Insurance Claim when a horse is PTS

[Stella]

It occurs to me that I, and all of us really, need to know what we can about this before that bleak day comes. I read somewhere that if a horse is PTS and the owner will want to make an insurance claim, the company must agree to release the horse before its body is removed. This is because they may decide that a post mortum examination is required.

I was running this past our YM today and she said that in circumstances where the owner decides its time, e.g. when enough is enough in a horse's suffering or poor quality of life and the Vet hasn't said that it must be PTS at that point due to an acute condition, its necassary to contact the insurance company to request their agreement. They will then want to contact the Vet to liaise before reverting to the owner with a decision.

I know that when this time comes with my mare, I am likely to be distraught and the insurance company's opinion with not be near the top of my list of priorities. However, when a horse is insured for many thousends of pounds, this will need to be considered in order to have the funds to buy another horse.

Could people please share their experiences of these sorts of situations? Thanks.

 

[dianchi]

Fraid so. One of my friend had a games pony that had melalomas. (it turned out in the end that it had one pressing on her brain). The ins co wanted to send out an asseser to ensure they werent just doing it to make the money off the ins company.
After saying they would be there in a week!!! The owber took the humane decision to have her PTS and suffer the ins co after-they demaded a post mortem to check-furhter cost to owner!
Its so sad that they think that people will try and make money from this.

 

[Stella]

It is, but I suppose some people will, and if they didn't try to protect against freud, we'd all pay more

Can you remember which insurance company it was and would they have reimbursed her the cost of the post mortum if it confirmed her account?

 

[dianchi]

Amazelying it was E&L!!!!!
The PM was included in the end of the claim.
I think if its an on going situation and its your decision that its the best thing then you need to have discussed it with them. If its acute (say a broken leg) and the vet says PTS is the most humane then i dont think you do.

 

[TequilaMist]

Yep friend got her horse PTS sleep last yr as mare was going to be permenantly lame after bout yr of treatment.Poor thing was in pain when asked to walk out of box.She did the right thing by the horse and PTS.Insurance company wouldn't pay out as she had chosen to PTS.She could have had nerves cut but didn't think that was fair on horse and wouldn't have 'cured' problem horse would have just not felt it
To be fair to insurance company don't know she had informed them of this decision and thats why they dug their heels in.

 

[Stella]

E&L don't count

 

[dianchi]

BUT they PAID!!!!!!!

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
BUT they PAID!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ] That is impressive

I'd never insure with them though!

 

[mbpsue]

my friends pony had bad string holt and the insurence componey wanted to pot it down instead of having the op we had to fight for it and get secound appinune since then its jumping its way

to the top of pony showjumping

 

[Baileyhoss]

a friend of mine had the insurance question the vet's opinion and demand a pm and then they got arsy becasue she hadn't got round to changing the passport into her name (relatively new horse). seemed like they just wanted to avoid paying out.

this is a very well known and recommended insurer. The thing is, the poor horse's foot came off in the field. it was a fairly obvious why the decision had to be made. i think at one point during the interrogation like telephone calls, she offered to post them the foot!.

 

[Stella]

Could you say which insurance company it was. I think we are permitted to and its always useful to who did what!

 

[Baileyhoss]

who me? scottish equestrian

 

[dozzie]

I had a youngster insured with Weatherbys. I had made the decision to pts and Weatherbys spoke to the vet the next day. It delayed the decision for about 2 days but no PM was required as i had informed the company before PTS and they had spoken with the vet. Couldnt fault the insurance company. But it was hard to wait once i had made the decision.

 

[saswain]

I had my horse PTS after surgery on her leg - she severed it down to the pedal bone in a field accident. She was crippled lame in walk even on bute, had hoof defomitiies and contracted heels as a result of inadequate blood supply and then got a kick on another leg which became badly infected. She had no quality of life and no hope of it improving. I informed the insurance company she was being PTS but they wouldnt pay up because it was not classifed as 'humane destrcution'! They meant as defined by an insurance company rather than how we use the term but it was really upsetting at the time.

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
I had my horse PTS after surgery on her leg - she severed it down to the pedal bone in a field accident. She was crippled lame in walk even on bute, had hoof defomitiies and contracted heels as a result of inadequate blood supply and then got a kick on another leg which became badly infected. She had no quality of life and no hope of it improving. I informed the insurance company she was being PTS but they wouldnt pay up because it was not classifed as 'humane destrcution'! They meant as defined by an insurance company rather than how we use the term but it was really upsetting at the time.

[/ QUOTE ] Thats not good

Did they even discuss it with your vet? Which company was it?

 

[Flame_]

The safest bet is to have Loss of Use cover. Many vets can't declare PTS for humane reasons unless the horse is in serious agony, but they will support LOU. You can claim a large percentage of the horse's value and then its up to you if you retire horse or PTS.

 

[minmax]

I had my mare pts as her quality of life was at question, the vet agreed with me that it was the best thing to do but there may have been a remote chance of prolonging her life with treatment. Suspensory ligament damage, 18 yrs old. It may or may not have worked. She was turning into a hatrack in pain on bute and wouldn't eat so I told the ins comp and had her pts. Needless to say they did'nt pay out.

 

[Stella]

How awful for you

Could you say which company it was? They should morally base these decisions on welfare shouldn't they?

 

[Maesfen]

It probably sounds awful but over many years I have had several put down for various reasons and the companies have all paid up without me being put through a paper hoop but whether that is because I don't insure mine for large sums (nothing been over £1500, most only £1000) and I don't have vet fee cover either, I don't know if that has any bearing on it.
I also think to a certain degree it depends how 'decent' your vet is, whether they are realistic enough about the future life of the horse and what it can or can't be, also whether they are willing to fight your corner for you or not.
1. Mabel, a 3yr TB filly was sold, I was just having a coffee watching them all playing in the field before I caught her in to be cleaned up prior to collection when she got slammed into by a cob and knocked sideways and then just stood there as the others still went playing about; she couldn't move. Rang vet, rang new owner and went out to catch her, she was very lame, unwilling to walk. Sod's law a new vet came out, wanted to do everything by the book and wanted her in stable which took 20 min's; couldn't find exactly where wrong, I wanted 2nd opinion; next vet came out with mobile x-ray but was not hopeful, it was around the elbow, you could hear it grating. While he was away, I rang insurance who said keep them posted. When he came back with results, she had fractured her elbow badly; it could possibly be fixed if she went to Leahurst but she'd always only be a field ornament; no life for a young filly so we put her down there and then on humane grounds. He said refer insurance company to him if they had a problem with it; they didn't and paid out immediately. Only good thing to come out of that though was I had sold another horse some months before and had split the premium due back from him to increase Mabel and another one's values. Company had mixed it up and put all of it onto Mabel's value; I actually got more from them than she had been sold for!

2. Spry, just weaned, slipped in field, was very lame. Told company after vet had been (bute and box rest for a week then reassess) No better, tried another week but deep down I knew she'd have to go especially when we tried her out and she didn't move from the gateway; that was so not her. Vet agreed (he knew her, knew what a feisty mare she usually was (old cowbag he usually called her!) kennels came that after noon to put her down (I howled after I made that phone call, worst moment, ever, she was my first and most precious brood mare for all her feistyness) Told company afterwards and no problems at all even though that was only done on humane grounds. Kennels found out she had freakily fractured the inside of her stifle and all the tissue around it was pulped, she would never have recovered (which made me feel slightly better that we did the right thing)
3.Maisy somersaulted in the field and was staggering everywhere when she could get up, very dangerous to be near, she just didn't have any co ordination at all; when she was on the ground she was flat out, completely out of it, couldn't hear you, anything. We thought it was back at first. I had told vet it was very bad and to bring the gun just in case; he knows me well enough that I don't exaggerate and did. He took one look at her and went back to the car for it there and then, waited until she went down again and was still and shot her. There wasn't a mark on her but her membranes had already gone very yellow. By the time the kennels looked at her later that day, her whole body had turned yellow and they found that she had crushed a vertebrae just behind her ears which had severed the spinal cord hence the yellow colour. That time, the company weren't told until well after she was put down, there just wasn't time; it was only 30 minutes from her fall to being put down. Again, vet had said refer them to him if a problem but there wasn't at all.
Perhaps I've been lucky with my dealings, I don't know but my company is run by horse people which I think helps a lot; they seem to understand far better the choices you have to make and try to make things as easy as possible for you. I do also, always explain that the horse is my priority, I will do what I and the vet consider best for it regardless of the insurance, I'm not asking for vet fees to be paid if treatment is the answer but if it isn't and PTS is the only option then, in my mind, if they don't like it they can lump it! because of the low values, I won't have lost a fortune in premiums if they don't pay out but they have always been fair for me and as a result, I always recommend them. It's KBIS BTW!

 

[saswain]

I think the issue with my horse was that hypothetically she may have become pasture sound and therefore it was my choice the end her suffering when I did. My vet obviously fully supported my decision and he said that I was being very brave ending it now rather than months down the line. We both felt getting her to point of being comfortable was very, very unlikely. My horse was 8 yrs old and would have hated being retired so even if she was pasture sound (and she wouldnt have been) I still would have had her PTS. My current horse would quite like being retired (!) and so I would make a different decision in her case.

If you have a horse that is currently 'OK' but its condition will deteriorate to a point when you will have 'no choice' but to PTS then the insurance company will pay up. Although I understand the insurance companies point of view, I felt they were less than tactful when I phoned them to find out what was going on with my claim. It was the first time I had a horse that was PTS and I was completely devasted. To have a person on a phone tell you it was NOT 'humane destruction' without immediately clarfying what they meant nearly 'tipped me over the edge'.

At the end of the day it is all about quality of life and not what an insurance company says.