"In Defense of Letting Your Dog Off Lead."

[Tiddlypom]

I certainly won't. Keeping a dog on a lead for springing a fox once in 12 years does not strike me as sensible!

That's not how your post read. I took it that his recall was questionable.

If he has good recall, and you don't let him out of sight in an area with known wildlife such as foxes and deer, then off lead is fine.

My own dog will chase small furries, so she is kept on a lead.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Goose sprang (sprung?!) his first pheasant today. He was apparently delighted and took off at speed but came back when asked (plus he can't fly, so.....)

 

[P3LH]

I just don’t get it. I have never understood why some people think it’s a right to let their dog off. I have one with great recall but who is overly friendly and a bit pesty to others, one with great recall but who is hard of hearing so more than ten feet and he’s free range, and one with basically no recall at all unless it’s a confined space where she’s tried the boundary line and there’s a tennis ball involved. I don’t see it as an issue to have majority of walks on lead.

 

[PinnyGig]

I like Outside Magazine, but as a non-dog person and someone who has to engage with them while out hacking, this article annoyed me. I was wondering what you dog-folk thought of it. https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/active-families/dogs-off-leash/

"Life for our canine friends goes really fast. Better to let them enjoy their freedom and make their own decisions, which, for Argo, means chasing, always unsuccessfully, wild hares, deer, elk, moose, and the occasional feral cat."

Should you really be allowing your dog to harass the local wildlife? That's why so many trail systems in the United States have leash requirements in the first place - to stop dogs from bothering wildlife. Dogs don't care if they are chasing a squirrel or an endangered/threatened species. Besides, if they are chasing deer, hares, etc., what's to stop them from chasing cyclists, horse riders, and livestock?

"Those who aren’t on leash typically poop in places where nobody will see or be bothered by the relatively harmless pile of excrement."

There's no good answer for how to dispose of vast amounts of dog sh1t no matter what you do, but I have read that too much of it, left in the woods, can harm ecosystems not adapted to that amount of poo from predators concentrated in relatively small areas. Dog sh1t is not relatively harmless. It's nasty stuff.

"For those of us with energetic dogs, there’s nothing better than giving them the freedom to roam and run. Argo and our terrier-mutt, Topaz, are great about sprinting their faces off, but always checking in and staying within a quarter-mile radius of my wife and me."

A quarter-mile is actually quite far. It drives me nuts when I see a dog running towards my horse, well out of sight of its owners. The owners have no idea that I am there, and if the dog locks onto the horse, the chances of recall get low. Nor would they know if it is approaching another person or dog who doesn't like dogs, a cow or sheep. Or a mountain lion.

ETA: Or a road.

"But also keep in mind that dogs are very trainable. You are capable, and they are capable. "

I don't think every dog is "capable" of being off-lead in unfenced areas.

He makes some good points about behaviour - at least from my ignorant point of view - but this piece has an entitled feel to it, a disdain towards wildlife and other trail users because his dogs need their freedom.

What a dickhead. Collie x Lab too so not a mix anyone with more than three brain cells to put in a pot would encourage and allow to get in a habit of obsessional chasing of anything.

Any dog that does that shit is stressed, anxious, getting revved up earlier and earlier each time they leave the house to the point they're at it before they even step foot outside.

That's not a happy dog it's going WAAAAAAAAAARGHHH!!!!!!!!!!! and doing nothing else so not even enjoying the time outside, smelling stuff, peeing on it, socialising with other dogs and being happy what with the WAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! cos the owner is a complete prick.

I am sick to death absolutely up to my last arse nerve with dog owners lately. Lock down dogs are everywhere only they're not puppies any more and they've not trained, they have no idea how to behave and owners never even think to try or have someone else train them.

That we still aren't anywhere near even giving serious thought to reintroducing a basic dog licensing and registration system in UK makes my piss boil.

Half these idiots we meet out and about I'm not sure are fit to keep goldfish. If they want dogs they need to at least be willing to go the time and trouble of filling out a few forms, paying a small fee and having to actually take responsibility and step up to do what they are supposed to do without it being a legal requirement.

Not just that, it's decency, manners and basic courtesy to think about what other people and animals might or might not be happy with. Same with parents that think they can let their kids run around in restaurants or come sprinting over to a young or nervous dog squealing and arms outstretched and that you and your dog should just be OK with it. I've stopped a few young kids and had parents all uppity and taking a tone like my dogs are the problem cos they aren't safe to have a three year old snot covered ass-shit stinking kid climbing on their head and pulling their ears.

 

[maya2008]

It’s really not hard to train a dog to come when it is called, and to stay with you when being walked. People seem to struggle to find the time to do this though.

 

[cauda equina]

Or perhaps they don't think it's important

I was talking to a guy the other day who said 'A *dog breed*'s gonna do what a *dog breed*'s gonna do'
Well of course it is, if you let it

 

[splashgirl45]

What a dickhead. Collie x Lab too so not a mix anyone with more than three brain cells to put in a pot would encourage and allow to get in a habit of obsessional chasing of anything.

Any dog that does that shit is stressed, anxious, getting revved up earlier and earlier each time they leave the house to the point they're at it before they even step foot outside.

That's not a happy dog it's going WAAAAAAAAAARGHHH!!!!!!!!!!! and doing nothing else so not even enjoying the time outside, smelling stuff, peeing on it, socialising with other dogs and being happy what with the WAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! cos the owner is a complete prick.

I am sick to death absolutely up to my last arse nerve with dog owners lately. Lock down dogs are everywhere only they're not puppies any more and they've not trained, they have no idea how to behave and owners never even think to try or have someone else train them.

That we still aren't anywhere near even giving serious thought to reintroducing a basic dog licensing and registration system in UK makes my piss boil.

Half these idiots we meet out and about I'm not sure are fit to keep goldfish. If they want dogs they need to at least be willing to go the time and trouble of filling out a few forms, paying a small fee and having to actually take responsibility and step up to do what they are supposed to do without it being a legal requirement.

Not just that, it's decency, manners and basic courtesy to think about what other people and animals might or might not be happy with. Same with parents that think they can let their kids run around in restaurants or come sprinting over to a young or nervous dog squealing and arms outstretched and that you and your dog should just be OK with it. I've stopped a few young kids and had parents all uppity and taking a tone like my dogs are the problem cos they aren't safe to have a three year old snot covered ass-shit stinking kid climbing on their head and pulling their ears.

My collie was crossed with a lab and I’m sure she arrived to me at 8 weeks trained. I only had to show her something once and she got it, she was the easiest dog I’ve ever had especially comparing her to my terriers. A dog license isn’t the answer as the responsible people will register and the numpties will ignore it.. I think it should be made more difficult to buy a puppy.. people should have to attend a short course to show them the basics,, things like how to housetrain , how to socialise your puppy with both people and other dogs, how to teach them to walk on a lead, how to train recall… so many novice owners have no idea and bumble through to the detriment of the dog…. Until the owners have attended the course they are not allowed to buy a puppy. This is me in la la land as I know it would never happen

 

[Annette4]

It’s really not hard to train a dog to come when it is called, and to stay with you when being walked. People seem to struggle to find the time to do this though.

I'd argue that as someone who as tried and still has 2 who have poor recall (one admittedly an adult rescue, the other was home from a puppy) but that's why they don't go off lead in public. I've been trying for nearly 5 years with Dobby, genetics play a part and the saluki middle finger is strong with him but it doesn't mean haven't tried or don't care.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It’s really not hard to train a dog to come when it is called, and to stay with you when being walked. People seem to struggle to find the time to do this though.

For some dogs it is, and therefore they should be managed accordingly.

 

[skinnydipper]

It’s really not hard to train a dog to come when it is called, and to stay with you when being walked. People seem to struggle to find the time to do this though.

What breeds do you have? Are they bred to work for/with people?

 

[SAujla]

Training a recall isn't easy, and I've made the mistake of training a recall then letting it slip so had to re-train. I'm not sure if some people think a recall is automatic with a dog or bringing a ball back counts but it does take some effort.

 

[blackcob]

It’s really not hard to train a dog to come when it is called, and to stay with you when being walked. People seem to struggle to find the time to do this though.

It's really not that simple. I was a great advocate of 'it's how you train them, not the breed' because I was desperately proud of having dogs that did things their breed wasn't supposed to do. The older I get, the more dogs I have and the more dogs I know in the wider circle of friends/family/training I see that I was lulled into a false sense of security by a particularly forgiving and capable first dog; I have so much more respect for the role of genetics these days.

I never did get a 100% solid recall out of my Siberians and they were managed accordingly. The latest of a different breed has been near perfect from day one, with no particular effort.

 

[AmyMay]

Training a recall isn't easy, and I've made the mistake of training a recall then letting it slip so had to re-train. I'm not sure if some people think a recall is automatic with a dog or bringing a ball back counts but it does take some effort.

A friend has a little dog whose recall is not great. She has worked tremendously hard on it (and continues to do so).

 

[PinnyGig]

Some dogs are an absolute doddle and barely need training and some turn you grey trying to train a good solid recall and master the “emergency stop” but anyone that isn't sure, doesn't have the experience or confidence in themselves or their dogs should just clip on a lead and not risk it.

I have two collies and one is more like a fat lazy lab. He came to us at 1yr old from a huge farm he'd been bought as a puppy for a small fortune (his Dad is five time winner of the international supreme trials and his Dad and Grandad have won the world brace championships together twice) so a lot was expected was of him and he couldn't give one for sheep and he skipped around marvelling at the flowers and butterflies so came home to us. He's so pleasant to take anywhere I don't even put a lead on him automatically. Always take one and have a slip lead with me but he's so good, without having to say a word he trots just a little bit in front checking in to make sure he's not straying further than he knows is about the limit, always switches to stay on the inside on pavements or when we pass people and I only need give a quick whistle and tap my leg “Come here sweet” and he's there sat by my feet looking up at me to see what's next like a marine he's superb.

HOWEVER this is not your average collie he's an exception to the rule.

My other dog is the most wilful, strong, smart collie and the stuff of dreams to sheepdog trainers and farmers cos she's lovely natured and friendly but has a way about her that means sorting and moving a load of cocky James Dean type rebel sheep in a second. She chased everything and anything that moved as a puppy (chased a pheasant for ten solid minutes through Cropton Forest once and pheasants keep running so she kept chasing. Took over a year to really have a solid recall and master the emergency stop button with her.

Lot of people asked why I went to all that time, effort and spent hours every day and didn't just put her on a lead instead. They couldn't grasp that because she was so highly sensitive and easily triggered into chasing (which can't be trained out of them either you have to manage it) If she got off a lead for any reason I would have no control over her and no chance of stopping what might then happen.

She's really friendly and goes squeaking and tail wagging and wiggling at the horses but I never let her roam loose or will be able to go hacking with her or bring her along to any horse trials because she gets on her toes just wants to sprint and race and get in front all “Let's do this horses, look at me I'm faster!!!”

People have developed this mentality that their dog is behind tarred with a brush because it's this breed or that one ("Why should my dog have to be stopped from enjoying his time out just cos he's ____ enter bully breed here??")

Not about your dog – never is. Makes no odds if it's a big ass mastiff or a teacup yorkie. You're being asked to get your dog back and under control for whatever reason someone asks. If you don't see why you should even though there's a sign saying saying dogs must be on leads or don't understand or respect how bad it feels for people with a real fear of dogs - or you just waste time standing there arguing the toss and asking why, it's not something anyone can help you with.

 

[splashgirl45]

I always thought I was a good dog trainer till I got my 3 rd sight hound , she let me know I wasn’t??. I have now got another sight hound who, at the moment has brilliant recall and is very easy BUT he is only 5 months old . I am hoping he won’t change but am not holding my breath..

 

[skinnydipper]

Always take one and have a slip lead with me but he's so good, without having to say a word he trots just a little bit in front checking in to make sure he's not straying further than he knows is about the limit, always switches to stay on the inside on pavements or when we pass people

Highway Code. Rule 56

Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists or horse riders.

 

[skinnydipper]

People have developed this mentality that their dog is behind tarred with a brush because it's this breed or that one ("Why should my dog have to be stopped from enjoying his time out just cos he's ____ enter bully breed here??")

What?

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

It took us ages to establish a proper recall, lots of longline/gentle tug to encourage recall and crucially, we only went to the park until we were sure they’d come when told. We did lots of ignoring other dogs which I’m sure has helped to get them going past with (almost) no fuss. Mitch had to be told twice today but did as asked. I don’t want them annoying other dogs.

I was a bit worried at a huge retriever trying to jump on/play with the boys today, Mitch was desperate to get away and the owner was useless so I had to tell the dog no. Luckily my OH was slightly ahead so Mitch circled round to him. It’s way too big a dog to ignore it’s owner. ?

 

[druid]

I've got gundogs so recall is easy - they want to please! If you are the source of engagement and fun then recall is easier....if the dog finds his fun chasing birds and bunnies then why would he come back to you?

 

[Tiddlypom]

I've got gundogs so recall is easy - they want to please! If you are the source of engagement and fun then recall is easier....if the dog finds his fun chasing birds and bunnies then why would he come back to you?

Absolutely this with the JRT.

She will happily come to call and enjoy a good belly tickle (her fav thing) if there's nothing else going on. A rabbit, squirrel, chicken or cat (apart from our cat) is always going to be far more exciting for her than a belly rub.

So she is only walked on lead.

 

[maya2008]

Struggling with the quote thing today but…

If your dog cannot be trained, it obviously has to stay on a lead unless in a securely fenced area. The majority of dogs can be trained though. Between myself and friends we have (and have had):

- lab crosses
- golden retriever
- lurcher
- rottie
- various terriers incl farm bred JRTs with prey drive
- collies and crosses
- spaniels
- boxer
- various indeterminate mixes (rescues)
- pug (proper lapdog, that one!)

I don’t train with treats (prey is essentially food so why come back for a treat if you can chase a rat/rabbit etc). I wouldn’t put a hunting type dog in a field with sheep off lead either - setting the dog up to succeed definitely helps! At various times last summer I saw dogs similar to all the above completely out of control and with no recall. They aren’t all untrainable. My parents thought their spaniels were untrainable and they really weren’t. It wasn’t even particularly difficult to install some polite manners and a recall, just time consuming. Now I fully accept that there are dogs that cannot be trained - but they are not the majority. For 90% of the dogs out there, a full recall and nice manners is completely achievable.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Just a bit of guidance, 'IF I CAN DO IT, YOU CAN TOO!' isn't generally helpful for those who are genuinely struggling with a training issue.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I'm working through the Total Recall book with Ivy and current 'problem' is she hears the jingle of me picking up the whistle on the lanyard and then I can't recall her because she's already there! We haven't started on the 'proofing' bit yet. I'm not sure we will ever be properly off lead but I think the training is still important (trying the training at least).

 

[skinnydipper]

I don’t train with treats (prey is essentially food so why come back for a treat if you can chase a rat/rabbit etc).

Could you share training tips for the benefit of those less experienced than yourself, please

 

[splashgirl45]

As I said before I’ve had collies, terriers, lurchers and mongrels and there was only one that I could not recall and that was one lurcher… terriers were hard work but got there in the end, this one lurcher had a high prey drive so wasn’t walked off lead where I knew there would be something to chase. I started walking in my local park because of this and she could be off lead all of the time, her recall was great and she was sociable to both dogs and humans of all ages..

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I've got gundogs so recall is easy - they want to please! If you are the source of engagement and fun then recall is easier....if the dog finds his fun chasing birds and bunnies then why would he come back to you?

Some, not all! Our trainer told us to simply walk away from Zak where was reluctant to recall (in her training field) It worked, he was reluctant to be left behind.

The OH and I were happy to make utter fools of ourselves to be more exciting than other distractions in the park with the youngsters, we probably looked mad, but I always remember watching a training programme-something like Dog Borstal? The bloke dealing with a ‘naughty’ springer said ‘Basically, the owners are too boring for a springer.’ Harsh, but they did come across as unmotivated.

I still make a big fuss of all 3 dogs when they do as asked, it’s an ingrained habit. Bear looked at me like I was bonkers when I praised him for peeing today. ?

 

[AmyMay]

Some, not all! Our trainer told us to simply walk away from Zak where was reluctant to recall (in her training field) It worked, he was reluctant to be left behind.

The OH and I were happy to make utter fools of ourselves to be more exciting than other distractions in the park with the youngsters, we probably looked mad, but I always remember watching a training programme-something like Dog Borstal? The bloke dealing with a ‘naughty’ springer said ‘Basically, the owners are too boring for a springer.’ Harsh, but they did come across as unmotivated.

I still make a big fuss of all 3 dogs when they do as asked, it’s an ingrained habit. Bear looked at me like I was bonkers when I praised him for peeing today. ?

Yep, love the walking away thing.

And I loved Dog Borstal.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Yep, love the walking away thing.

And I loved Dog Borstal.

Works a treat with Mitch.

It was Dog Borstal! The bloke on it was BRUTAL!

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's not harsh at all, a lot of owners I work have problems because they don't realise they are being deeply boring and that's why they have no engagement with their dogs.

 

[maya2008]

Just a bit of guidance, 'IF I CAN DO IT, YOU CAN TOO!' isn't generally helpful for those who are genuinely struggling with a training issue.

But that’s not what this thread is about, is it? It’s about the increasingly large number of dog owners who think it’s ok to wander the countryside with untrained dogs off lead, letting them chase all and sundry (including my child on his young pony the other day, by a dog nearly the size of the pony). Most of those people could get help, and could get their dogs trained.

Thankfully, in our situation, the pony and child were trained, so all ended ok. Why should the dog owner not have the same responsibility to control their animal? If you can’t control it, put it on a lead. If you want it off lead, get it trained. And if you can’t do it yourself, ask for help. There’s no shame in getting assistance from a professional. Plenty in allowing your animal to hurt or frighten others.

And no, that’s not aimed at anyone on this thread, more anonymously at all the situations I saw all summer long. And this isn’t a new phenomenon - when I was seven, a neighbourhood, off-lead dog attacked my juvenile lab cross, who was sitting in the front garden with us. My dog was so traumatised by that incident that she never trusted another dog again, and became dog aggressive, wanting to attack first before they went for her. Training kept her safe from them and them from her, but her trust never came back. A few years after that, our older cat was killed by the same dog. Its owner didn’t see why they should keep it on the lead…