Introducing...Rocky

[PapaverFollis]

When you bring him back in... keep him on lead, have his bed next to your chair and a tub of kibble discreetly in reach. Sit down in the chair and ignore him. If he looks at his bed calmly place a piece of kibble on the bed. Do that everyone he even looks at the bed for a bit. Keep all movement slow and calm. Place each piece of kibble quietly down. Start expecting him to be stood on the bed before the next bit goes down. Vary delivery times. 2 seconds, 10 seconds, 7 seconds, 20 seconds. Don't look at him or otherwise interact. Do this for 5 minutes or so. Then ignore. If he starts going bonkers again I would, personally, pop him back in his car safe space for another time out. Before trying again. Others might disagree and I'm happy to be wrong there but that's what is in my toolkit and tolerance level. I would hope that eventually he'll either exhaust himself or get through to the relaxed place.

 

[PapaverFollis]

The deaf border puppy we fostered for a while literally had to be in a crate covered up like a canary in order for him to be able to switch off at all at first. He was only about 10 weeks old but was "sports bred" and hyped to the nines. Even looking at anything seemed to send him over threshold! We got him straightened out enough for life eventually. He was always going to be wired but he did learn to control himself a bit. But it was all just very calm training, and training to be calm, and limited stimulation for quite a long time.

 

[Sandstone1]

You may have tried this already but a stuffed kong may help calm him down? chewing can help them settle, a adaptil diffuser or spray, have you thought about zylkene tablets? they may help.

 

[BBP]

Sounds like you really do have your hands full, and although what you are saying is exactly what I expected he would be like when you said you were taking him on, it’s very different to actually be faced with it. I found my dog very hard as an adolescent, it was exhausting, and he didn’t have any history, just his genetics and my circumstances. Obviously so worthwhile now, and such a wonderful dog, but I get how relentless it can feel. I’m not experienced enough to offer advice, just a sympathetic ear.

I guess the only bit I can try to give is watch your own heart rate and stress, my dog is absolutely tuned in to mine, so I have to consciously calm everything, slow my heart rate, slow my speech, drop the pitch of my voice. Everything is slow and steady. Just saying ‘hi’ in a bright voice sparks him up, so I keep myself super cool unless I want to spark him up. It’s been good for me too. I figured if I can’t control my stress and emotional response to what he is doing, how on earth can I expect him to control his emotional responses, I’m the rational human after all. I’m much more emotionally stable as a person since I worked all this out, as I can’t afford to get stressed out!)

 

[CorvusCorax]

OK let me break this down as I don't think I am making myself clear. Pardon my brevity.

- This dog sounds like he consistently makes poor decisions. From that I deduce he is not mentally strong enough to make his own decisions and cope with the consequences, therefore you must step in.

- He Should Not Be Given The Opportunity To Run Around Barking and being a knob. No 'playing', no crazy stuff, his world is going to have to get very small and boring and low energy for a while. Agree re giving him stuff to chew.

Fair: This is your world, here are your boundaries. You do not get the opportunity to make the wrong decisions and then stress at the consequences, as I will be making them all for you, you don't have to worry about a thing.

Unfair: Have all the freedom you want. Do what you like. HEY NOT THAT MUCH FREEDOM, DON'T EAT THAT, STOP BARKING/GOING MAD.
And the more freedom he has, the more frustrated and likely to lash out he will be when you decide for whatever reason, he cannot have it. He will not be able to understand the difference/when you're fed up.

- Yes it's joyless and boring but it is what I believe this dog needs. Much as dogs are there for our enjoyment, we have a responsibility to help them enjoy life too
and sometimes that can be a long and boring process.

 

[MrsMozart]

I echo the something to chew.

Our stressier one gets worked up and takes it out on his brother usually. If he has a safe chew then that's what gets it and he has focus and calms.

Taking on rescues can be relentless and boring and knackering. The need to keep up the calm and low energy is tiring; then when it's not all going to even a close approximation to plan then it can feel like a kick in the teeth, even though you know it's not personal in that moment it feels like it is but you have to keep the calm firm persona going.

 

[Karran]

CC is right. The dog is bubbling over. You need to slooooow everything down.

I had it explained to me as a bucket with a hole. And each dog has a different size bucket and hole. Everything that happens over a day goes into the bucket. Mrs Spaniel has a childs bucket but a large hole so she maintains a relatively calm manner unless flyball or agility is involved.

Miss Collie, has a thimble bucket with a tiny hole. It doesn't take much to overflow it - a day perhaps with a dpd delivery, then meeting the wrong dog in the park along with seeing a jogger and she cant empty her bucket, the hole is too small to do so herself, and the only way she can manage it is by chase, vaulting off of furniture, destroying things. My job (and yours) is to manage this with calming activities, mat work, sniff work, slow heel work, long lasting chews etc.

Rocky will be a different dog once you figure out what helps calm him.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

A psychologist once said to me 'all behavior is in the service of the reduction of tension'. He was talking about children, of course but the same applies to all living things. Rocky is very stressed and the only way for him to reduce the tension, is to race around etc. His (new) people can help him by keeping stress levels as low as possible.

 

[JennBags]

Thank you everyone.

 

[CorvusCorax]

When you bring him back in... keep him on lead, have his bed next to your chair and a tub of kibble discreetly in reach. Sit down in the chair and ignore him. If he looks at his bed calmly place a piece of kibble on the bed. Do that everyone he even looks at the bed for a bit. Keep all movement slow and calm. Place each piece of kibble quietly down. Start expecting him to be stood on the bed before the next bit goes down. Vary delivery times. 2 seconds, 10 seconds, 7 seconds, 20 seconds. Don't look at him or otherwise interact. Do this for 5 minutes or so. Then ignore. If he starts going bonkers again I would, personally, pop him back in his car safe space for another time out. Before trying again. Others might disagree and I'm happy to be wrong there but that's what is in my toolkit and tolerance level. I would hope that eventually he'll either exhaust himself or get through to the relaxed place.

I do place/bed training with my puppy on a house line. So there's no opportunity for her to go anywhere. I either say the word, click, throw the food on it (there's no point in her getting up, the food is always on the bed).
Or, I sit on the floor beside the bed and just stroke her slowly and/or let her hold a Kong on a rope.
This evening when she started getting above herself/bitey (think overtired toddler) she got popped back into crate for a rest.

 

[Mynstrel]

Hes been walked, he's been fed, he's done some training, he's had a play. All he's doing is running round,jumping and barking at the back door,. Tried having him on a lead next to me, just kept jumping up, trying to run off and barking. I've been home almost 2 hours and he hasn't stopped. Getting to the end of my tether.

Sounds like a combination of over stimulated and over tired. Enforced downtime and rest sounds a good plan generally to stop him getting into that sort of state. If he doesn't like a crate in the house is there a different room he'd settle in on his own for his rest times if you don't want to or can't use the car all the time?

Our lad is a horrible grumpy mess if he doesn't have a sleep after tea every night, and the more you try to do with him the worse he gets, you just have to make him settle until he comes down again. He's worse and gets to that point quicker if he's had a busy day or days leading up to it so I just treat him like a toddler and put him to bed when he's been busy/excited so he doesn't get tired and silly

 

[JennBags]

Today hasn't been too bad. At the office every time I went on a Zoom, he started barking, I tried putting him in his crate and put a blanket on top but he just got louder and louder so I had to end my meeting!
This evening we got home and he immediately was full of it, so after his dinner I just made him lie down and kept feeding him kibble/treats. Then got Mr JB to take over while I sorted dinner out. He's now attached to me getting regular treats all the time he's lying down. When he gets up, I call him and get him to lie down again. He almost fell asleep earlier but then woke again.
Do I just keep feeding him treats all night?

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'd just use his normal kibble and feed him that way. He doesn't eat unless he's calm and paying attention to you. I'd have put him in the car (if it was there!) for the Zoom thing. If I'm Zooming pup is in crate in hall with a Kong (she doesn't need it now) and either TV or radio on.
You can't train a dog and work at the same time so don't set yourself up to fail.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Do I just keep feeding him treats all night?

It should be from his daily allocation, so no big feed, drip feed his tea in this way. Then he’ll see that he only gets food from you, building great associations and he’s relying on you, there’s no food in the bowl so it’s not an ‘anonymous“ feed that has nothing to do with you.

 

[TheresaW]

I don’t know if this is relevant, but when we first brought Bo home, he followed me absolutely everywhere. I couldn’t even go for a wee, he would sit at bathroom door and cry. We started me taking Luna to horses with me, and OH would walk Bo out and about on his own. I’d say he’s still more “my” dog than OH’s, but it’s only in little ways now. If I go to bed first, he’ll come up with me, whereas will stay downstairs if OH goes first. Same when we get up of a morning. He’ll only go downstairs if OH is up first when he hears him getting their breakfast.

I’m sure I read either on here or somewhere else, that Collies can develop obsessions?

 

[JennBags]

At last!

https://flic.kr/p/2krybBQ

 

[Karran]

Hurray!!!

 

[JennBags]

CC I didn't realise he'd get so loud while I was Zooming, or I would have put him in the car. I'll do that tomorrow.
Its been a peaceful evening but he's eaten a lot of kibble! All feed is now going to be by hand, for him lying down and being calm. No other training, this will be our focus from now on.
He's not interested in Kongs, or chews unfortunately.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Success! Well done!

And you have a plan, that's even better.

 

[JennBags]

I do have a plan, thanks to all the kind people on here, if it weren't for all of you I don't know what we'd have done. I know there will continue ro be ups and downs but every day my toolkit expands and I find out something new.

 

[MrsMozart]

You're doing such a good job with him.

It's definitely not easy and can feel sometimes like it's not getting anywhere, but as D1 has been reminding me lately, even three steps forward and two back means we're ahead a step.

If probably add 'consistency', so keep everything the same and he doesn't have to get wired wondering what's coming next. It helps our stressier one. Over time we've been able to become more flexible.

 

[Mynstrel]

Well done. That picture is a huge win for you! Can I ask though how you're feeding him for calm without Juno getting in on the act? That's the very thing I struggle with for mine and you're managing it much better than I am ?

 

[JennBags]

Well done. That picture is a huge win for you! Can I ask though how you're feeding him for calm without Juno getting in on the act? That's the very thing I struggle with for mine and you're managing it much better than I am ?

With difficulty! Juno is also getting kibble at the same time, there's not really any other option without shutting her out all evening which I am not going to do. She does go off to her crate which is behind the sofa for a sleep after a while, and whilst they do both get possessive over food, as long as they're both getting something they are OK.

 

[Mynstrel]

With difficulty! Juno is also getting kibble at the same time, there's not really any other option without shutting her out all evening which I am not going to do. She does go off to her crate which is behind the sofa for a sleep after a while, and whilst they do both get possessive over food, as long as they're both getting something they are OK.

Thanks JB ?

 

[Clodagh]

At last!

https://flic.kr/p/2krybBQ

I want to see the corresponding photo of the humans, are you crashed too!?

 

[JennBags]

I'm afraid things escalated again today and he went for Mr JB, bit him quite badly. We can't keep him, he's making us all unhappy. I've phoned his former owner who is going to make the decision as to whether she will have him back or if we are going to take him to the vets, I don't think he's a safe dog and I wouldn't want to pass him onto someone else, we've maybe not done everything absolutely right but we've not done anything to warrant the aggression that he's shown.
I've put him in the car for 20 minutes so we can have some peace but feel really guilty for it.

 

[AmyMay]

Sorry JB. Wise decision xx

 

[elizabeth1]

Sorry JB. Wise decision xx

Agree.
Wonderful old horseman I knew would take in difficult horses for owners
He said after two weeks he would give them one of three choices
Good horse problem sorted he should be ok for you
Or
Good horse but better suited to a professional home or a more active life than you want . I can sell him if you wish
Or
This horse is dangerous to ride/ handle. I recommend PTS.
sometimes option 3 is the only option x

 

[Sandstone1]

Has he had a full check up with the vet? Just to rule out any physical problems which may be contributing to his problems..

 

[Karran]

Poor boy. And poor you. It's a better decision than moving him on and confusing the poor sod any more. Having been there, It's a brave decision to make and one I've also agonised over.