Interesting debate at the yard today

[EquestrianE01]

Well at least I found it interesting, so thought I'd share it here to see what you guys thought.

One of my horses today discovered a delightful new trick of pulling back and deliberately breaking away from being tied up. He has never ever done this before and always been foot perfect on the ground. Long story short he ended up going for a lovely gallop down the very icy driveway!
Anyway, the debate was over the following; I could see absolutely no rhyme or reason as to why said horse had decided to pick up this new habit today. He's 15, never done it before, is in regular work, and his routine was the same as it normally is.
Majority of the yard have said they are (or would be if he were theirs) more worried about WHAT he did (the pulling back and running off), rather than WHY he did it.
As I can see no obvious reason as to the why, that is actually what concerns me more. Obviously I am worried about what he did too, and really don't want it to become a habit, but that isn't my main concern.
I do think that as a community we tend to focus more on the what (he bucked, she bites, he tried to kick me) rather than finding out why these things are happening (he bucked because he has kissing spines and it hurts, she bites because she's got ulcers and I'm doing her girth, he kicked me because I hadn't read the warning signs and pushed the boundaries too far and/or I caught him unawares and he kicked out of shock).
It was just a yard musing really and was a fairly friendly debate all round so I thought I'd pass it onto HHO and see what everyone else thinks?

P.S. I am obviously not going to lie awake tonight worrying about WHY my horse chose to pull back, but if it does become a habit I will be looking into the why, rather than just shutting him down and telling him off for it.
And I will also add to this that I am by no means a fluffy bunny as was the general consensus on the yard today (no hard feelings, I'm sure I maybe came across that way this morning), my horses will get a smack if I genuinely think they are just be rude and/or naughty, but I also think there are times when you need to take a step back and assess the situation from a different perspective.

 

[HashRouge]

I can't work out from your post if he just did this once, or if you mean he did it several times today? In both cases, as he's never done it before, I'd assume there was something that spooked him and not worry too much about it. If he did it more than once, it's likely that he was on edge from whatever spooked him the first time round, and therefore was more likely to do it again. Also, what I have observed from having a horse who regularly used to pull back, is that the initial spook is rarely the problem. Often what happens is the horse will spook at something, pull back on the lead rope, then full blown panic when they feel the pressure on their poll or realise that they can't escape. I've seen this with other horses too, and they generally won't stop struggling until they've broken whatever they're tied to, or their head collar or lead rope.

I would look out for any signs of sensitivity over the poll with your horse over the next few days, especially if whatever he was tied to didn't break straight away.

 

[EquestrianE01]

I can't work out from your post if he just did this once, or if you mean he did it several times today? In both cases, as he's never done it before, I'd assume there was something that spooked him and not worry too much about it. If he did it more than once, it's likely that he was on edge from whatever spooked him the first time round, and therefore was more likely to do it again. Also, what I have observed from having a horse who regularly used to pull back, is that the initial spook is rarely the problem. Often what happens is the horse will spook at something, pull back on the lead rope, then full blown panic when they feel the pressure on their poll or realise that they can't escape. I've seen this with other horses too, and they generally won't stop struggling until they've broken whatever they're tied to, or their head collar or lead rope.

I would look out for any signs of sensitivity over the poll with your horse over the next few days, especially if whatever he was tied to didn't break straight away.

He did it several times, once he realised he could do it, it became a thing. It's hard to explain, but he definitely wasn't spooked if that makes sense. It was a very deliberate, head up, bodyweight back, I don't want to be tied up thing. It all seemed relatively calm and, I'm going to use the word calculated although I know horses don't think like that, but I can't think of a better word right now.

 

[HashRouge]

He did it several times, once he realised he could do it, it became a thing. It's hard to explain, but he definitely wasn't spooked if that makes sense. It was a very deliberate, head up, bodyweight back, I don't want to be tied up thing. It all seemed relatively calm and, I'm going to use the word calculated although I know horses don't think like that, but I can't think of a better word right now.

Was he bored? Hungry? Cold? Waiting around for ages? It's a really bad habit for them to get into, a) because it can be very dangerous if they get loose and have an accident and b) because it can damage their poll.

 

[EllenJay]

I would guess that something made him pull back, he scared himself once he broke the tie up and buggered off. Probably will never happen again - just a horse being a horse. No rhyme or reason

 

[honetpot]

He did it several times, once he realised he could do it, it became a thing. It's hard to explain, but he definitely wasn't spooked if that makes sense. It was a very deliberate, head up, bodyweight back, I don't want to be tied up thing. It all seemed relatively calm and, I'm going to use the word calculated although I know horses don't think like that, but I can't think of a better word right now.

I bought a ShireX from an auction. Before he went through the ring he was tied to some heras fencing, he pulled back and took three panels with him, as the rope didn't break. When I got him back to the yard you could not tie him to anything, he would just step back and break it, if you stood by him with the rope untied on the floor, he would just stand. As he was a good 17.2, and the stables were converted pig sheds, he automatically ducked his head to walk in. Jn all other ways he was perfect to handle and ride, even by a teenager.
I think the smart ones just learn stuff and repeat it, just for them an advantage, like the pony who patrols the fence line looking for gaps, or dodges behind you to have a wander around the yard, just in case there is something to snack on. The ones that pull rigs and coats off doors, and stamp on them, well the just may be a snack hidden. Anything they see as a positive they repeat, it doesn't mean there is something wrong.

 

[SEL]

My Appy - rising 13 - came to me 8 years ago and pulling back with intent was just one of her delightful habits. Baling twine, headcollars and lead rope clips all took their turn to break.

She came with the habit and I'm not going to say how I stopped it but she still knows she can break away if she chooses. We had a stressful few weeks in Nov (reality of losing her companion hitting home I think) where I'd tie her up and she'd jerk her head back and snap the twine and head off round the yard. Tie her up again and she'd break away again.

So it might be that your horse knew how to break away from a long time ago and something triggered him today. I'd only really worry if it keeps happening.

 

[Oldernewbie]

My horse would invariably pull back at some point every -time she was tied up, the more that was going on around her the quicker she would do it. Broke numerous head collars and scared me half to death.
Eventually due to a variety of factors we moved yard and she was only tied to a ‘easy release’ type toggle, so when she pulled back there wasn’t that feeling of restriction tightening against her, after pulling back the first time she never did it again and now stands calmly when ‘tied’. Very interestingly she had a CT headscan for unrelated matters and an abnormality was found which vet said was suggesive of a traumatic head injury sometime in the past- so my poor girl probably had a very bad experience in the past to make her fearful of the pressure on her face and head when she moved back when tied.

 

[millikins]

Our first pony wouldn't stay tied up and annoyingly we think we taught her with those quick release bungies. She didn't go anywhere and would stand happily with a rope passed through a tie, just not fastened.
It's hopefully just a one off OP, we had a friend's pony with us for a while, little Welshie about 15, no bother until one day for no reason I could see just started pulling back until the twine snapped. He didn't seemed upset either before or after and never did it again afaik.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Faran will pull back to break away, even if he has a haynet, he just wants a wander, he never runs away just likes to go see around. Can’t have him doing it however as the yard opens onto the road with no gate, funny thing is he only does it if not tied to the ring, if I tie him to twine, a breakaway of any sort including a tail bandage he will pull and pull and pull until he gets away, once he realises he’s onto the ring he stops.

Now before anyone has a meltdown he’s more than capable of breaking the clips on the leadrope and headcollar if he’s truly panicking (he’s done it several times I buy leadropes in bulk) so he won’t hang himself before someone has an anneurysm and starts going off their rocker ?

 

[Squeak]

I'd agree with you that I'd be more worried about the why for a one off incident/ day. However I do agree with others that it can be a learned behaviour so if it continues that could be a possibility but I'd want to make sure that you've got rid of triggers such as being hungry, tired, cold, spooked etc. before just accepting it's now a learned behaviour.

 

[Steerpike]

I have one that learnt he could do that, I then started to use an Idolo tie on the slackest loop he still pulled back so I put it on the harder loop and he stopped, I think the reason was just he wanted in his stable rather than have his feet picked out and it soon became a habit, he hasn't tried it for several months and I've had the physio check his poll luckily no damage done.

 

[ycbm]

In answer to your base question, I'm always more interested in why a horse does something odd than in stopping them from doing it. Though obviously if the odd behaviour is dangerous you have to stop it happening.

Any unusual behaviour should raise the question of why it's happening.
.

 

[EquestrianE01]

In answer to your base question, I'm always more interested in why a horse does something odd than in stopping them from doing it. Though obviously if the odd behaviour is dangerous you have to stop it happening.

Any unusual behaviour should raise the question of why it's happening.
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100% agree with that whole post ycbm.
He tried to do it again this morning, but couldn't get away because of the way I tied him (which I won't be sharing ?). Luckily he's in an indoor barn, so I can shut the door if needed, which I did this morning. I'm hoping that if he does get away, but he can't go anywhere, it might stop him wanting to do it.
I am also going to look at other things; he has recently changed feed due to the Pure fiasco and, although I thought from reading the ingredients that it was all the same stuff he would be getting, I'm going to have a closer look at what % all the ingredients are compared to what he was on. Maybe he's getting too much or too little of something from it ?‍.
He also the past couple of weeks has been asking to go back into his old stable that he was in when I first got him, no idea why he's not been in there for months, but if the feed isn't the cause I will move him back into the old stable I think and see if it's that.
I've also booked the physio to come and look at him, he was only checked a couple of weeks ago, but I'm worried he's hurt his neck pulling back

 

[scats]

The why is more important because the what only needs considering if the why keeps happening.

 

[lizziebell]

I do think that as a community we tend to focus more on the what (he bucked, she bites, he tried to kick me) rather than finding out why these things are happening (he bucked because he has kissing spines and it hurts, she bites because she's got ulcers and I'm doing her girth, he kicked me because I hadn't read the warning signs and pushed the boundaries too far and/or I caught him unawares and he kicked out of shock).

I would always look at the “Why” first, but being fairly old school, I would actually disagree that most peoples focus is on the “what”. There is far far more awareness these days to the “why”. You just have to look on social media, and any photo/video of a horse doing something out of the supposed norm, gets comments of “the horse is in pain”, “the horse is trying to tell you something”. I think to some extent we’ve become too fluffy bunny, and sometimes have to appreciate that horses do have personalities and can do things that mean nothing more than a bit of cheekiness and yes, I do believe a horse can show certain behaviours for no other reason than that it is a part of its character.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm glad you are getting the physio to have a look at the horse.

I have owned two horses who 'enjoy' pulling back so the lead rope is stretched and tight and they, for some reason, get satisfaction from the pull on their neck, like a human in traction.

The first horse who did it started at the age of 24, repeatedly broke their headcollar three or four times in the space of 2 or 3 weeks, yet had never pulled back and broken an head collar previously in 16.9 years! She went on to live another two or three months before being pts with something totally unrelated. To be fair the headcollar lived out all day hung on the paddock fence in wind, rain, snow, etc so the stitching was probably weaker which is why it kept breaking but for her to never have done it before was weird.

You said in your OP: "It was a very deliberate, head up, bodyweight back, I don't want to be tied up thing. It all seemed relatively calm and, I'm going to use the word calculated although I know horses don't think like that, but I can't think of a better word right now".

My current horse does exactly this but only when I rug him. He pulls back (he's tied to two bungees) and his neck is dead straight, I have to walk him forwards, he literally puts his bodyweight back and his neck is stretched out. I will try to get a photo later!

In both cases they had arthritis in their neck, one had a malformation of the C6-C7 vetebrae and was seen by Dickie Hepburn and the current one also has arthritis which has shown on x-ray and gets an unusual sweat patch on his neck over the same area the xray shows an issue - only when he travels in a lorry, not in day to day life.

I wonder whether this might be the case with yours? Either a touch of arthritis or sore neck muscles from something unrelated.

 

[EquestrianE01]

I'm glad you are getting the physio to have a look at the horse.

I have owned two horses who 'enjoy' pulling back so the lead rope is stretched and tight and they, for some reason, get satisfaction from the pull on their neck, like a human in traction.

The first horse who did it started at the age of 24, repeatedly broke their headcollar three or four times in the space of 2 or 3 weeks, yet had never pulled back and broken an head collar previously in 16.9 years! She went on to live another two or three months before being pts with something totally unrelated. To be fair the headcollar lived out all day hung on the paddock fence in wind, rain, snow, etc so the stitching was probably weaker which is why it kept breaking but for her to never have done it before was weird. My current horse does it but only when I rug him. He pulls back (he's tied to two bungees) and his neck is dead straight, I have to walk him forwards.

In both cases they had arthritis in their neck, one had a malformation of the C6-C7 vetebrae and was seen by Dickie Hepburn and the current one also has arthritis which has shown on x-ray.

I wonder whether this might be the case with yours?

Oh gosh I hope not! Like I say he had the physio out only a couple of weeks ago and she said he felt great, including his neck. He schools fantasticly and does his carrot streches well, so I have no reason to be concerned in that area, but never say never. It will be something I keep at the back of mind for sure, and I know my physio will give him a good look over from top to bottom

 

[Birker2020]

Oh gosh I hope not! Like I say he had the physio out only a couple of weeks ago and she said he felt great, including his neck. He schools fantasticly and does his carrot streches well, so I have no reason to be concerned in that area, but never say never. It will be something I keep at the back of mind for sure, and I know my physio will give him a good look over from top to bottom

Good. Sorry, I was trying to alarm you, just thought it was worth mentioning.
I'm sure he will be fine x

 

[ponynutz]

He did it several times, once he realised he could do it, it became a thing. It's hard to explain, but he definitely wasn't spooked if that makes sense. It was a very deliberate, head up, bodyweight back, I don't want to be tied up thing. It all seemed relatively calm and, I'm going to use the word calculated although I know horses don't think like that, but I can't think of a better word right now.

Mine discovered this habit. I never really discovered why either, sometimes she’d head for grass and others shed stand there looking at me like “are you proud mum”. I eventually concluded she just was bored (can horses get bored??). Stopped when I started always giving her a net when I wasnt grooming her or paying her attention.

 

[First Frost]

This might sound weird, but check his nose for pain.
Many years ago my very well mannered horse did this 3 times in one day. We could find absolutely no reason. His nose looked fine at the time. Then the next day the rim of his nostril was a tiny bit swollen and he was very sensitive. Next day an abscess exploded on the rim of his nostril! Vet thought a thorn must have gone straight in and not left an entry mark. When tied up and he touched the wall with his nose the pain must have been awful - poor boy!

He never did it again after.
In answer to your question I would be more interested in the why than the what, especially with a horse I knew well and it was very out of character.

 

[Birker2020]

In answer to your question I would be more interested in the why than the what, especially with a horse I knew well and it was very out of character.

Yes definitely. There is always a reason, but sometimes you have to search hard for the answer.

 

[EquestrianE01]

This might sound weird, but check his nose for pain.
Many years ago my very well mannered horse did this 3 times in one day. We could find absolutely no reason. His nose looked fine at the time. Then the next day the rim of his nostril was a tiny bit swollen and he was very sensitive. Next day an abscess exploded on the rim of his nostril! Vet thought a thorn must have gone straight in and not left an entry mark. When tied up and he touched the wall with his nose the pain must have been awful - poor boy!

He never did it again after.
In answer to your question I would be more interested in the why than the what, especially with a horse I knew well and it was very out of character.

Ooh, that's such a good thought, I will nip out and do that now actually because I pulled a thorn out of my mares nostril this morning and they're always together in the field so if she's found thorns, he will have too. And he likes to stand with his nose resting on the wall so it would make sense

 

[Backtoblack]

He did it several times, once he realised he could do it, it became a thing. It's hard to explain, but he definitely wasn't spooked if that makes sense. It was a very deliberate, head up, bodyweight back, I don't want to be tied up thing. It all seemed relatively calm and, I'm going to use the word calculated although I know horses don't think like that, but I can't think of a better word right now.

my horse does this hes 13 started last year, he was tried in the stable with a net, he just leaned back and applied weight until the string broke. like you I have no idea why except that he didnt want to be tied up anymore. interestingly he only does this when tied to that particular ring, once he found he could get loose he repeated the pulling every time. he doesnt do it outside or tied to the other ring in the stable, however i did smack him on the bottom when i saw him leaning elsewhere so maybe thats why he doesnt pull back in other places.

 

[Sossigpoker]

If it wasn't as a reaction to being spooked, I'd be looking for a pain related reason. Horses often reset being tied if they're uncomfortable in the neck - hind limb pain often shows as not tolerating cross ties

 

[2 Dragons]

Mine witnessed another horse doing this, then tried it himself a few times over the next week. He would wander off to find something to eat, I would catch him tie him back up - soon realised escaping wasn't that exciting and gave up.

 

[dorsetladette]

B learnt to do this and did it pretty regularly when we first bought him. First few times he appeared spooked, but then looked more like he was sticking 2 fingers up at me. (welsh cob attitude) I bought a really long parelli type rope and only loped it through the ring. He was always 'tied' in a secure yard area which he couldn't get out of. He learnt there was no pressure when he pulled back and I returned him to the place I wanted him everytime he moved, then eventually he would just stand while he was groomed etc.
He had hock arthitis in later years but I don't believe this was an issue 10 years previous.

 

[Landcruiser]

OP, I would invest in a few Idolo safety ties and a long lead rope of suitable thickness. Never mind the why or what, it's a dangerous habit and needs nipping in the bud if possible. IMO those ties that break easily are a menace, and tying to baling twine is a pain, and if it breaks it's just taught them pulling back works.

 

[ponynutz]

OP, I would invest in a few Idolo safety ties and a long lead rope of suitable thickness. Never mind the why or what, it's a dangerous habit and needs nipping in the bud if possible. IMO those ties that break easily are a menace, and tying to baling twine is a pain, and if it breaks it's just taught them pulling back works.

I’d be more inclined to tie in stable/somewhere secure than making it unbreakable.

It only takes him spooking or trying this again to really hurt himself. Making his surroundings more secure while you find an alternative solution so he’s less likely to escape is probably safer altho I do agree it’s a dangerous habit.

It might be if he realises he cant go running down the road when he escapes he stops doing it anyway.

 

[EquestrianE01]

This might sound weird, but check his nose for pain.
Many years ago my very well mannered horse did this 3 times in one day. We could find absolutely no reason. His nose looked fine at the time. Then the next day the rim of his nostril was a tiny bit swollen and he was very sensitive. Next day an abscess exploded on the rim of his nostril! Vet thought a thorn must have gone straight in and not left an entry mark. When tied up and he touched the wall with his nose the pain must have been awful - poor boy!

He never did it again after.
In answer to your question I would be more interested in the why than the what, especially with a horse I knew well and it was very out of character.

Sorry for the late update everyone, it's been a busy couple of days!

I cannot believe I am writing this but @First Frost you were 100% on the money! Thursday evening I had a good root around up the poor boys nose and dug out a massive thorn that brought a load of gunk out with it ?. Gave it a good squeeze and clean, and he's absolutely back to normal. He stood tied for an hour (with me close by; it'll be a while before I trust him on his own again!) whilst I faffed around and chatted, and he did not move once.
Thank you so much! I genuinely would not have thought to look there, just shows how sensitive they can be.
Would post pics but I unfortunately am not that computer savvy ?