Introducing Lindeza (lin-day-za)

ycbm said:
But she is a hysterical beastie! The Latin temperament, maybe. She reminds me of Bruno Tonioli and Frankie Dettori ?
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This is such a good way of describing them ?
It sounds like you're having a lot of fun with her, and although she seems to be finding her feet and testing the waters a bit now, none of it sounds remotely scary or unmanageable
 
It may sound silly and anthropomorphic but my Lipi x has sometimes seemed to have a meltdown at next to nothing after facing all kinds of potential stressors without batting an eyelid. It feels as if he has tried so very hard to be good until his nerves have finally frayed. At first I used to think he was unpredictable as the meltdowns appeared without any warning after a seemingly relaxed period for no good reason. I know better now, the apparent relaxation can be totally deceptive.
 
planete said:
It may sound silly and anthropomorphic but my Lipi x has sometimes seemed to have a meltdown at next to nothing after facing all kinds of potential stressors without batting an eyelid. It feels as if he has tried so very hard to be good until his nerves have finally frayed. At first I used to think he was unpredictable as the meltdowns appeared without any warning after a seemingly relaxed period for no good reason. I know better now, the apparent relaxation can be totally deceptive.
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I recall seeing Richard Maxwell at a demo years ago, he described this behaviour (if I remember correctly) as the horse having a "stress tank", small things that we might not notice or recognise (eg in a horse we are not familiar with) get added to the "tank" until finally something causes it to overflow and that might be something we don't regard as large or significant.
 
Yes, definitely a Latin temperament :D describes them well. Something you can stylishly ride down to an angry bull on, and wheel away from a pesky fly at the drop of an olive.....

A Spanish friend told me they were "emocionado" (excitable), but you can, you must, always trust your horse before he can trust you.
 
Cortez said:
Yes, definitely a Latin temperament :D describes them well. Something you can stylishly ride down to an angry bull on, and wheel away from a pesky fly at the drop of an olive.....

A Spanish friend told me they were "emocionado" (excitable), but you can, you must, always trust your horse before he can trust you.
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It would definitely be a terrible mistake to start acting as if I thought she might do it at any time. I'm pretty certain it would be a great way to teach her to do it at any time ?

My raised voice was entirely strategic, not anger. I didn't want to reward her hysterics at having been touched in a way she's been touched a hundred times before by 'reassuring' her with 'good girl' noises, because then she would just think she had been right to be upset. I wanted her to think 'oh, good, someone to give me a lead to follow'. It worked, she stopped the circling straight away.

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A no nonsense approach is definitely the way to go, and telling them to get over themselves. Spanish horses in Spain are most assuredly not mollycoddled*, to put it mildly....

*The average English rider would have conniptions!
 
Oh she reminds me so much of my gelding ? bless them and their drama queen ways! Sometimes I think it is for their own personal entertainment. I ride my guy with a zebra fly sheet for most hacks, he acts terrified of it whenever it isn't on him. If it's on him, it's fine. I walked up to him with it today, he started giving it the hairy eye ball and wanted to back away, and I told him "Stop!" and he put a lid on it. I put his saddle pad on the gate to his paddock yesterday for a few seconds while I did something, you'd think that aliens had landed the way he snorted and objected to this clearly offensive placement of said pad. He also dawdles on his way home, he gets there when he gets there. No sooner! Meanwhile his usual hacking parter is several strides head going at a brisk pace, head tossing, and giving her owner a workout as she rushes to get back to the stable.

So, my point is, you are not alone! ? Strange but loveable creatures!

It's nice that she hacks alone so well though! And that it's working with 2 horses on your property. Managing a pair can be tricky.
 
Cortez said:
Yes, definitely a Latin temperament :D describes them well. Something you can stylishly ride down to an angry bull on, and wheel away from a pesky fly at the drop of an olive.....

A Spanish friend told me they were "emocionado" (excitable), but you can, you must, always trust your horse before he can trust you.
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Ah, that quote is too good! ?
 
CanteringCarrot said:
Oh she reminds me so much of my gelding ? bless them and their drama queen ways! Sometimes I think it is for their own personal entertainment. I ride my guy with a zebra fly sheet for most hacks, he acts terrified of it whenever it isn't on him. If it's on him, it's fine. I walked up to him with it today, he started giving it the hairy eye ball and wanted to back away, and I told him "Stop!" and he put a lid on it. I put his saddle pad on the gate to his paddock yesterday for a few seconds while I did something, you'd think that aliens had landed the way he snorted and objected to this clearly offensive placement of said pad. He also dawdles on his way home, he gets there when he gets there. No sooner! Meanwhile his usual hacking parter is several strides head going at a brisk pace, head tossing, and giving her owner a workout as she rushes to get back to the stable.

So, my point is, you are not alone! ? Strange but loveable creatures!

It's nice that she hacks alone so well though! And that it's working with 2 horses on your property. Managing a pair can be tricky.
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Oh the saddle pad! Every flipping time!! She sees it and starts as if it's a lion. I say 'no!' and she stands still shaking until it's on and then couldn't care less about it. She's big into shaking ?‍♀️
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ycbm said:
Oh the saddle pad! Every flipping time!! She sees it and starts as if it's a lion. I say 'no!' and she stands still shaking until it's on and then couldn't care less about it. She's big into shaking ?‍♀️
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Bear shook at plenty of things in the first month or two. He would shake if I patted him on the arse gently! Might just be one of those introverted nervous types.
 
ycbm said:
Oh the saddle pad! Every flipping time!! She sees it and starts as if it's a lion. I say 'no!' and she stands still shaking until it's on and then couldn't care less about it. She's big into shaking ?‍♀️
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Ah yes, I've also seen mine do some shaking...over his girth that I dropped on the ground. ? But he's cool as a cucumber for many other things that other horses lose their mind over. Totally non chalant about a sonic boom or some things on the trail that his hacking mate will spook at. I took off his fly mask the other day and he looked at it, "Whoa, da hell is that?!" it's what was just on your face for the last 8 hours dummy.

I've done some training with him on this stuff. But it's so ingrained into his personality. He doesn't make me feel nervous or at danger, but I really have to have a sense of humor about it otherwise it'd drive me nuts. I've heard they can get less weird when they're older... As in 15+ ?....maybe
 
Just had her teeth done. I had her sedated because I didn't want any histrionics. She's 7 and never had them done. They weren't bad, but she had just been catching her cheeks a tiny bit, so it was just as well.

She's buzzy buzzy buzzy to ride now, just wants to be moving right from the off. I'm starting shoulder in as a means to keep everything calm, and it's just easy peasy for her. She'll be at GP by Christmas at this rate ?

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i found that, i would give him something to think about as soon as on board and used si, and that was after lunging!

however has a button in brain that just like a switch and goes from `i might just leap about`to relaxing into ``àh i see you want me to relax`, ok``

wonder if its a breed characteristic
 
Cortez said:
Yes, definitely a Latin temperament :D describes them well. Something you can stylishly ride down to an angry bull on, and wheel away from a pesky fly at the drop of an olive.....

A Spanish friend told me they were "emocionado" (excitable), but you can, you must, always trust your horse before he can trust you.
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emocionado to me means reactive in the horse sense, sometimes for inexplicable reasons, that i accept as full on to whats happening around them, well that`s how it feels to me, i could say flippin hysterical but its not quite the same somehow.
 
tristar said:
emocionado to me means reactive in the horse sense, sometimes for inexplicable reasons, that i accept as full on to whats happening around them, well that`s how it feels to me, i could say flippin hysterical but its not quite the same somehow.
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See, I've never had a hysterical Spanish horse: hot, yes, and super sensitive, but not silly or irrational ever. I've had plenty arrive that way mind you, but I would say it was the owners who were hysterical not the horses.......:p
 
Cortez said:
See, I've never had a hysterical Spanish horse: hot, yes, and super sensitive, but not silly or irrational ever. I've had plenty arrive that way mind you, but I would say it was the owners who were hysterical not the horses.......:p
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Oy careful ?

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We had our first outing yesterday and it went really well, but I came home very flat about it.

She loaded well to go and come home. She tried running backwards into the wall a couple of times, but got nowhere so she gave up and travelled pretty quietly.

I rode her for about 25 minutes in a group lesson with four others and she was perfectly behaved.

But the arena surface is terrible, it's difficult to walk across it is so deep in loose rubber, so I'm not sure about taking her there again. And the trainer told me that her back end is so weak that I should be very careful what I do with her. I don't understand this comment, I think she's got the strongest back and is more developed than any horse I have ever started. I'm wondering if they mistook her Spanish movement for weakness, but it did put a downer on the day :(
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ycbm said:
We had our first outing yesterday and it went really well, but I came home very flat about it.

She loaded well to go and come home. She tried running backwards into the wall a couple of times, but got nowhere so she gave up and travelled pretty quietly.

I rode her for about 25 minutes in a group lesson with four others and she was perfectly behaved.

But the arena surface is terrible, it's difficult to walk across it is so deep in loose rubber, so I'm not sure about taking her there again. And the trainer told me that her back end is so weak that I should be very careful what I do with her. I don't understand this comment, I think she's got the strongest back and is more developed than any horse I have ever started. I'm wondering if they mistook her Spanish movement for weakness, but it did put a downer on the day :(
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That is really irritating and I can see why you’d feel it took the shine of the day. For what it’s worth, traveling a relatively new, green horse to a group lesson with four other horses in the same space seems like a fairly brave thing to do and it sounds like she went brilliantly well.

People are so odd about non-traditional types. I had so many people tell me that Mimosa would be hellishly uncomfortable to ride - short back, straighter shoulder than one might like, araby movement. She is the most comfortable horse I’ve ever sat on, and you have to remind yourself to rise to the trot.

Their loss!
 
*disclaimer I am no expert
But, I think the iberian horses are so naturally collected they are inclined to look like they are being worked in a medium (or higher) outline without really trying. So I sort of understand if the instructor is thinking you are asking her to work that way as opposed to her offering it theyd want to encourage you to work more of a prelim outline. However, in my (limited) experience they find it harder to work that way than collected
 
I will say that Iberian horses can have the "shape" of a strong horse, but not necessarily the strength. It is quite likely that she is not so strong since she was out of work. So I could possibly see where the instructor was coming from.

I've had people say my horse looks strong, so good in his body and his work, but I can feel that he needs more strength or that he's only giving 80% it takes a keen eye, but these Iberians can fool you into thinking they're ready for more work and more capable than they really are. I'm not trying to say you don't have a keen eye or don't know your horse, just my experience. It really takes a lot (A LOT) of strength to work a horse properly in dressage. Was this a dressage instructor?


But also, I do think people aren't used to a horse that moves different. I'm not sure how yours moves - if she is Spanish-like. The only comment I've ever received has been that my horse needs to slow his legs down...and sometimes he does! But a good instructor should be able to tell a horse's way of going from weakness.

It's great that she handled everything so well though! She sounds brilliant.
 
Roxylola said:
*disclaimer I am no expert
But, I think the iberian horses are so naturally collected they are inclined to look like they are being worked in a medium (or higher) outline without really trying. So I sort of understand if the instructor is thinking you are asking her to work that way as opposed to her offering it theyd want to encourage you to work more of a prelim outline. However, in my (limited) experience they find it harder to work that way than collected
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This actually makes sense to me, and follows what I've experienced. Took me a bit, but my horse has more adjustability now, however, he's always wanted to ride in a higher "outline" and it's the way he is built.
 
Roxylola said:
*disclaimer I am no expert
But, I think the iberian horses are so naturally collected they are inclined to look like they are being worked in a medium (or higher) outline without really trying. So I sort of understand if the instructor is thinking you are asking her to work that way as opposed to her offering it theyd want to encourage you to work more of a prelim outline. However, in my (limited) experience they find it harder to work that way than collected
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I think it's this. I think the way she sits weight on her back end was mistaken for not being able to hold up my weight on her back or her way of moving was mistaken for me asking her to do it too soon. It's just the way she moves.

CC she is every bit Spanish!

I am thrilled with a month broken horse travelling and working in a strange place in a group lesson. I was all prepared just to stand with her and watch the others the first time, but there was no need.

What a sweetheart :)
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Wow, I haven't checked this thread in ages and it sounds like she's coming on brilliantly. Yay for such a positive first trip out. Don't worry about the instructor, it sounds like they might have been projecting a bit, it's certainly easy to carried away early on with something like a nice moving PRE, but that doesn't mean you are or will.

Had to laugh random behaviour - Dabs is only half bred but has a very typical PRE brain, and while you could quite merrily hack him through a circus without him batting an eye, he will frequently spook at his own rug being put on. I frequently have need to request that he have a day off from being ridiculous. It's just who he is - a fearless war horse ready to charge into battle, but when back in his stable will scare himself with his own fart. ?
 
I have seen some Spanish horses that are kind of "squatty" for lack of a better term. The hind end is really underneath. Can look a bit different, but not necessarily weak.
 
ycbm said:
We had our first outing yesterday and it went really well, but I came home very flat about it.

She loaded well to go and come home. She tried running backwards into the wall a couple of times, but got nowhere so she gave up and travelled pretty quietly.

I rode her for about 25 minutes in a group lesson with four others and she was perfectly behaved.

But the arena surface is terrible, it's difficult to walk across it is so deep in loose rubber, so I'm not sure about taking her there again. And the trainer told me that her back end is so weak that I should be very careful what I do with her. I don't understand this comment, I think she's got the strongest back and is more developed than any horse I have ever started. I'm wondering if they mistook her Spanish movement for weakness, but it did put a downer on the day :(
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What a shame for her first outing not to leave you feeling delighted :( I think, a bit, that we all see what we want to see and trainers/instructors are only human. Having had exactly this experience with my young horse (including the awful surface) a few weeks ago I do think that first outing/first training (especially with a different person) is a good time to take stock and it is at least thought provoking to have someone else's view/eye. It's quite tough though to pick out the bones of what you want from this situation I found. FWIW, at least your mare is fully developed and sounds lovely though of course (as you know) she can't have the strength and muscling of a more established riding horse; perhaps the trainer was just exercising some caution because of her slightly different way of moving? Was the trainer someone who knows this sort of horse well? It might help to work with someone who understands the type a bit better possibly. But in any case it sounds like a cause for celebration that your lovely mare was so happy to go out, work for a bit and then home again; definately a win!!

I have to say that I agree with shortstuff99 about fiestas...!! :) :)
 
I think the comments say more about the instructor than they do about your girl. I am sure you are more than capable of seeing if a horse is particularly weak in any area and it is such early days yet. I am probably becoming a cynical old *** in my old age but I often find that "experts" on first meeting are quick to fine fault areas which miraculously transform under their tutelage in the coming months!!!
 
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