Improvement is ugly: yes or no?

I agree with the majority of posters in that some of the steps on the road to improvement, when taken out of context, can look a bit 'ugly'. However when you see all the steps in order you can see the progress and the 'ugliness' is no longer there as you can see the journey as a whole.
Brightbay, I also partially agree with you about working through resistance, but not wholly. My lad is the laziest sod going to is obviously reluctant about going forwards, therefore he is going to resist against me insisting he does. In some instances working through resistance is the only way forward (and yes eveything was checked).
 
What is ugly though?!

I describe getting far to closeto a fence or making an akward jump as ugly but they are neccessary parts of training in my eyes.
 
It depends.

What do you mean by ugly? The horse actively resisting and arguing with the rider? Or the horse simply not looking like Valegro? There is nothing ugly about a green horse going round soft and relaxed and tentatively starting to take a contact.

Moments of resistance when teaching a horse to carry itself differently are expected. When those moments of resistance are actually most of the ride and this is goes on for months and months, then perhaps a change of tactics is needed.
 
Caol Ila said:
It depends.

What do you mean by ugly? The horse actively resisting and arguing with the rider? Or the horse simply not looking like Valegro? There is nothing ugly about a green horse going round soft and relaxed and tentatively starting to take a contact.
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Yes, to me none of the green horse learning is ugly but the horse arguing, resisting, tail swishing etc. is.
 
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I think that ugly is probally the wrong word ,but I understand what Lolo is getting at I think she means "lack of harmony " so I think yes when you are training at times lack of harmony is evitable if you are seeking to improve a horse whose basics are not good or who physically finds certain things hard or whose temperament is not easy then there will be a lack of harmony .
Harmony is the what you are aiming for .
The Armas thread shows that older horses who have been worked one way can learn in time with consistent training to go another way.
It's quite easy to sit on a horse and look pretty but sometimes you need to make things happen then at times it may look raggy about the edges but you must be an effective rider to improve and reschool horses sometimes to be effective it might look look pretty but as long as you are well trained and understand the process it's not really on issue if it does not look great at times.
 
amandap said:
Yes, to me none of the green horse learning is ugly but the horse arguing, resisting, tail swishing etc. is.
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I do wish that riders would realise that very often resistance happens because the horse either doesn't understand what is being asked for the rider is asking for the wrong thing, or in the wrong way. Poor riding is ugly imo.
 
amandap said:
Yes, to me none of the green horse learning is ugly but the horse arguing, resisting, tail swishing etc. is.
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I do wish that riders would realise that very often resistance happens because the horse either doesn't understand what is being asked, or the rider is asking for the wrong thing, or in the wrong way. Poor riding is ugly imo.
 
I agree, Pearlsasinger. I also add that sometimes the horse is physically incapable of doing what is asked,or finds it painful or uncomfortable. To me, watching that scenario is very ugly.
I also agree with Pigeon - taking time to allow understanding and comfort to develop isn't ever ugly.
 
To be quite frank, if my training of my youngsters looked ugly to others (and myself) for weeks on end I would most definitely be giving my training process a huge overhaul. With a young or green horse yes for sure there will be moments of 'ugh' or 'meh' but that's it, just a few moments out of a long stretch of training. I see no reason why training a young or inexperienced horse should be ugly. Concessions are made for these horses, time is put in and progression should be pleasurable to watch and ride through. Everyone has their own methods of training however, and that's up to them how they go about it. Personally I like unison and I strive for it with my crew.
 
I'm not sure Lolo was referring to the training of young horses. My feeling is that the thread is about re-training older horses who have started off going one way, and are being introduced to a more correct way of going. It's pretty difficult for very single second of re-training to be pretty, unless the horse is practically robotic. I don't mind a horse arguing a bit, and I'm prepared to change my way of riding to meet a horse half way - but even when riding as tactfully as possible, there's usually a stage where you do have to lay down the law a bit. If you don't, the horse isn't going to learn that particular lesson. I try and make any 'discussions' short and as sweet as possible, but I won't avoid a discussion just for the sake of not upsetting a horse temporarily.
 
Auslander said:
I'm not sure Lolo was referring to the training of young horses. My feeling is that the thread is about re-training older horses who have started off going one way, and are being introduced to a more correct way of going. It's pretty difficult for very single second of re-training to be pretty, unless the horse is practically robotic. I don't mind a horse arguing a bit, and I'm prepared to change my way of riding to meet a horse half way - but even when riding as tactfully as possible, there's usually a stage where you do have to lay down the law a bit. If you don't, the horse isn't going to learn that particular lesson. I try and make any 'discussions' short and as sweet as possible, but I won't avoid a discussion just for the sake of not upsetting a horse temporarily.
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We get a lot of mature, already backed horses in here for training and I still couldn't class their re-training lessons as ugly. Many are completely changing the discipline so yes learning something new, or learning something totally different to what they are used to is certainly not uncommon practice at my farm however the sessions are the same as with my own youngsters, there are moments of 'ugh' but there definitely isn't any whole sessions where I'd be cringing to ride through or watch. I have no qualms whatsoever picking a horse up on certain points and working through them. Upsetting a horse for a few moments in order to get the point across is just fine by me.
 
I agree with the later poster who say that it doesn't need to be ugly ever. It may not be "pretty" for a while, or "together", but if it is ugly then the rider is not reasoning and finding out what works for each particular horse, the rider IMO is stuck in their ways and not a listening rider. I might have a few "you will do what you're told" moments with a horse that is having a strop or nap, but only for a short time - if the strops and naps went on for long then you have to rethink the way you're asking and wonder if you're doing too much too soon.
 
Spring Feather said:
We get a lot of mature, already backed horses in here for training and I still couldn't class their re-training lessons as ugly. Many are completely changing the discipline so yes learning something new, or learning something totally different to what they are used to is certainly not uncommon practice at my farm however the sessions are the same as with my own youngsters, there are moments of 'ugh' but there definitely isn't any whole sessions where I'd be cringing to ride through or watch. I have no qualms whatsoever picking a horse up on certain points and working through them. Upsetting a horse for a few moments in order to get the point across is just fine by me.
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I think we're singing off the same hymn sheet!
 
Lolo said:
Do you agree that improvement isn't necessarily nice to watch
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Yes.

I try to post and explain the less nice bits of Figs journey; because that's what it is. A journey. It's not perfect and happy and easy and pretty ALL the time.

Sometimes it depends on the horse. Fig is desperate to please... A little naive and green and very much a 'yes' horse, which makes our progress fairly light hearted and our arguments few and far between.

If you have a horse that has been spoilt, allowed to get away with murder, or is generally a difficult swine whose response is always 'make me', then progress IS going to be on the uglier side of things.

People verbalise their opinion, horses have to show it.

It's unrealistic to think that any horse can be perfect from beginning to end, I bet even Valegro has 'make me' days.
 
Jesstickle said:
I think people are taking ugly to mean different things!

I don 't battle with my horse ever but I would still describe plenty of bits of the learning process as ugly!
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I know exactly what you mean.
With a young horse especially, even with correct sympathetic riding until the horse understands the question .....the process can look ungainly.
 
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