Introducing...Rocky

TheresaW

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 January 2006
Messages
8,810
Location
Nottinghamshire
www.justgiving.com
I really feel for you JB. I will say, when we got Bo, we were told, if it didn’t work out, we were to take him back before passing him on. He wasn’t anywhere near as bad as Rocky, but a few times I felt “what have we done”? Quietly, I was asked, rather than take him back, would we please PTS instead.
 

blodwyn1

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 February 2015
Messages
888
Visit site
I am sorry to read this but I could see this might happen. We managed to keep our golden cocker til he was seven but by then I had become disabled and needed a groom. When he attacked for the last time we decided to call it a day as if he had disfigured a young girl I would never have forgiven myself. We miss him everyday but it was like a great weight had been lifted from us
 

Karran

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 April 2011
Messages
1,558
Location
London
Visit site
The lady who ran my first attempt at taking Miss Collie to obedience class suggested PTS "when you get bored of trying to fix her". Was also suggested by the behaviorist I got out.

My collie sounds exactly the same from what JB has posted and I know that if she was in a decent rescue instead of me she would still be there now a year and a half later being rehabbed. A bad one would farm her out and she would grow worse and worse as Rocky has until this would be her only option.
I wouldn't send back to the rescue on that basis that they might farm him out again. I can suggest a very decent well respected in agility and flyball circuits border collie rescue but that's not my call, its JB's and I think she's made the best one in ringing the vets.
 

Pearlsasinger

Up in the clouds
Joined
20 February 2009
Messages
44,732
Location
W. Yorks
Visit site
I would suggest contacting the rescue who rehomed him to the previous owner.

Some dogs have a dual chip and the details of the rescue remain on the database along with those of the new owner. Vets should scan before euthanising.

See Tuk's law.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1349008/dog-news-Tuks-law-put-dog-down


That annoys me tbh, there are far worse things than can happen to a dog than pts. Being passed around various homes unsuccessfully, or spending months if not years in kennels being 2 of those things. I really dislike a professional, calm pts being compared to being beaten to death or involved in dog-fighting.
 

skinnydipper

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 February 2018
Messages
6,200
Visit site
That annoys me tbh, there are far worse things than can happen to a dog than pts. Being passed around various homes unsuccessfully, or spending months if not years in kennels being 2 of those things. I really dislike a professional, calm pts being compared to being beaten to death or involved in dog-fighting.

What?

I think you missed the point by a mile.

The vet should scan before PTS. When he/she does scan, JB might not be the registered keeper on the chip; or she may be but the rescue may also be registered and will need to be notified and consent to PTS.

I have suggested contacting the rescue.
 

JennBags

HHOSS Wonder Woman
Joined
21 May 2002
Messages
18,177
Location
West Sussex
Visit site
Thank you all. Currently in the a&e car park as Mr JB's arm has steadily been getting worse and 111 said he should come. We are of course agonising over whether we've given him enough of a chance but I've seen quite a few early signs of aggression, as well as the time he attacked me and this afternoon really was the last straw.
Mr JB has been in tears most of the evening, he feels so devastated about it and blames himself, but I'd rather he was bitten than a random stranger. When Rocky escaped the other day and one of our neighbours caught him, I was very concerned that he'd bite then.
Waiting for previous owner to confirm but I don't think he should go back there, the more we talk about it and think it over, I know in my heart this is the right decision for all of us.
 

Clodagh

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2005
Messages
24,952
Location
Devon
Visit site
I don't want to derail JB's thread when she will obviously be very upset at how things have turned out.

But - remind me, Bo's problem is what exactly? Leash reactivity?

Possibly an unecessary derail as Bo is nothing to do with this thread. Maybe pm TW, or start a new thread? And I know I'm not the forum police but trying not to be insensitive.
 

JennBags

HHOSS Wonder Woman
Joined
21 May 2002
Messages
18,177
Location
West Sussex
Visit site
Possibly an unecessary derail as Bo is nothing to do with this thread. Maybe pm TW, or start a new thread? And I know I'm not the forum police but trying not to be insensitive.
Thanks C but don't worry I'm a tough cookie, if it helps anyone else who might be reading this with a similar situation then I have no issue with it.
 

TheresaW

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 January 2006
Messages
8,810
Location
Nottinghamshire
www.justgiving.com
It isn't me that keeps dragging Bo's name onto the thread.

I’m sorry you feel I was dragging him into the thread. We can only try and share experiences which might help. Yes, he has leash reactivity, but there were many smaller issues as well, which we have been able to overcome luckily.

I apologise JB if anything I’ve posited hasn’t been helpful. I don’t pretend or otherwise to be an expert.
 

Pearlsasinger

Up in the clouds
Joined
20 February 2009
Messages
44,732
Location
W. Yorks
Visit site
What?

I think you missed the point by a mile.

The vet should scan before PTS. When he/she does scan, JB might not be the registered keeper on the chip; or she may be but the rescue may also be registered and will need to be notified and consent to PTS.

I have suggested contacting the rescue.


No, I didn't miss the point. The article quoted the MP who introduced the law as a Private Members Bill and likened pts by a vet to being beaten to death. I am afraid this 'fluffy bunny' no animal should ever be pts under any circumstances attitude drives me mad. Is the rescue the official owner or did the person who gave Rocky to JB become the owner? If the rescue were the owner why did JB get him from the previous owner? I have no objection to the vet scanning for a chip but what exactly do you think they will find? If the rescue is a responsible organisation why didn't they sort out his behavioural problems before rehoming him? It's not as if the problems have only surfaced with JB, is it?
 

JennBags

HHOSS Wonder Woman
Joined
21 May 2002
Messages
18,177
Location
West Sussex
Visit site
I’m sorry you feel I was dragging him into the thread. We can only try and share experiences which might help. Yes, he has leash reactivity, but there were many smaller issues as well, which we have been able to overcome luckily.

I apologise JB if anything I’ve posited hasn’t been helpful. I don’t pretend or otherwise to be an expert.
Nothing to apologise for TW, all experiences have been helpful and I enjoy hearing about your journey with Bo x
 

skinnydipper

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 February 2018
Messages
6,200
Visit site
Is the rescue the official owner or did the person who gave Rocky to JB become the owner? If the rescue were the owner why did JB get him from the previous owner?

I have no idea.


I hope it works out for you and Rocky but if it doesn't, there is no shame in that. He is a young dog with many years ahead of him and it would not be good for you to be stressed for the next 10 years or more.

If you feel he needs to be rehomed, please contact the Rescue that he came from rather than try to rehome him yourself. There is often a clause in the adoption agreement that the dog must be returned to them.
 
Last edited:

FinnishLapphund

There's no cow on the ice
Joined
28 June 2008
Messages
11,251
Location
w(b)est coast of Sweden
Visit site
I'm so sorry that it has come to this, and I hope it doesn't take too long before the A/E have been able to fix Mr JB.
I presume that the owner who gave him to you is the current legal owner, and thereby have the right to give you permission to euthanise him, or decide what else should happen to him.

According to what I've read about Tuk's Law, the problem in Tuk's case was that someone who was not the registered keeper (owner?) took him to the veterinarian, and had him euthanised, without permission from the registered owner of the dog.
I don't know about how it works according to UK law, but as I understand it, in Sweden, regardless if a rescue is also registered on a chip, or if there is two chips where one is registered on a rescue, the current legal owner is still the only one who have the right to decide if the dog should be euthanised, taken back to them or the rescue.

Even if you've signed an agreement saying that you must return the dog to the Swedish rescue, it is actually up to the legal owner if they wish to abide by that or not.

As long as there isn't animal abuse involved. But wanting to euthanise a dog that have attacked, and bitten a person so badly that a trip to the A/E is required, a dog who spends too much of his time being over stressed (and whilst he's in the over stressed mode he's not a happy dog), is not the same as animal abuse.

Again, I'm so sorry to hear that it turned out like this JennBags. You tried your best, but sometimes there is just too much mental damage to fix them, no matter how much you wish it was possible.
Judging by the pictures, he at least had some lovely moments together with you.
 
Last edited:

SusieT

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 September 2009
Messages
5,915
Visit site
Unless there is an extremely experienced kind collie, possibly behaviourist home who is used to dealing with highly stressed and motivated dogs who will bite when pushed (and to be fair to the dog there are some potential red flags here in the management of this dog in this home that it may be that a very experienced training home would not make - access to beds/bedrooms/sofas where the risk of a bite incident being set off is high due to so many factors with a new dog + one owner not fully on board with having a risky dog in the house- though they clearly didn't create the behaviour which is from previous life etc.) the kindest thing is likely to pts this dog.
Returning him to a home who wasn't coping is as you rightly say not appropriate.
Given that he has been through 5 homes unless a really really committed suitable home can be found there can be no other option. And even then consideration should be given to public safety as he is known to bite. I do hope the bite is not too serious.

I wonder if the previous owners told the full truth on his temperament as it sounds like you/partner wouldn't have knowingly taken on a biter.
 
Last edited:

EventingMum

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 September 2010
Messages
6,026
Location
The Wet West of Scotland
Visit site
So sorry to hear this, I think you are making a brave decision and I hope Mr JB is ok and heals quickly.

My BiL had a farm-bred collie from a puppy and encountered similar problems. Their previous dog had looked a little like a BC although he wasn't (Spanniel x various other things eg a mongrel!) which encouraged them to get the collie. They were not prepared for a high energy, quick brained, nervous dog at all. They tried really hard, engaged a trainer and a behaviourist but things continued to deteriorate to the point they couldn't touch him and they decided to pts. The vet did a final exam and discovered an especially sore point on his shoulder, although he wasn't lame, a pm showed he had a massive tumour. Whether or not that was causing all the problems they don't know but it certainly wouldn't have helped and the vet said it would have been untreatable. I'm not saying this is the case with Rocky but sometimes there can be other unknown issues adding to the problems.
 
Top