liable to move in some circumstances which means you have less control of the trailer and vehicle. By all means go that fast with a load of furniture but not with something that is your pride and joy surely.

As someone else said, if you really must be a speed merchant while carrying a horse - or any large live animal, then the safest way of travel is a lorry, no question about it; you can go as fast as you like then.

No I am not forgetting it is a live cargo and nor am I stupid or irresponsible. I tow live cargo for a living. My live cargo isn't tied up or unable to turn round either, it's cattle who do not travel as quietly as a horse does! My trailer is not good to tow, I would much rather tow a IW trailer than this one.

60mph is not a speed merchant in the correct driving conditions.

A good journey for any animal is smooth speed changes and very smooth gradual braking and cornering.

Sitting at 40mph on the motorway because your trailer/vehicle combo, tyre pressures and tow bar height makes it too dangerous to go any faster has the added danger of someone backending you.

Honestly now, who checks their tyre pressures and tyre condition every time they tow?

 

[Capriole]

Honestly now, who checks their tyre pressures and tyre condition every time they tow?

Yes, we do. Along with all the lights etc.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Really interesting thread and reassured that you all stick to safe speeds because I get laughed at in our Pony Club because everyone overtakes me on the way to events-but I don't care and I will stick to what I consider to be safe and appropriate. On a motorway I will sit at around 55mph. Sorry about your accident Op, I tow an Ifor 505 and have found it to be very stable, I hope you get to the bottom of what caused it and let us know.

 

[Lucyad]

How terrifying - so glad you all came out unscathed.

We tow a HB510 with a Disco or Range Rover, regularly using dual carriageways and motorways. I would be very interested to know more about what caused your accident (and others), so we can all take as much care as possible in the future to avoid similar incidents.

 

[millimoo]

OMG, so many awful accidents, and from people not doing anything particularly 'wrong'.

I sold my DAF to pay for building work, am now transportless & was planning on buying a trailer in the Spring, but now I just don't know whether I'd be better off with another lorry. Can't really afford to run one, but OMG, all of these accidents are so terrible. I'm not sure whether I'd prefer to stay transportless til I can afford another lorry rather than risk having something like this happen.

I have a V6 landcruiser bought with towing in mind, but trailer + 2 horses is a lot of weight (even tho within its capabilities) and I can see how it could all go wrong very, very quickly.

Thank you for your post - I was actually thinking about a 511. Really hope you're okay.

T x

Don't be put off... my mum sold her beautiful Coachbuilt Leyland Daf because her current horse would not load, and once in sweated like mad.
She hired a HB511 to see how he travelled / loaded in that, and he was a different horse, so with reluctance sold her lorry... think he was used to forward facing, as came from Holland where travelling by trailer is the norm (in Bockmanns and alike)
She was very nervous about going back to a trailer after the accident, but she's been out more times in the trailer in the last 6 weeks, than she did all year.
However if she was doing a long motorway journey, she says she would hire a lorry.

I think this thread is brilliant though, because i'm sure many don't think about the towbar height and assume it's correct. And if it makes us all a bit more dilligent before we set off, then all the better.

OP - I'm glad you're getting an independant inspection, as a 1 week old trailer should be perfect, and not have any issues at all, and clearly you were well within weights and loaded correctly etc. Hope you get some answers soon

 

[millimoo]

Sorry what I am trying to say is the way of towing isnt ideal from a technical point of view Ie there is a lot of leaverage and movement because the towing point is a long way behind the rear axle!!! this makes it unstable and easly affected by mismatched tow bar height, low tyre presures , load in the wrong place , the trailer axle out of line or bent , mecanical issue with the towing vehicle like worn shock absorbers etc or sudden driver stering inputs.. all or a combination of these can cause snakeing and possible loss of control!! if everything is right then towing at 60 mph or more is possible and safe I would say to anyone if your outfit starts to feel unstable at lower speeds ask questions before there is another nasty avoidable accident...

Get you now - that makes perfect sense
Our rig is stable, but from a confidence point of view my mum can't bring herself to drive faster than 45mph (although she did creep up to just under 50mph on a dual carraigeway)
Having been in a horrific accident where speed, and now reading this possibly something else amiss (ie tyre pressure, as an older unchecked 510 - in hindsite), she is likely to remain a steady eddy. Her view is, if you had to break hard at speed, your going to lose it completely

 

[ROG]

Her view is, if you had to break hard at speed, your going to lose it completely

That is always the case with any type of trailer being towed by any sort of vehicle

There will always be a balance between the time in getting from A to B and what is a safe speed to tow at with the current combination/load

Getting that balance right usually comes with experience

 

[tallyho!]

Another factor is towing level. A trailer should be slightly nose down to avoid snaking. Never accelerate out of a snaking trailer/caravan. Always slow down.

 

[Maesfen]

60mph is not a speed merchant in the correct driving conditions.

A good journey for any animal is smooth speed changes and very smooth gradual braking and cornering.

Sitting at 40mph on the motorway because your trailer/vehicle combo, tyre pressures and tow bar height makes it too dangerous to go any faster has the added danger of someone backending you.

Honestly now, who checks their tyre pressures and tyre condition every time they tow?

Starting from bottom up. Yes, we do because the trailer isn't used very much!

I think you have to juggle motorway speed with what you are comfortable with yourself. If you feel harried if you go faster/are pushed faster by other traffic then you should drive at the speed you feel most comfortable with regarding the conditions and your load. That advice comes from an advanced police driver; he says it's a load of bull that you should drive faster than you're comfortable with as that's when accidents are more likely to happen.

Absolutely agree that driving horses should be as smooth as milk and gentle. After all, think about how many turns a roundabout has for them especially when you consider they are almost blindfold, they can only feel the changes of direction.

To me, 60 is a speed merchant, sorry! Happy to do that on dual carriegeways but not on our local roads thank you very much and that's without a trailer. We don't all live where straightish main roads or motorways are the norm (thank God); whenever we have to get on one we think they're all idiots and would rather get there in one piece than in an ambulance or worse. I positively hate motorways unless I'm in a wagon, if in a car I bury myself behind a book until we get off it again and am a shivering wreck the whole way yet would happily drive a wagon on them.

 

[Suechoccy]

Honestly now, who checks their tyre pressures and tyre condition every time they tow?

yup. every time. car as well as trailer too (505 and a Fourtrak).

The 5 mins it takes to go round with a tyre pressure gauge and if need be, a footpump, is well worth it for the extra peace-of-mind it gives me before setting off, irrespective of how short or quick the journey is.

I'm gobsmacked that people would NOT check their tyre pressures before transporting a live load.

 

[posie_honey]

what a horrid experience for you. i hope you find a cause of some sort if only to give yourself confidence back for towing again.

i've read the whole of this thread and i must admit the thing i'm most scared of is the people who think that towing at 40 on a motorway or good duel carriageway is acceptable or safe! Or people who 'know' that their trailer snakes over this speed!!

i'm not advocating doing stupid speeds at all - but honestly - surely that is a really loud warning sign to you that there is something horribly wrong with your set up?!

 

[welshcobabe]

Well I have had this happen to me towing and empty 505 with a defender landrover, however it was a blow out on the landrover that caused the problem. I didnt tip over but those driving behind said at one point both landrover and trailer were on two wheels. I turned into it and jackknifed the trailer and came to a standstill on the motorway facing the wrong way. How I didnt hit anything or anything hit me is one of my 9 lives gone.

I would say that over 55 it too fast with horse on board but that is just me I would not be comfortable going over 50. I can truly understand your feeings but it is a bit like falling off the horse you need to get back on and I have towed since and been fine.

I have since change old landrover for a landrover discovery and that tows like a dream, so in a way because the vehichle has changed it has made me feel better.

 

[ROG]

As a truck and car driver I would expect a horse trailer combination to be found in lane 1 doing between 50 and 55 mph

 

[Honey08]

As I said in a previous post on this thread, I had a trailer snake out of control and thankfully jacknife, ending up facing the wrong way on the hard shoulder. This was a small trailer with a 4x4 panda many years ago. Something like that makes you realise how quickly it happens, and do everything you can not to ever put yourself in that position - especially with the horses onboard.

I don't enjoy towing the trailer (OH does mostly) but when I do, I go at 50mph on the motorways and dual carriageways. Even confident OH wouldn't go over 55. Its just not worth letting speed become a possible factor. In my car, I usually drive too fast on motorways, and enjoy the fact that I will never risk a ticket when with the horses!!

ps hubby is a mechanic and dad an engineer, so trailers are set up properly. The caution comes from past disasters....