Irish Draught vs Cleveland Bay

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GSD Woman

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A friend and I were talking at work today about heritage livestock. She is raising Bourbon Red turkeys, which is what got us started on the subject of rare and endangered breeds. I said that if I were to win the lottery and be able to buy a farm that I can't decide between Irish Draught and Cleveland Bays. What breed would you chose to breed as an all around, fairly sensible breed for riding, hunting and unaffiliated showing and eventing?
 
I've never owned an ID but I did have a lovely CB. One of the best horses I've had. I recently bought a Dales (also rare!) although another CB was my number one choice but I just couldn't find one.
Very underrated imo. Mine did everything and was totally honest and genuine. They don't come in flashy colours, which may be part of their downfall I suppose, but they also make a good cross. It's a shame there aren't more about.
 
I had a sports horse who was half Cleveland Bay, and she was amazing. I have also ridden a pure, and he was great in his own way, but the half bred was up there with any other competition horse. She did open team chase, had the heart of a lion!

But then I also rate ID Xs. But The Cleveland Bay is in more danger, so if I started a farm for saving a breed, it would be a CB farm.
 
The first horse I bought in the UK was a CBxAnglo-Arab. A 4yo - supposedly backed. He wasn't - and it took a long time to get him going right. He napped for England - and was just as happy on 2 legs as 4. I hunted him fr 10 years until he was killed in the field by a Percheronx mare who kicked him in the head. I suspect he just had the worst of all 3 breeds, lol. Probably exacerbated by bad early handling. By the time he was 10m he was much better, but at the end of a day's hunting, if another, bigger hrse came up alongside him he would go straight up. Wierd! Put me off CMs for ever, lol. I'vebred nearly 150 IDs - mainly pure but some TB x. NONE have been as 'difficult' as he was.
 
Goldenstar said:
If I had to have a CB I would not have a horse .
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Interesting...strong opinion. How so?
I'm definitely a huge ID fan, I've only met a handful of CB's, one full the rest x's and to be honest I've found them to be a bit dull. They are very endangered though so agree with Red-1 if I was interested in breeding for conservation I would choose CB's.
 
I used to work for someone who had a thing for CB’s I really found them stubborn and hard work and they lack that hilarious ID view of the world nothing like an ID to make you laugh every day .
CB’s are magnificent in a team of carriage horses that’s their thing imo .
My friend did have a nice CB cross he was a sweet horse.
 
I think I would have to say CB.. when my horsey obsession was first starting I was at a yard with a very knowledgeable CB owner, she was so lovely and had at the time the biggest most lovely, soppy, gentle giant I had ever seen!! I think I have always had a soft spot for CB since then..
 
One of the best horses I ever rode was a CB. She was loving, loyal and would try her heart out. Safe as houses with a sense of humor. She wasn't everyone's cup of tea and she picked her people but she was never nasty to anyone she'd sometimes just ignore people she didn't like. I have a mare at the moment who has the kindest temperament.
I've ridden quite a few CBs and partbreds and a few draughts. I like bothe breeds equally and it would really come down to an individuals personality if I had to choose between them
 
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I used to do endurance riding and the lady I rode for bought a Cleveland Bay. Like previous posters said it was stubborn and liked to go as slow as possible. It was also bad tempered to handle. It was sold to a jumping home and apparently did very well. I suppose horses for courses
 
GSD Woman said:
A friend and I were talking at work today about heritage livestock. She is raising Bourbon Red turkeys, which is what got us started on the subject of rare and endangered breeds. I said that if I were to win the lottery and be able to buy a farm that I can't decide between Irish Draught and Cleveland Bays. What breed would you chose to breed as an all around, fairly sensible breed for riding, hunting and unaffiliated showing and eventing?
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Irish draught every time no hesitating, on my second now and if I was in the market I would get another and another and another.

My first mare was served by a Quarter horse, so my boy is part ID

Even though this mare can be a biotch in season time unlike the last one, and she is spooky, I just love the breed. Oh and it would have to be grey too or dun turning grey
 
I've known a few CBs and they have all been awkward. I know they are getting pretty rare so if I was minded to do something selfless then I suppose that would be the choice made :rolleyes:
But like GS describes I have ridden plenty of ID jokers and they were all thoroughly pleasant horses that I would enjoy being around much more :)
 
I have a CB x ISH who has a lovely temperament, so I’d go CB. That said have also ridden a lovely ID x TB.
Perhaps if you win the lottery you could have both!
 
Irish draught no contest- I’ve ridden 3 Cleveland bays in my time and found them ‘lumpy’ to ride - spooky but slow - worst of both worlds... I find them both ‘none bendy’ but I’m used to Dutch and German horses that are Uber flexible... to the extent that they are very easy to break ... apparently
 
I’ve already decided when I’m older I’ll be looking to breed a CB or 2 to help the breed. Seriously underrated horses especially when crossed with TB’s.
 
Cleveland Bay!
Stubborn and awkward to start with but once you win them over they will do anything for you.
A breed well worth saving. Not many left now.
 
CB =single minded. Once its in their head difficult to budge, a bit like a Highland but unfortuately far more athletic, mine could go sideways at speed. I would love to help save the breed, but having rare breed cows, I have decided that they can stay rare. Now my ID x colt is a lovely boy, at three you would know he still had his tackle.
 
Way back when I had the pleasure/hardship of riding this CBx, at the time she scarred me as she was huge, stubborn and young, and I was only just learning the joys of riding young horses (and also only about 13 myself).

She was an amazing horse, went on to do prelim eventing once she was sold. Have since had a soft spot for CBs!
 

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I would have to say Cleveland bay all the way. Have ridden a lot, probably forty plus, mares, stallions and only one gelding. Most I backed and rode away myself and they were all forward going and NOT nappy or stubborn. They have a great sense of self preservation like mules and I think this is why people seem to have problems. Peoples default seems to be to blame the animal/ breed instead of being more adaptable in their training methods.
 
My boss many years ago, had a CB mare by the queens Mulgrave Supreme, she was lovely to look at but definately one to keep an eye on at all times. She started eventing but never really took to it, she would be awesome one weekend and then a bitch the following weekend, and it didnt make a difference who rode her, it was always on her terms. I think the boss sold her on as a broodmare or a hunter in the end. I refused to ride her as just looking after her was enough to put me off!

I have had 2 ID crosses and they have been the nicest natured and most honest going. Would deffo chose an ID over a CB but thats just my opinion.
 
I'd have to go with a CB but then I'm biased - I have two of them already, one a home bred. I find them lovely characters, yes they can be difficult at times, but so can any horse. Both of mine are brilliant to handle on the ground and lovely to ride. They've done hacking, showjumping, eventing, hunting etc and have really been very honest and tried their best at everything I've asked of them. I understand they're not everyones cup of tea though - they can be opinionated at times!
 
If I was wanting to do a Good Thing and help save a rare breed, then obviously CB. So far as I understand it, the Cleveland Bay started life as a farm horse, which was then "improved" with the addition of TB blood in the 1700s, to make them faster, as driving horses. They have been used to "improve" other breeds, notably some of the European WBs such as the Oldenburg, also originally a driving horse. They must have always had a steady nature, as they were very popular with the Army - hence their massive decline at the beginning of the 20th century! As a riding breed (if there is such a thing), they don't seem to have found popularity with the general public.

However, I have only met one full-bred, who fulfilled all the negative characteristics of the modern version of the breed, being slow moving, slow thinking, nappy and prone to rear when challenged.

I did have the most brilliant little event horse, who was 3/4 TB, 1/4 CB. He was awesome (although also prone to rear when challenged, as a young horse)

If I was breeding for myself, or commercially, then IDs every time. Much more marketable, and I would definitely call them the ultimate all-rounder. You see IDs in virtually every sport, at virtually every level - CBs, not so much!
 
Some friends of mine had CBs & they were, in the main, difficult. The CB x Tbs, on the other hand, were lovely! I think a lot of rare breeds are rare for a reason - Suffolk Punches being another example.
 
Thanks for all of the answers. There is a group a couple hours North West of me that offer ride a Bay days and get together with the local hunts to have a good turn out of CBs. I follow them on Facebook but I have never been able to make it to one of their days to meet with the owners. I'm a decent sized middle aged woman and would want a breed that I wouldn't need to lose weight to ride. I'm not that heavy but my days of riding Arabs and thoroughbreds are probably over.
I like the idea of having both. They could get along with the rare breed cattle, goats and sheep.
 
I think I'd have the CB's for preservation purposes and keep a couple of ID's for riding horses if money were no object. I've always said if I win the lottery I'd try and have some rare native breeds on a farm - pigs birds etc. That said I haven't had tons of experience with CB's but I've known a couple and they weren't my cup of tea although the crosses I've come across have been nice
 
Have had 2 Cleveland Bays, one from a 3 year old. Yes, nappy, challenging, stubborn, slow to mature (didn't stop growing until 8), amazing gallop, massive bucks, a boss in the field, and could float in self carriage on any surface with a finger on the reins - when he felt like it! I learnt that I had to negotiate, not bully, and he became my horse of a lifetime. When very ill for a year, he hacked out perfectly and never put a foot wrong. I realised I was well when he started trying to go home early again! A Cleveland will bond with you in a way European warmbloods don't. Wonderful breed that mustn't be allowed to die out.
 
I've known a few of each breed and certainly wouldn't want a CB myself. The ones I've known have been 'dope on a rope' types, until they weren't! Completely unpredictable and they have caused some the worst 'non-falling' injures that I have ever seen in horse people.

I do like IDs.

But I wouldn't want the CB breed to die out.
 
#SaveOurSuffolks because they can do everything. Mine has just started learning to jump. He just wants to be good, bends like a dream, can be an incredibly sensible and sensitive dressage horse who listens to my smallest movement, but can also be trusted with a beginner. He learns quickly and takes everything in his huge stride.

A friend has a Suffolk cross and he's fabulous. He's like on overgrown chestnut highland.

My friend had a CB mare. Absolutely nuts and needed a good rider to get her best. She had one hell of a buck. She'd never be a novice ride and the sort of horse you'd fear wouldn't have a good life without a good owner. Beautiful horse, sadly missed.
 
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