Irresponsible Owners

Karran said:
I do always feel very responsible though, having a neurotic toad in Mrs Spaniel, who acts as if the world is ending at the slightest confrontation, human or canine.
I realise how it can affect other dogs and they might not know that GSD's are big triggers for Mrs Collie, but I do, so I end up consumed with guilt that I should have been more aware of my surroundings before letting her off lead and that its my fault for letting the situation happen!
She does look very scary with teeth and hackles raised when she goes into full on gobsh1te! mode. I still recall days where I've sat on her to stop her hurting people, so when she does go into idiot mode I tend to fear the worst!
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Edited - just seen your response to ASBMO
 
Pearlsasinger said:
IMO, it is *never* ok to allow your dog to approach another without asking the owner first. Accidents do happen, obviously, but the owner of the dog which makes an unwanted approach should, at the very least, apologise and remove their dog asap.
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Absolutely. I’ve asked every single person before allowing the youngsters to say hello. There’s a lady who has 2 terriers, one on, one off lead. The off lead approaches us and she gets all angsty about it. Why not put it on lead, then? It’s friendly but if you don’t want your dog approaching others, the solution is pretty easy!
 
Moobli said:
Personally I’m not sure what she had to be shamefaced about when it was Red who approached her? Unless I’m missing the point.
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Red was nowhere near her dogs at the point the one nearly pulled her over to try to get to him. I think she was shame-faced because she had just been telling me how awful it was that people couldn't hold their dogs or control their behaviour. She wasn't making a veiled comment about Red as she knows him well and has said a number of times to me that he is a good lad. When Red had initially walked out of the gate he was very polite to all 3 dogs but then wandered off slightly to investigate something else. It wasn't a dreadful incident by any means though I am still not sure why her dog no 3 decided to have a go. Red was off his lead which I guess could have made her dog (on a lead) uncomfortable. I very rarely have Red on a lead in fact but he is very dog neutral and will recall very easily if I do see other dogs and I will put him on a lead then. It is virtually a non-occurence though as I hardly ever walk Red where we meet other people or dogs. Her dog trying to pull her over whilst snarling at mine (who had his nose down in a clump of grass) was the thing I think she was embarrassed about and tbh I was a bit ???? as to my view my dog was not causing an issue. Perhaps I was in the wrong though?

I think I get that as Red was essentially wandering about and walked up to the 3 dogs being walked initially (though that was without any tension at all) I should have removed him immediately? I guess I thought that as he knows 2 of the dogs well and I was at my garden gate it wasn't an issue. It is interesting to hear that people think this is an issue actually though the chances of that very scenario happening again are incredibly rare. I often meet dogs walking loose or with horses or sheepdogs with their vehicles so it doesn't feel 'odd' to me to have a dog off lead.
 
Yesterday's path was 15 feet wide. Three walkers coming towards us, two dogs on extendable leads. One person in the middle of the path, the other two with dogs at the outer edges of the path. Dog on the lead of the person on the left was at the far right edge of the path. Dog on the lead of the person on the right was at the far left edge of the path. And they did nothing about that until we were forced to stop and stand still to avoid being tangled up in their mess.

Bad use of extendable leads is too common for comment, but that one took the biscuit. I can't quite decide what punishment is good enough for owners that stupid and antisocial. Offers?
.
 
ycbm said:
Yesterday's path was 15 feet wide. Three walkers coming towards us, two dogs on extendable leads. One person in the middle of the path, the other two with dogs at the outer edges of the path. Dog on the lead of the person on the left was at the far right edge of the path. Dog on the lead of the person on the right was at the far left edge of the path. And they did nothing about that until we were forced to stop and stand still to avoid being tangled up in their mess.

Bad use of extendable leads is too common for comment, but that one took the biscuit. I can't quite decide what punishment is good enough for owners that stupid and antisocial. Offers?
.
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Controversial(?) opinion, but I think extendable leads should be banned. I’ve never seen or heard of a reasonable argument for their use, which wouldn’t be solved by the use of a long line instead.

Far too often they’re used dangerously, incorrectly, and at a risk to others. Attached to collars instead of harnesses, head collars or chain collars instead of harnesses, used loose on dogs with no recall and so no way to reel the dog back in, used loose and so no way to control a lunging dog, they’re a trip and tangle hazard for people and dogs alike, not to mention the awful stories of dogs stepping off pavements and being hit by cars. There’s absolutely no difference between a dog being on an extendable lead, and being off-lead. So if they need/are being put in an extendable, then it should be a long line instead, to maintain some modicum of control.
 
I was driving down a road with a national limit the other day and came over the brow of a slight hill to find person walking in the direction of traffic movement (so with her back to me not able to see me coming) with a retriever. Fine, she was off on the verge and I had seen them both so no problem. Until my eye was drawn to something else, which turned out to be a small brown terrier merrily trotting down the other side of the road, with its extendable lead at full stretch.? so lucky it didn’t get squished.
 
fiwen30 said:
There’s absolutely no difference between a dog being on an extendable lead, and being off-lead.
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Responsible extendable lead user here :). They are very useful things if used correctly, and are very different to being off lead, and much handier than a long line.

The JRT has suspect recall, and would leg it after any small furry, so she is always walked on lead. The extendable lead is locked to normal short lead length in any situation which demands it, such as walking on the road, or walking by other dogs or walkers. They do have a lock button, but unfortunately many extendable lead owners either are unaware that it exists or never use it.

She's allowed full extension in areas where it is safe, such as open woodland or moorland or crossing a field with no stock or crops. She can stop and sniff to her heart's content, but gets reeled in immediately if necessary. We never let her barrel up to anyone/anything.

She enjoys her walks and sniffs much more than if she was on a short lead or a long line dragging along the ground, and we have control of her.

The purists can raise their hands in shock and horror, but it can be done well.
 
Clodagh said:
I can’t see how you can teach a dog to heel and also use a long line. Surely it learns to pull to get to smells and items of interest?
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I’ve never had a problem, personally. These days we mostly do pavement walking, with grass time in the middle, and he can stop and sniff whenever he wants. But when he was younger, and on the same long line, he could be asked to heel for whatever period was necessary, and then released forwards again on the line, just like being off-lead, but with more control on a fixed line vs an extendable lead. When asked to heel, there was no tugging just because he was on lead. But then again, I’ve never required him to constantly walk at heel, so your mileage may vary.
 
fiwen30 said:
I’ve never had a problem, personally. These days we mostly do pavement walking, with grass time in the middle, and he can stop and sniff whenever he wants. But when he was younger, and on the same long line, he could be asked to heel for whatever period was necessary, and then released forwards again on the line, just like being off-lead, but with more control on a fixed line vs an extendable lead. When asked to heel, there was no tugging just because he was on lead. But then again, I’ve never required him to constantly walk at heel, so your mileage may vary.
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Sorry by long line I mean extendable, just realised why so much confusion! ?
 
I love my 10m flexi on a flat collar ? my dogs do come back when I call them and have distance control (can go into a position away from me) and walk beside me on a loose line.
I used to hate them until I learned how to use them properly and the tape ones are best.
They are invaluable for travel IMO.
I saw a dog pop off the pavement onto the road yesterday on a normal lead. I think idiots are the problem rather than the equipment.

I am teaching my young dog competition heeling and formal recall, she has a very thin biothane long line on/dragging on the ground, it's just there in case I need to stand on it but she hasn't fecked off in weeks. I do this in a fenced training ground.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Responsible extendable lead user here :). They are very useful things if used correctly, and are very different to being off lead, and much handier than a long line.
The JRT has suspect recall, and would leg it after any small furry, so she is always walked on lead. The extendable lead is locked to normal short lead length in any situation which demands it, such as walking on the road, or walking by other dogs or walkers. They do have a lock button, but unfortunately many extendable lead owners either are unaware that it exists or never use it.
She's allowed full extension in areas where it is safe, such as open woodland or moorland or crossing a field with no stock or crops. She can stop and sniff to her heart's content, but gets reeled in immediately if necessary. We never let her barrel up to anyone/anything.
She enjoys her walks and sniffs much more than if she was on a short lead or a long line dragging along the ground, and we have control of her.
The purists can raise their hands in shock and horror, but it can be done well.
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Same here! There's nothing wrong with a flexi-lead when used correctly and responsibly! Unfortunately most people seem to think that as long as the dog is technically connected to them by the lead, then what does it matter if that's 1 meter or 10 meters?
It's the perfect solution for the wee terror that likes to zoom off into the sunset. Longlines are great, but she's so small that the line hitches on things like stalky plants, roots etc and she's not strong enough to unhitch them herself like a bigger dog would.
With the flexi, she gets to have a 20m circle of freedom when appropriate, but is quickly and easily reeled in and locked when needed.
 
Tiddlypom said:
If you've got solid recall installed then you wouldn't need a flexi lead. We have selective recall which goes out of the window if there's a better offer, such a bunny, a cat or a squirrel :rolleyes:.
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Exactly that. It's not through lack of trying, I've spent hours working on recall since she was tiny, but she's just not reliable and extremely independent. She'll stop, look back at you, and weigh it up. Even the tastiest of treats, the maddest of dancing and the most excited of calling means zilch to her if she decides she's doing her own thing thankyouverymuch. She can be excitedly recalling back to you for a little party, delicious meats lovingly cooked and chopped alongside heaps of praise, and then the next recall she sticks two fingers up and buggers off.
To be honest, it's not a surprise to me, the breed is notorious for being unable to be trusted off lead. You look up breed descriptions from breed societies and almost all of them warn readers as such! I knew what I was getting into after my last one ?
But the flexi lead is godsend, allows her the freedom she craves, whilst keeping her safe and under control. Plus there's no chance of it getting dragged through something unsavoury like a longline ?
 
I use a flexi with Luna. I would say 90% of the time she has good recall, but it only takes a squirrel/rabbit, anything that runs, and the prey drive kicks in. Just not worth the risk. I used to use a long line, but in busier areas, the flexi is easier to pull her in whilst putting the two collies on their leads as needed.

We still use the long lead (longer than the flexi) when in open fields, at the beach etc.
 
Clodagh said:
I can’t see how you can teach a dog to heel and also use a long line. Surely it learns to pull to get to smells and items of interest?
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Depends, I think. Mitch tends not to get to the point of being at full stretch, but I’m deffing the longlines, it’s really difficult with 2! They were good recalling today but there were far more people than usual which was distracting and they were very keen to say hello, of course encouraged by the people seeing a cute pair of puppies. One bloke lay down to play! More work needed. I want 100%, not 80%.
 
Nasicus said:
Witnessed a bit of a weird one on saturday. Took smol dog to a local meadow, paths through it and very popular dog walking spot in that particular village. Shortly after we got there, a guy come in with a Pointer of some kind, and he proceeded to powerwalk around the meadow with his mobile phone glued to his ear, dog off lead and wandering all over the place.
In the far corner, on a path that splits off the main as a kind of lump and rejoins, there was a guy sat on the bench, throwing a ball for his dog, some sort of staffy terrier cross thingy.
I stuck to the main path, but as I went by, Phone guy powerwalked his way towards Bench Guy, followed by Pointer. Bench Guy calls Terrier to him and grabs his collar. Pointer starts to move over towards Terrier, Terrier loses his mind. Bench Guy is yelling Stay Back! Away! to Pointer whilst Terrier snarls and thrashes around. Phone Guy gives a short whistle (which doesn't do much) and continues striding post on the phone. Pointer get closer then loses interest and waders vaguely after his owner.

Found out from another walker that both are regulars, Bench Guy's dog is apparently a rescue and dog aggressive.

I've been mulling it over since then, as to who was 'in the wrong' so to speak. Having a dog aggressive dog off lead in a popular dog walking field does seem a bit silly, but then he did tuck himself away off the main path and the dog was fine until the Pointer started approaching them. Phone Guy was definitely a moron, he should have stopped, recalled his dog and gone around once it became obvious there was going to be an issue, not continue past almost oblivious.

I had enough braincells to understand that Bench Guy was off to the side for a reason and give him space, I wonder if Phone Guy would have done the same if he weren't on his phone and actually paying attention to his dog?
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Both were at fault. Phone Guy should be on the ball and have his dog under control, not approaching other dogs. Regarding the Staffie cross, a dog that's aggressive should be kept on lead and muzzled at all times, no ifs or buts. It's irrelevant that he was out of the way, he was in a public area. Dogs run up to dogs that are on lead all the time, sometimes you have to pass in close proximity, and leads can be dropped etc so a muzzle is necessary too. He was very irresponsible to have a dog like that in a position to attack and injure or even kill other dogs. People like him make me really angry. I've had one of my dogs and my mum's dog attacked by Staffies, mine needed stitches. My mum's would have been injured had he not been small enough to pick up. The dog was still jumping up trying to bite him, till its owner sauntered over after I yelled at him to get it. Both incidents were terrifying, and have ruined dog walking for me. I only do road walks now, I'm too scared to walk where there are loose dogs, and my onlead dog can now be reactive when dogs run up. That's the effect people like him have on other people and dogs, it's not just the injury and trauma at the time, though that's awful enough.

I had one that was unpredictable with other dogs, and he was always on lead and muzzled, I'd never take any chances. Even though I always kept well away from other dogs when walking him, as we know most people have little control of their dogs, and think it's fine for them to run up to others. It used to drive me mad when I was obviously having a problem with my (large) dog, and owners of said dogs did nothing to remove them, grrr!
 
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I fairly recently bought a flexi lead (tape one) to use when I’m away from home and there are likely to be deer/hares etc. My young bitch has good recall in most instances but will still occasionally take off if said wildlife jumps up in front of her nose. I also have a long line for the same purpose but I’ve found the flexi lead really handy instead of reeling a long line in and out.
It’s definitely the people that use them and not the leads themselves that can cause an issue.
 
Completely Utterly Blooming Oblivious Phone Guy today. Pointer all over the field that's supposed to be leads on for birds this time of year. We stopped well away to give time for owner to even be aware we were there and try to plan our route round them. Absolutely nothing from owner so opted to go as wide as physically possible from the dog. Obviously pointer came straight over and either 'smiled' or curled it's lips or silently growled on nearing, I'm not sure which and I was so glad OH was there to give space for me to move Ivy on. Owner still oblivious. I should have shouted to call his dog but we were too busy keeping it away. I hate when they circle around and won't quit. Most dogs seem to stop in their tracks, think about it then bog of back to their owner but we've had a few really persistent ones recently.
 
Ad on gumtree for a 10(!!!) year old golden lab, being gotten rid of as they don’t have time to walk him with the new baby(!), so he’s being sold on for £50. Was tempted to message asking if they’d get rid of the child as easily, if it turned 10 and another baby came along. Absolutely ghastly. If it hadn’t stated he was bad with cats, he’d already be here on our sofa.
 
fiwen30 said:
Controversial(?) opinion, but I think extendable leads should be banned. I’ve never seen or heard of a reasonable argument for their use, which wouldn’t be solved by the use of a long line instead.

Far too often they’re used dangerously, incorrectly, and at a risk to others. Attached to collars instead of harnesses, head collars or chain collars instead of harnesses, used loose on dogs with no recall and so no way to reel the dog back in, used loose and so no way to control a lunging dog, they’re a trip and tangle hazard for people and dogs alike, not to mention the awful stories of dogs stepping off pavements and being hit by cars. There’s absolutely no difference between a dog being on an extendable lead, and being off-lead. So if they need/are being put in an extendable, then it should be a long line instead, to maintain some modicum of control.
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I would love to see these vile things banned too. Thye cause serious injuries when they tangle around the les of dogs and humans - and during 1 horrible incident a horse...Dogs getting hit by cars because of thick stupid people using them next to a road...
 
Stupid person this morning - walking in a park (not my usual haunt but need to get springer working around distractions and strange dogs) 2 fat little pugs come rushing over, I sit up the springer, he's not at all nasty but gets very very excited by strange dogs, I call over please call your dogs back - idiots reply why?? I say because my dog is in training and I don't want him leapt all over - they reply he should be muzzled then WTF????? So I said get your dog on a lead, why says the gobby husband, beause you have just demonstrated beautifully that you have ZERO recall, then I turned and walked off springer being very good and ignoring irritating mutts, bloke had to come running up and grab them he was yelling at me to stop and wait, I was fed up by that point so just kept walking!!!!
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
Completely Utterly Blooming Oblivious Phone Guy today. Pointer all over the field that's supposed to be leads on for birds this time of year. We stopped well away to give time for owner to even be aware we were there and try to plan our route round them. Absolutely nothing from owner so opted to go as wide as physically possible from the dog. Obviously pointer came straight over and either 'smiled' or curled it's lips or silently growled on nearing, I'm not sure which and I was so glad OH was there to give space for me to move Ivy on. Owner still oblivious. I should have shouted to call his dog but we were too busy keeping it away. I hate when they circle around and won't quit. Most dogs seem to stop in their tracks, think about it then bog of back to their owner but we've had a few really persistent ones recently.
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I carry a pop bottle filled half full with gravel - shake it or chuck it at annoying dogs - works a treat for me!
 
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