Inflating Body Protectors

sally2008

sally2008

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I have no personal experience of these as I don't compete any more but, as I'm horsey, a friend has asked for help purchasing one for his 18 year old daughter so I thought I would consult the all-knowing HHO oracle :).

Any recommendations, moans, gripes or "avoid like the plague" info would be greatly appreciated please folks.
 
Why does he want one ?, I am assuming to go XC, and does he realise that they have to be worn with a normal BP underneath ?

I am a SJ judge and see quite a few people wearing them to SJ as they are less bulky than a normal BP, but they don't realise they have to be worn over one. There is an argument that is only for XC in case they don't inflate. In fact it is also the rule in SJ as in a few cases it has been shown they can break a rib if worn on their own. The rules do state 'must be worn over a normal BP'.
 
As above need to be worn over normal body protector for competitions some people do wear them at home without. There are only two makes on the market at the moment Point 2 and Hit Air they both have pros and cons, most people wear the Point 2 but this is partly due to them being launched quite a bit before Hit Air. Hit Air however dominate the motorycle inflated jacket market.
 
His daughter has asked him to buy one for her. She had a bad fall last year off and fractured a vertebra. She now wears a good fitting standard BP but has recently got a new job which involves bringing event horses back into work and I get the impression she's feeling a bit windy about the whole affair having nearly permanently crooked herself once.
 
sally2008 said:
Thanks ladies. Personally I think she would be better with a good quality made to measure standard BP.
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that's definitely the place to start, with the best bp which fits her perfectly.
btw, the debate on airjackets rages on on pages where it is allowed to. lots of very valid contributions from both sides here (you might need a coffee, there's a lot of it!)

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323742
 
Not convinced they need to be worn with a body protector to stop you breaking a rib - do motorcyclists wear body protectors under them? Nope.

I wear one hunting since this season, to stop me breaking my neck if I fall. I love it.
 
cptrayes said:
Not convinced they need to be worn with a body protector to stop you breaking a rib - do motorcyclists wear body protectors under them? Nope.

I wear one hunting since this season, to stop me breaking my neck if I fall. I love it.
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I'm not an expert and only quoting the BS reason for saying they need to be worn with a normal BP underneath.
 
motorcyclist falls are completely different so that isnt a valid argument im afraid cptrayes they wear far more protection to begin with my husband used to ride til he had his leg injury but still keeps in contact with his old biking friends he asked them about the airjacket when looking at getting me one the consensus was none of the serious bike riders wear them i watched the motogp with him and there wasnt a single airjacket which spoke volumes really it didnt really take off in the intended market so they expanded as for hunting in one fair cop but your not going to be flung in to a solid fence really which i can imagine is how ribs would be more than likely broken if you didn't have a body protector on
 
Sounds sensible of her to me, she's obv used to wearing a normal BP so an extra layer won't feel any different I wouldn't have thought.

I've also crushed vertebrae before and I'm seriously thinking of getting an inflatable to go over my BP when I break my youngster next year...
 
Well I bought one specifically to wear instead of a BP, not for anything strenuous, just hacking really
Had crashing fall hacking few months ago and cracked a few ribs, wasnt wearing a BP as my body shape means finding a comfortable one is a no go (and I have tried had well fitted racesafe) and I just cant/wont wear it every time.
My airjacket is hi viz and I am more than happy to wear it for long gallopy hacks
On balance am more likely to benefit from it than break a rib I feel?
 
My reason for wearing mine is that I don't want to break my neck and live. No body protector can help with that, only an air jacket will do it.
 
Let me get this straight cptrayes you are saying that if you break your neck in an airjacket it will kill you that's a pretty stupid & inflammatory thing to post on a public forum about a product TBH.
As an aside I'm a trauma radiographer, my husband is a surgeon in orthopaedics & trauma. We both concur that in certain types of falls an airjacket + bodyprotector will provide you with more protection than a body protector alone.
Having also studied how the airjacket inflates & looking at other falls (including Faith Cook's) we do not obviously see the air jacket causing injury.
 
glamourpuss said:
Let me get this straight cptrayes you are saying that if you break your neck in an airjacket it will kill you that's a pretty stupid & inflammatory thing to post on a public forum about a product TBH.
As an aside I'm a trauma radiographer, my husband is a surgeon in orthopaedics & trauma. We both concur that in certain types of falls an airjacket + bodyprotector will provide you with more protection than a body protector alone.
Having also studied how the airjacket inflates & looking at other falls (including Faith Cook's) we do not obviously see the air jacket causing injury.
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You misread me, sorry. I am saying that in an air jacket I am very unlikely to break my neck at all. If I don't have one on, it is a common hunting accident to break ones neck. I don't care much if I die from that, only the people left alive will care. But I would not want to break my neck and live, and wearing an air jacket makes that very unlikely because, by the way it works, it makes breaking my neck at all very unlikely.

I'm glad that you and your husband also think air jackets can prevent injury.
 
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Saratoga said:
Please tell me this is tongue is cheek? :confused:
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No, deadly serious. What is your problem with it?

A broken neck is a common hunting injury because of jumping at speed into drops and other uncertain landings. Personally, I would rather die of that injury than live and be severely disabled, because I will know nothing about it. An air jacket, as I have said above, will make it very unlikely that I will break my neck at all.

From people I talk to who do high risk horse activities like eventing at the higher levels and hunting at the front of the field, I am far from alone. I'm not sure why you would think that was tongue in cheek, I can assure you that it isn't.
 
Saratoga said:
I am just shocked that there are still people that think an air jacket will prevent you from breaking your neck...:(
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It will. Why are you shocked? Please point me to your evidence that having a thick fat tight collar of air around your neck will not help prevent you breaking it? Have you seen what stunt racing drivers wear around their necks? A big fat tight collar. You have head restraints in your car to stop whiplash injuries and the collar on a Point Two does the same job. Have you tried one? I can assure you that when it inflates it is extremely difficult to snap your head backwards.
 
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cptrayes said:
It will. Why are you shocked? Please point me to your evidence that having a thick fat tight collar of air around your neck will not help prevent you breaking it? Have you seen what stunt racing drivers wear around their necks? A big fat tight collar. You have head restraints in your car to stop whiplash injuries and the collar on a Point Two does the same job. Have you tried one? I can assure you that when it inflates it is extremely difficult to snap your head backwards.
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And if you land on the top of your head and compress your neck?? What restraint is going to stop you breaking your neck then? Or if you have a rotational fall and break your neck on landing before the air jacket has even gone off??

And the HANS device that is worn is motor racing is entirely different.
 
cptrayes said:
It will. Why are you shocked? Please point me to your evidence that having a thick fat tight collar of air around your neck will not help prevent you breaking it? Have you seen what stunt racing drivers wear around their necks? A big fat tight collar. You have head restraints in your car to stop whiplash injuries and the collar on a Point Two does the same job. Have you tried one? I can assure you that when it inflates it is extremely difficult to snap your head backwards.
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I'm afraid I don't share your confidence. I am an independent break fall instructor with over 25 years martial arts experience, and what breaks peoples necks in falls is that they land on their heads. It does not matter how much neck protection you wear, if you drop several feet into your head, you WILL suffer an injury.

Why do you think the kind of tackle demonstrated by the Welsh rugby teams captain this weekend is banned. Because that is a fighting technique designed to break your opponents neck.

Comparing the protection worn by racing drivers to that worn by horse riders is comparing fish with cheese. Racing drivers can suffer massive deceleration forces during a crash, but due to roll cages and other structural protection, they are very unlikely to hit the ground head first.
 
I use one occasionally when jumping at home. I had a fall where the back of my neck struck a pole on the way down so it was that or the GPA hat as I realised my neck had no protection when my head was whipped forwards. I can't tolerate a BP and feel far more likely to fall off in one in the first place, and still nothing for my neck - the inflatable does not affect my balance or movement. I just take the view it is better than nothing as nothing is the alternative for me.

I did not find any evidence for an increased risk of rib fracture in my research if the jacket is fitted properly and you have at least a fist spacing all the way down. I have also deliberately set it off test the fit and it worked fine (worth a canister to try). It inflates before you hit the ground so not a case moving a cracked rib in my understanding.
 
Saratoga said:
And if you land on the top of your head and compress your neck?? What restraint is going to stop you breaking your neck then? Or if you have a rotational fall and break your neck on landing before the air jacket has even gone off??

And the HANS device that is worn is motor racing is entirely different.
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Oh for goodness sake be sensible! No-one is saying all risk can be removed, but it is much much much better than NOTHING!
 
NeilM said:
I'm afraid I don't share your confidence. I am an independent break fall instructor with over 25 years martial arts experience, and what breaks peoples necks in falls is that they land on their heads. It does not matter how much neck protection you wear, if you drop several feet into your head, you WILL suffer an injury.
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But it WILL prevent a hangman's fracture and that is much more common when riding than landing directly onto the top of your head.

If you want the kind of certainty you are looking for then the only answer is never to get onto a horse in the first place. It's better than NOTHING
 
Cptrayes my apologies, I did misread you.
My experience (Msc Trauma Radiology with advanced trauma life support) is that axial loading fractures (compression) are less common than hyperflexion/extension. What Cptrayes is saying is a valid point, support behind the neck could prevent hyperextension.
 
smiggy said:
Well I bought one specifically to wear instead of a BP, not for anything strenuous, just hacking really
Had crashing fall hacking few months ago and cracked a few ribs, wasnt wearing a BP as my body shape means finding a comfortable one is a no go (and I have tried had well fitted racesafe) and I just cant/wont wear it every time.
My airjacket is hi viz and I am more than happy to wear it for long gallopy hacks
On balance am more likely to benefit from it than break a rib I feel?
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smiggy, did you crack your ribs before buying your airjacket?

the reason you're supposed to wear a bp under it is because the metal plate which sits behind the canister might cause injury in a fall IF the airjacket fails to go off, i believe.

as for the 'preventing neck breaks' topic, possibly worth asking Pepo Puch about that...
 
Cptrayes, as Neil has pointed out you cannot compare motorsport protection with equine, if you think an air jacket will stop you breaking your neck in a fall you are mistaken. If you want to go into details we can..

We have discussed the air jacket/BP a great deal here, The air jacket is not necessarily a bad thing but it does need to be worn with a BP (the P2 site even says this).
 
"But it WILL prevent a hangman's fracture and that is much more common when riding than landing directly onto the top of your head."

Sorry to double post but this has got me worried... it will NOT stop a hangman fracture.

In a racing car the drivers body is strapped to the seat with a 5 or 6 point harness so it cant move, if you are waring neck protection the collar is attached to the seat. In the event of an impact the collar/head restraint system lock solid to stop the head moving which was a common cause of hangman fractures in motor sport. Have a look at these videos if you are interested.

Obviously on a horse this is not possible. After my daughters fall ( documented on here ) I took a good look at protecting riders necks but because you are constantly moving you body as you ride it is not really possible in the same way as is done when we race cars or fly aircraft.

A good body protector like the Kan will help stop many injuries,an inflating device may help in some falls but without the BP you are just waring a football that will bounce you and transfer your fall energy through the device to you body... kick a Kan ( or other BP ) and see how it absorbs the energy, now do the same to an inflated airjacket ( or football) which goes further?
 
the Financier said:
Cptrayes, as Neil has pointed out you cannot compare motorsport protection with equine, if you think an air jacket will stop you breaking your neck in a fall you are mistaken. If you want to go into details we can..

We have discussed the air jacket/BP a great deal here, The air jacket is not necessarily a bad thing but it does need to be worn with a BP (the P2 site even says this).
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Well we have the word of a trauma speciallist that I am not mistaken that some fractures will be prevented by an air jacket, and that those are more likely fracture types when riding. That will do for me.

Like many people you seem to be answering me as if I have said that it will stop EVERY neck fracture and that is clearly a very stupid assumption and one I have not made.

I see no problem with comparing a collar designed to stop a racing driver from breaking his neck by having his head snapped back with a collar designed to stop a rider from breaking their neck by having their head snapped back and with the action of a head restraint in a car which stops whiplash injuries caused by having your head snapped back. If you see no comparison, so be it. That is your opinion but my own opinion is that there are valid comparisons to be made.

"It does need to be worn with a BP" .

No it doesn't. If you require full protection as far as it is possible, then an air jacket needs to be worn with a body protector. That does NOT mean that it offers no protection worth having if you do not have a body protector on. I have no intention of hunting in a standard body protector, I am satisfied that the air jacket is providing the level of protection that I want it to.

Once again I am left wondering why parts of this forum are so incredibly hostile to air jackets.
 
the Financier said:
"But it WILL prevent a hangman's fracture and that is much more common when riding than landing directly onto the top of your head."

Sorry to double post but this has got me worried... it will NOT stop a hangman fracture.
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Our trauma expert says it will.

the Financier said:
In a racing car the drivers body is strapped to the seat with a 5 or 6 point harness so it cant move, if you are waring neck protection the collar is attached to the seat. In the event of an impact the collar/head restraint system lock solid to stop the head moving which was a common cause of hangman fractures in motor sport. Have a look at these videos if you are interested.

Obviously on a horse this is not possible.

After my daughters fall ( documented on here ) I took a good look at protecting riders necks but because you are constantly moving you body as you ride it is not really possible in the same way as is done when we race cars or fly aircraft.
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No, that's why you have to have a device which inflates around the neck, because riding in a neck brace is impractical. A standard body protector fails to protect against neck fracture at all. Only an airbag will do the job.

the Financier said:
A good body protector like the Kan will help stop many injuries,an inflating device may help in some falls but without the BP you are just waring a football that will bounce you and transfer your fall energy through the device to you body... kick a Kan ( or other BP ) and see how it absorbs the energy, now do the same to an inflated airjacket ( or football) which goes further?
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You do not understand how air works. The bag is inflated to less than 100% of its theoretical maximum capacity. It absorbs some of the energy into the airbag and dissipates the rest of the energy over a greater area so that it fails to cause damage. It does not transfer it straight through to the body. The comparison is not with kicking a football blown up to high pressure contained in a hard casing. Try kicking a balloon instead, much more like the effect.
 
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