CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
**Stealing**
Irresponsible Owners
- Thread starter lou246
- Start date
**Stealing**
Boulty
Well-Known Member
I'm struggling a bit with the hooligan spaniel where recall is concerned at the moment. With no distractions he'll check in every few minutes for a reward & will stay fairly close with the odd dash off to investigate a nice smell or chase a bird but won't go out of my eyeline. Generally if I spot a dog before he does he'll come back, be put on lead & then let off again when we've passed (sometimes with a polite hello to the other dog, sometimes not depending on other owners wishes). Occasionally if we get caught out or surprised he will decide to take himself over to say hi whether he has permission or not ( on which occasions he is swiftly retrieved & I apologize.... He is generally fairly well mannered in his greetings & does tend to back off if another dog tells him to bugger off but in an ideal world would prefer him to always come back. I am doing a lot of recall training with him using exercises suggested by a trainer / behaviourist but he's only 7 months so sometimes his brain just stops working!)
He's also twice recently properly sodded off chasing leaves. The first time he did come back after about 30 seconds of being a bellend but the second time my mum (whose timing & tone aren't always the best) was walking him & he spent a good 5 minutes taking the piss so has earnt himself time back on a longline when not in enclosed spaces until he's decided not to be a stroppy teenager / until we can find a toy or treat more exciting than leaves! (Sadly we think he might have some kind of intolerance to chicken & poultry which narrows our options a bit!)
Anyway not much point to this other than that I worry I'll be judged as irresponsible when he's having one of his deaf arsehole moments when 30 seconds earlier he could have been doing an impression of the perfect dog & am trying hard & working alongside a trainer to try & get him as close to 100% reliable as I can
He's also twice recently properly sodded off chasing leaves. The first time he did come back after about 30 seconds of being a bellend but the second time my mum (whose timing & tone aren't always the best) was walking him & he spent a good 5 minutes taking the piss so has earnt himself time back on a longline when not in enclosed spaces until he's decided not to be a stroppy teenager / until we can find a toy or treat more exciting than leaves! (Sadly we think he might have some kind of intolerance to chicken & poultry which narrows our options a bit!)
Anyway not much point to this other than that I worry I'll be judged as irresponsible when he's having one of his deaf arsehole moments when 30 seconds earlier he could have been doing an impression of the perfect dog & am trying hard & working alongside a trainer to try & get him as close to 100% reliable as I can
lou246
Member
It sounds like you are trying your best by using a long line and working with a trainer. That’s what matters and that’s a sign of a responsible owner. From what you’ve said you have made the right decision to keep him on a long line for now, it doesn’t sound like he’s ready to be off the lead in public yet and that’s perfectly fine. Better safe than sorry. It’s the people who genuinely don’t care about what their dogs are doing and have no respect for other people & dogs that are the problem. Good luck with your training!
Annette4
Well-Known Member
As long as people are obviously trying (I have 2 poor recall delinquents myself) I have plenty of patience and empathy for when things go wrong. It's the people who don't see the behaviour as inappropriate who are the issue ?
Karran
Well-Known Member
Yes. Unless the dog is storming in and behaving completely inappropriately, I will always give strangers the benefit of the doubt. Mrs Spaniel is completely dog neutral so I don't worry about her as her default is to avoid and will pop onto a bench or something similar out of the way if necessary and I will ask Mrs Collie to come to heel or sit between my legs to allow the owner to catch up as she still likes to try to engage other dogs in chase games which I don't like unless I know the owner/dog. Its the idiot owners and the repeat offenders that bother me.
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
Seeing as we are having a little moan.
Polite notice.
No matter how cute and adorable you think your dog is, I do not want it jumping all over me.
Thank you.
Polite notice.
No matter how cute and adorable you think your dog is, I do not want it jumping all over me.
Thank you.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
another numpty today, woman walking along narrow pavement next to an A road with a bit of traffic, walking her lurcher type dog on an extending lead at full length...i nearly stopped to tell her that if a squirrel appears on the other side of the road she will have a dead dog who is still on a lead so worse than it being off lead completely, at least it would be able to dodge the traffic....i cant believe the stupidity of people these days
lou246
Member
I was once told I was “not a proper dog person” after I had asked someone to stop letting their muddy dog jump all over me!
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
You know the way that some parents say they love their own kids but aren't fussed about other people's? Same, only dogs 
Identityincrisis
Well-Known Member
Since i muzzled my dog i found it made other owners a LOT more switched on! So it should as my dog is super aggressive so my warning calls to them to shouldn't be ignored! I have found if I'm confronted with an off lead dog who is not listening to it's owner's screams, then a foot out in front of me shouting back very firmly refocuses the dog. 3 years of owning an aggressive dog, i have lost my care of upsetting other owners, THEIR dog is out of control, not mine as he is muzzled, 3 point houdini harness and leader, always by my side when other dogs are around
stangs
Well-Known Member
Nor do I want your crowd of terriers barking at me from all sides for over a minute while you do nothing to retrieve them but say a half-hearted "they just love meeting new people".
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
Speaking as a "dog person"
, I would argue that the numpty should be able to teach their dog manners.
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SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
Saw a post of someone literally saying they check out the clothes of oncoming people to gauge how 'okay' it is for their dog to jump up at them. It was in the context of work in progress training efforts, but still I wouldn't like to be one of the chosen guinea pigs for being jumped up at!
Out with share horse the other day and watched a couple with their two little dogs going bonkers off lead, barking at this poor German shepherd on lead with its owners clearly trying to keep it focused/calm. The small dog owners did absolutely nothing to call their dogs away or put them on lead or even just walk past a bit quicker to help the other owners out. Totally oblivious to me riding near behind them (Ivy was also with OH, thankfully pretty oblivious/uninterested in the whole thing) and then when finally their dogs did move on it was to chase another horse and rider. Fantastic.
Ivy greyhound had her first off lead time with us today - indoor secured arena. It was fantastic fun for her and us, but even if we do get her recall solid I don't think I could ever let her off outside of a secure space - the speed! Really pleased we have a very basic recall in that she gets the idea of 'come' means come to us, so that's a start I guess but with distractions it will be a challenge.
Out with share horse the other day and watched a couple with their two little dogs going bonkers off lead, barking at this poor German shepherd on lead with its owners clearly trying to keep it focused/calm. The small dog owners did absolutely nothing to call their dogs away or put them on lead or even just walk past a bit quicker to help the other owners out. Totally oblivious to me riding near behind them (Ivy was also with OH, thankfully pretty oblivious/uninterested in the whole thing) and then when finally their dogs did move on it was to chase another horse and rider. Fantastic.
Ivy greyhound had her first off lead time with us today - indoor secured arena. It was fantastic fun for her and us, but even if we do get her recall solid I don't think I could ever let her off outside of a secure space - the speed! Really pleased we have a very basic recall in that she gets the idea of 'come' means come to us, so that's a start I guess but with distractions it will be a challenge.
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
I was walking one of my oldies last night and there was a terrier which literally roared its head off at him the whole way along the street (we were walking in the same direction on opposite sides) although mine didn't seem to notice. Point one, if this was the other way around, it would have been really intimidating, point two...that sort of thing would worry me and I would want to work on it, not ignore it?!
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
I’ve had this too-even after I took aversive action to get out of the way as I was dressed up for a meeting. Said dog was apparently a rescue that needed to meet as many strange people as possible to reassure her. stupid woman.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
The idiocy of people using those extending leads never fails to amaze me .
Just before Christmas a lady caused mayhem letting her very excited young dog romp through a crowded pub a older gentleman nearly got pulled over by the lead .
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
We were out with our 2 Labs and the 6 month old pup that we look after during the working day. All were off lead, playing close to us on the Common. We saw someone with a dog walking on another path, ours all ignored dog and owner. The next thing we knew, an off-lead whippetty thing was approaching from behind us.
We called ours to us but the pup hasn't yet got a solid recall, although she is usually pretty good. Pup went up to the whipetty thing whose owner did put it on a lead. I collected the pup and apologised. 'Oh',said WT's owner, 'I thought they must be alright as they were off lead'.
He must have deliberately cut through some bushes, or speeded up ridiculously, to get to us from where we first saw him. Yes, ours are 'alright' but we don't want them 'playing' with dogs that they don't know when we meet them out and about.
We want to be able to take them to parkland where there are plenty of people walking their dogs, without annoying other people.And tbh, if he wants his dog toplay with off-lead dogs, he will.either have to get another of his own or make a proper arrangement to meet someone else with a dog (not us).
We called ours to us but the pup hasn't yet got a solid recall, although she is usually pretty good. Pup went up to the whipetty thing whose owner did put it on a lead. I collected the pup and apologised. 'Oh',said WT's owner, 'I thought they must be alright as they were off lead'.
He must have deliberately cut through some bushes, or speeded up ridiculously, to get to us from where we first saw him. Yes, ours are 'alright' but we don't want them 'playing' with dogs that they don't know when we meet them out and about.
We want to be able to take them to parkland where there are plenty of people walking their dogs, without annoying other people.And tbh, if he wants his dog toplay with off-lead dogs, he will.either have to get another of his own or make a proper arrangement to meet someone else with a dog (not us).
Mero
Well-Known Member
I just had an off lead chihuahua come round a corner by itself, right up into my on-lead dogs face, barking and snarling. My dog is not dog friendly to many others. Owner meandered round the corner 30seconds later, whilst I’m fending it off with my foot. ‘Oh sorry, he always does this, I wouldn’t let him off the lead if I thought he would actually hurt another dog, but he’s so small I don’t really worry’.
…Lucky for you lady my dog maintained some sort of self restraint in not treating your dog like a pre-dinner appetiser.
…Lucky for you lady my dog maintained some sort of self restraint in not treating your dog like a pre-dinner appetiser.
Boulty
Well-Known Member
Will admit that If I'm already muddy from dog or horse I'm not too fussed about other dogs not being 100% perfect & forgetting a few manners as long as they're not total swamp monsters & don't knock me over. If I'm in "normal" clothes though I prefer not to be jumped on (& so generally don't do anything that might be seen as an invitation if I can help it)
As for the delinquent had a really good training session in the playing field near the house on his longline. Plastic sausages on a rope are much more interesting than a ball apparently almost to the point of obsession (drop it needs work as that's another casualty of being a teenager apparently!) & he's starting to maybe finally grasp that he doesn't need to bounce up & down like deranged yo-yo when walking to heel. Only slightly concerning thing is he did some unsure growling at a small child who tried to come up to him. I THINK it was the fact they had their hood up & he couldn't see their face as he's never done that to a child before although I regularly wear hats, hoods etc so he should be used to seeing them (did it to a very shifty looking / erratically behaving adult a few months ago but there was a definite feeling of bad vibes coming off them) but that's another thing to discuss with trainer. (Just took him to one side away from them & apologized but didn't really want to tell him off as such as worried about making it worse if it is fear based) Debating if a pheromone collar may be worth a try as he's taken to barking at the TV / at strange noises in the garden when he didn't used to bother so not sure how if going through a bit of a fear period. (He definitely looks unsure when doing it rather than aggressive & tends to stop if you ignore him... Not that this makes it any more acceptable)
As for the delinquent had a really good training session in the playing field near the house on his longline. Plastic sausages on a rope are much more interesting than a ball apparently almost to the point of obsession (drop it needs work as that's another casualty of being a teenager apparently!) & he's starting to maybe finally grasp that he doesn't need to bounce up & down like deranged yo-yo when walking to heel. Only slightly concerning thing is he did some unsure growling at a small child who tried to come up to him. I THINK it was the fact they had their hood up & he couldn't see their face as he's never done that to a child before although I regularly wear hats, hoods etc so he should be used to seeing them (did it to a very shifty looking / erratically behaving adult a few months ago but there was a definite feeling of bad vibes coming off them) but that's another thing to discuss with trainer. (Just took him to one side away from them & apologized but didn't really want to tell him off as such as worried about making it worse if it is fear based) Debating if a pheromone collar may be worth a try as he's taken to barking at the TV / at strange noises in the garden when he didn't used to bother so not sure how if going through a bit of a fear period. (He definitely looks unsure when doing it rather than aggressive & tends to stop if you ignore him... Not that this makes it any more acceptable)
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
People are asking a lot of dogs to discriminate between people's old mucky clothes and someone's good coat on their way to a job interview or a date etc etc. Best not to let them do it at all and then there is no grey area for them to try and work out.
Same with recall training TBH. If they learn the right thing the first time, rather than being given the benefit of the doubt to dick off and self-satisfy, then there's no need to train over the top of old behaviour with hundreds of repetitions.
Same with recall training TBH. If they learn the right thing the first time, rather than being given the benefit of the doubt to dick off and self-satisfy, then there's no need to train over the top of old behaviour with hundreds of repetitions.
Nasicus
Well-Known Member
My Tibbie is like this, fantastic recall when it's just us/the group we're with, but add in any other person/dog and she's off like a rocket to say hello. So in public, she stays firmly on the lead! She gets her off lead time at the field or at a local secure dog field for individual hire.
To be honest, I wouldn't let off her off the lead even if she was good with distractions, if purely because the breed is notorious for picking a direction and zooming off into the sunset just because... I've had my fill of that from my last Tib!
lou246
Member
Just got back from our usual morning walk and lets just say it was not relaxing! As we were walking along the edge of a field I saw an off lead Labrador and it had already seen us. It started stalking and staring and was completely ignoring its owners calls so I thought “great, here we go again”. I called my two and went into the woods. Labrador follows (must have run at some speed) charges up to my smaller dog and as soon as it smells him it’s hackles go up. Now, my smaller dog is intact and I’m wondering if that’s why it took an instant disliking to him (the lab was neutered). My dog goes tense as there is a large unknown dog looming over him. I tell it to shoo, it doesn’t. It then made a very sudden movement towards my dog and my dog gives a correction. Just a small “go away”. Then all hell breaks loose. The dog completely flattens my dog, pins him to the floor and all I can hear is growling. Now bear in mind my dog is a small terrier and this dog is a large male lab. My setter runs over and has a go at the lab because she sees my smaller dog being flattened but the lab doesn’t back off. If it wanted to kill him it would have but it was all teeth and growling. I don’t want my dog to end up with a broken bone from being squashed though so I grabbed the lab by the collar and dragged it back to its owner, who was just standing in the field looking like he’s in a daydream. My small dog follows but just stands there next to me and the dog that was just pinning him down, like he wasn’t scared but knew he couldn’t win that fight! Owner says, “what did you do that for” to his dog (not that he even knows what ‘that’ was as he was miles away) and I walk off. Bizarre.
Sorry, just needed a bit of a rant. I still don’t think I fully understand what happened but the more I think about it the more I wonder if I could have done something differently! I carry a pet corrector spray but it all happened so quickly I forgot about it. Not sure it would have helped though. Did my dog accidentally start that fight by correcting the dog? Or was it inevitable as the lab was already in a sort of fight mode? I wish I had grabbed it sooner but it all happened so fast. Seriously considering not ever walking there again as we so often meet off lead dogs with no recall now. That would be such a shame as we have walked there for years. Even though my two have solid recall I don’t want to put them in a position where they are going to be charged at by dogs we don’t know the temperament of as anything could happen!
Sorry, just needed a bit of a rant. I still don’t think I fully understand what happened but the more I think about it the more I wonder if I could have done something differently! I carry a pet corrector spray but it all happened so quickly I forgot about it. Not sure it would have helped though. Did my dog accidentally start that fight by correcting the dog? Or was it inevitable as the lab was already in a sort of fight mode? I wish I had grabbed it sooner but it all happened so fast. Seriously considering not ever walking there again as we so often meet off lead dogs with no recall now. That would be such a shame as we have walked there for years. Even though my two have solid recall I don’t want to put them in a position where they are going to be charged at by dogs we don’t know the temperament of as anything could happen!
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CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
That's shocking as you say these things happen so quickly sometimes that it's hard to do much. Your dog did nothing wrong IMO. He was put in a vulnerable position by the Lab and told it to go away and it chose to up the ante. Your dog was not threatening the Lab, which chose to go out of its way to make the distance and approach yours. It's something I've seen in a few Labs locally (make distance towards other dogs and go into a threatening stance, unprovoked) and because they have a stereotypically sunny disposition and no one can read body language these days, the owners give them a by and think they are just going off to 'mAke fWendS'.
as you say these things happen so quickly sometimes that it's hard to do much. Your dog did nothing wrong IMO. He was put in a vulnerable position by the Lab and told it to go away and it chose to up the ante. Your dog was not threatening the Lab, which chose to go out of its way to make the distance and approach yours. It's something I've seen in a few Labs locally (make distance towards other dogs and go into a threatening stance, unprovoked) and because they have a stereotypically sunny disposition and no one can read body language these days, the owners give them a by and think they are just going off to 'mAke fWendS'.lou246
Member
Thanks for replying. I’m glad you think that my dog wasn’t in the wrong! I don’t think he was either but it’s good to get a second opinion. He was attacked quite badly when he was young, he was on lead and the dog ran up from behind, picked him up in its mouth and shook him around. It was horrible! He was also attacked last year (he’s 5 now) but the dog didn’t bite, it was more teeth and noise. It knocked his confidence but I worked hard at building it up again and he’s been doing so well… then something like this happens. I’m worried it will set him back. I always try my best to advocate for my dogs but sometimes dogs come out of nowhere and it all happens so fast. Going to stick to walks where dogs are all on leads for a couple of weeks and hopefully book a secure field for a run around.That's shocking
I understand what you mean about labs and how because they are typically ‘friendly’ some people think they are incapable of aggression. I was once told “he’s a Labrador, he’s harmless” when I asked someone to recall their dog that was not showing positive body language and wouldn’t leave mine alone
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AmyMay
Situation normal
Lou, you did nothing wrong. I’d have done a little more than just walk off though - a few choice words would have been said!
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
Thanks for replying. I’m glad you think that my dog wasn’t in the wrong! I don’t think he was either but it’s good to get a second opinion. He was attacked quite badly when he was young, he was on lead and the dog ran up from behind, picked him up in its mouth and shook him around. It was horrible! He was also attacked last year (he’s 5 now) but the dog didn’t bite, it was more teeth and noise. It knocked his confidence but I worked hard at building it up again and he’s been doing so well… then something like this happens. I’m worried it will set him back. I always try my best to advocate for my dogs but sometimes dogs come out of nowhere and it all happens so fast. Going to stick to walks where dogs are all on leads for a couple of weeks and hopefully book a secure field for a run around.
I understand what you mean about labs and how because they are typically ‘friendly’ some people think they are incapable of aggression. I was once told “he’s a Labrador, he’s harmless” when I asked someone to recall their dog that was not showing positive body language and wouldn’t leave mine alone
Poor little guy and a horrible situation for you to manage alone as well. I don't think you did anything wrong and you did take action to avoid a situation, there's only so much you can do with the other owner not even trying/being oblivious.
I was out with Ivy a couple of weeks ago and a Lab started approaching us. The owners were just letting it wander over not really paying much attention. I still couldn't tell you now what it was about this dog I didn't like the look of but even with it coming over slowly there was something about its body language I didn't like. I stuck my hand up in the air and shouted out 'no!' and thankfully the owners did then recall it. I probably looked really grumpy and maybe I read something that wasn't there but we just have to do what feels right for our dogs.
lou246
Member
I wanted to but I also wanted to get as far away from the dog as possible! Also because I walk on my own I worry about people reacting badly to being confronted. My friend was out with her new rescue dog a few weeks ago and when she asked a man to recall his dog he started shouting abuse and threats at her. It was only because some other dog walkers appeared that he backed off. What is wrong with some people!
AmyMay
Situation normal
I completely understand that xxx
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
Thanks for replying. I’m glad you think that my dog wasn’t in the wrong! I don’t think he was either but it’s good to get a second opinion. He was attacked quite badly when he was young, he was on lead and the dog ran up from behind, picked him up in its mouth and shook him around. It was horrible! He was also attacked last year (he’s 5 now) but the dog didn’t bite, it was more teeth and noise. It knocked his confidence but I worked hard at building it up again and he’s been doing so well… then something like this happens. I’m worried it will set him back. I always try my best to advocate for my dogs but sometimes dogs come out of nowhere and it all happens so fast. Going to stick to walks where dogs are all on leads for a couple of weeks and hopefully book a secure field for a run around.
I understand what you mean about labs and how because they are typically ‘friendly’ some people think they are incapable of aggression. I was once told “he’s a Labrador, he’s harmless” when I asked someone to recall their dog that was not showing positive body language and wouldn’t leave mine alone
That's it, these berks walk off thinking, no harm done, what was the crazy lady so upset about, not seeing the weeks and months of work it took to get the dog over a previous bad experience.
I did have a discussion with someone recently, so many people have 'well behaved' dogs through luck, they just bimble through life while pianos crash down inches away behind them, and then they wonder what the rest of us get so het up about.
There is a woman in town with an extremely aggressive Lab who she muzzles and allows to run off miles from her and literally headbutt other dogs growling while she and her friends laugh and call him weakly. The last time it came barrelling over I ROARED at it and it bailed. I shouted over 'maybe try something like that next time, eh?'. Dozy cow.
I did see spangletwat this morning way ahead of me and took the phone out and took some pics of the dog off the lead if he tries to lie next time....
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
I wonder how the people who don't have a problem with dogs jumping up, would feel about my mastiff with her paws on their shoulders.