Incident with land owner - WWYD?

[Kallibear]

Of course she should not have been on the land , but it was a mistake.

By the sound sound of it, it was no 'mistake' and something done knowingly and repetatively. It's just she got caught this time. I know people (often teenage riders) who will ride just about anywhere as long as it's fun, regardless of bad manners or permission. They give everyone else a bad name.

 

[*hic*]

It might be well noted that the LO is a horsey person and as such may well have held the rein in attempt to calm down a horse getting increasingly agitated by its rider's behaviour.

 

[wench]

If anyone did that to my grandad they would be sorry...

 

[Clava]

I cannot understand why the OP would not give name and details?? Only someone hiding something wouldn't or someone not willing to take the consequences of being in the wrong.

 

[MurphysMinder]

If the gate had been locked or shut even, then OP probably not have entered the field.. perhaps if all farmers who don't want trespassers should take heed, and secure their fields properly then incidents like described would not happen..

Are you seriously suggesting farmers should lock all their gates to stop people trespassing - why on earth should they have to! The farmers round here are quite happy for dog walkers to go in some of their fields, but horses are a different matter, particularly after all this wet weather. I have just been looking at the mess our unshod pony has made in the field just having a little play, I hate to think what a larger shod horse would have done.
Just one other thought, if the LO was horsey and fairly well known locally I would have thought the OP would have known him too so perhaps was aware he wasn't a random stranger/axe murderer!

 

[ester]

I wouldn't want to give my correct details to someone I didn't know....

I would have given fakes though.

ditto that an open gate is NOT an open invitation

 

[MagicMelon]

Why do there have to be signs saying it is private land???! Just because it is a field, doesn't mean it doesn't belong to anybody.

I'm afraid I agree with the above. you were caught trespassing fair and square and while I don't condone this man's behaviour, you were in the wrong.

I would go to the meeting and apologise and in future stick to designated bridleways and land that you have the land owner's permission to be on.

Erm, depends where you are in the UK actually. Up here in Scotland we are allowed to go anywhere. Im allowed to ride round any farmers fields I like by law (although I have asked for permission out of courtesy and dont tend to ride round them very often as I dont want to mess them up at all).

Laws down in England are obviously different, but this girl did NOT need this threatening man to grab hold of her horses rein which could have caused a serious accident. He acted very dangerously and OP was clearly scared. I probably would have done exactly the same in her situation! No, I would not apologise to the man - I would explain how badly your horse could have reacted and that he was unecessarily threatening, as a result you were terrified and hit him in self defence.

Someone has said that the man didnt mind riders on his land and had the girl got permission then he would have allowed her to. So he obviously wasnt concerned about any damage to his land, so he was simply irritated that she hadn't asked first? Right...

 

[RunToEarth]

RunToEarth, can I just ask you what you would do if a total stranger approached you and grabbed your horses reins, when you were on your own and in the middle of nowhere?? Im guessing from your name that you hunt?? So a saboteur grabs your horses reins on a hunt?? Would you just sit there or dismount?? Is it really so hard to put yourself in the OPs position regardless of whether she should have been there or not?? Just interested!

if you read my earlier post I did a couple of seasons ago, I was frightened, but continued to walk forwards and after a while he let go. It never entered my mind to get off or batter him with my hunting whip.

 

[Jesstickle]

Just one other thought, if the LO was horsey and fairly well known locally I would have thought the OP would have known him too so perhaps was aware he wasn't a random stranger/axe murderer!

In fairness probably not. I grew up there and never met him until I was an adult despite knowing all the other local farmers.

I wouldn't give my details either. But then I wouldn't get myself in to the situation someone asked for them.

 

[Patterdale]

So glad OP has been outed. Readingbetween the lines of the op it was obvious she was possibly being economical with the truth.

I will echo what others have said - if she had done that to my grandad, I wouldn't be settling for a mediation meeting and an apology.

I'd be printing off the OP for the police, and pressing charges against her for assault.

 

[joeanne]

I've read all 15 chuffing pages.
Its no blooming wonder we as riders are prevented from riding over farmland etc......it seems many of us would lack the manners to ask first!
We moan non stop about drivers who are rude and dangerous.....land owners who are rude and threatening, yet all I seem to hear these days is rude RIDERS!!!
MM given the incident happened in Norfolk, I would say it falls under English Law, which is if it ain't yours, you don't ride over it without prior permission.
And if OP managed to leave welts she MUST have hit him repeatedly and hard. Whether he was right or wrong to hold the OP's rein, to repeatedly hit an old man is not on.
Jess pass my best wishes on to the gentleman in question. I hope he recovers quickly from his injuries and is feeling better soon.

 

[MagicMelon]

So glad OP has been outed. Readingbetween the lines of the op it was obvious she was possibly being economical with the truth.

I will echo what others have said - if she had done that to my grandad, I wouldn't be settling for a mediation meeting and an apology.

I'd be printing off the OP for the police, and pressing charges against her for assault.

Why assume the other person is telling the truth? You have no idea, OP could be the one to be believed here. At the end of the day, Im sure OP doesnt make a habit of just wacking random people when out on a hack - it doesnt matter if he's a grandad or not, he clearly scared OP enough that she felt she had to react.

 

[1987]

I'm sorry but you were trespassing, if landowners have to put 'private' signs up at every gateway they would be bankrupt.

Say if next doors rabbit was happily munching your grass and flowers in your garden you would instintively pick it up and march around to next door to give them their rabbit back. You wouldn't be very happy and they may have thought you have been rude and aggresive with their rabbit and them. It is a similar situation but in different circumstances.

I don't condone the landowner's reaction at all as it seems a little heavy handed and unnecessary.

 

[Jesstickle]

Well, as I haven't told an alternative story of events, just given back ground, it would seem unlikely I'm lying surely?

He probably did grab hold of her, he probably did scare her. She still shouldn't have been there and further compounded the situation by being down right rude and she certainly shouldn't have set about beating someone with a riding crop.

If this had been the other way round, female landowner, male rider would you all think it was ok that he'd beaten her with a crop?

 

[AmyMay]

Jess, show him this thread - and ask him if he'd like to comment (although assuming legal proceedings may prevent this).

 

[JennBags]

Yep. Still astounded!

Rockysmum, the police need the victim to press charges, he seems like a reasonable man who has agreed to try to rescue this amicably. The police can't just press charges on their own without some sort of backup.

Jeeve, the LO was known to the OP, and it didn't sound like he was going to assault her, in fact I found this part of the story the most unbelievable & actually it seemed hysterical to me.

Shadeyoak, an open gate most certainly should not be an open invitation Absolutely disgusted that anyone can have this view.

Irishdan, and Magic Melon, this was not a total stranger approaching her & grabbing her reins for no reason. It was the LO (who was known to the OP) who reasonably asked her what she was doing on his land, and then asked for her details which she refused to give. Maybe her horse was jumping around a bit, she was probably upset from being caught out where she shouldn't be & transmitted this to the horse. The LO then may have held a rein to try to keep the horse calm, which the by now hysterical OP, feeling cross at being caught out, misinterpreted & started beating him. Just wrong. No one should behave like that.

 

[JennBags]

Oops just read jt's update that the op didn't necessarily know the LO by sight.

Agree if it were the other way round, everyone would be up in arms against the rider, because how could a woman ever be threatening to a man

 

[Jesstickle]

JB- I don't think the OP probably does know him. Other people do but OP may well not have done.

I don't ever see him anymore (don't live anywhere near now) the only way I can pass this back is through a chain of people and frankly I don't really want to get involved. Both parties are adults and I'm sure will resolve this between them. I only wanted to point out the missing facts from the OP as they were relevant to the (huge) debate going on. No point having an argument if you don't know everything is there?

 

[AmyMay]

No point having an argument if you don't know everything is there?

Are you joking??? It's a basic principle of HHO.

 

[NeverSayNever]

there are not automatic rights that come with being a landowner that allow you to take the law into to your own hands and scare young girls. His age means nothing, he may have grown up Granddaughters but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been or wasn’t a threat to her with sinister intentions!

I still say that he was ultimately in the wrong! Yes, she was in the wrong to a lesser extent by being where she shouldn’t have been going by the ass that is English law, however he CROSSED A LINE and if he’d let go sooner he wouldn’t have welts at all!

 

[AmyMay]

however he CROSSED A LINE and if he’s let go sooner he wouldn’t have welts at all!

Which line did he cross?

 

[NeverSayNever]

Which line did he cross?

the one where he grabbed her rein and would not let go. Interpret it how you like but in my book, THAT is behaving in a threatening manner and no matter what she had done to his land he had no right to make her feel threatened.

 

[*hic*]

NSN - OP is married so is probably not a young girl!

 

[martlin]

If the gate had been locked or shut even, then OP probably not have entered the field.. perhaps if all farmers who don't want trespassers should take heed, and secure their fields properly then incidents like described would not happen..

So, let me get it straight, ok?
Lets assume that I have 30 acres of winter wheat - the wheat rarely has tendency to leg it on the road... You are suggesting I should fence it, thus spend, what, £7K to just make sure you don't trample it on your horse?
You must be kidding me

 

[Clava]

I still say that he was ultimately in the wrong! Yes, she was in the wrong to a lesser extent by being where she shouldn’t have been going by the ass that is English law, however he CROSSED A LINE and if he’d let go sooner he wouldn’t have welts at all!

Outrageous, it is OK to beat a man for holding onto a bridle? What if he was attempting to lead the horse off the property to prevent the animal from further damage to land and trespass? and why not give details as most people can be tracked down anyway as was the case in this example - just ask a few questions locally and most people can locate a horse rider's home.

 

[Capriole]

I cannot understand why the OP would not give name and details?? Only someone hiding something wouldn't or someone not willing to take the consequences of being in the wrong.

Now, I dont trespass on other peoples land, but regardless, I wouldn;t be giving out my details to an angry man I dont know (anyone can say they're a landowner, doesnt mean they are) and who was shouting at me and holding on to my horse.
Whether or not I felt threatened, which I would have, Ive had my very own stalker in the past and giving out my personal details wouldn't be happening.

As to the rest of it, meh, my advice to the OP is still to take proper legal advice.

 

[Littlelegs]

Lots of people seem keen to defend her actions on the ground that she didn't know his intent. Perhaps same could be said of the Lo. Maybe he got hold of the rein to prevent her using the horse to mow him down, or to prevent her galloping off & damaging his land. The self defence argument works both ways.

 

[NeverSayNever]

Outrageous, it is OK to beat a man for holding onto a bridle? What if he was attempting to lead the horse off the property to prevent the animal from further damage to land and trespass? and why not give details as most people can be tracked down anyway as was the case in this example - just ask a few questions locally and most people can locate a horse rider's home.

he could have let go as she asked - the fact she had to use force to get away from him would make me question his motives - what was his next move? Assault, rape, murder??? THAT is outrageous, in this day and you can’t be too careful! As you rightly point out, he could have tracked her down easily so why try to detain her?

 

[Lady La La]

the wheat rarely has tendency to leg it on the road...

 

[*hic*]

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