Is everyone a photographer now!?

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LegOn

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There is nothing I love more than coming home from a show with a lovely pro photo of your day out - I'm lucky the husband is a good shot with camera but its still its nice to get a pro shot!

And I follow alot of photographers on Facebook because I like seeing nice photos of horses out competing! Its just lately I'm starting to see more and more 'pro' photographers posting blurry, over exposed, badly composed photos and asking for money! A good camera does not a professional photographer make:p:rolleyes:

So I was even more disappointed at a show I was at where the photographers are known for good photos and all the photos in my class were terrible! And even worse, no photos of the rosettes with those placed! I was a bit surprised cause it seems like cause it was a larger show they just had people pointing with cameras & there was very few good shoots... wasnt just my class aswell, as I had a good look through a few classes!

Such a pity - dont think people respect or recognise what a skill it is to get a good ridden action shot!!
 
LegOn said:
Such a pity - dont think people respect or recognise what a skill it is to get a good ridden action shot!!
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totally agree, there's a pro at one venue I got to from time to time who takes zillions of pictures all just at the wrong moment. Horse on the downbeat of a stride, or a foot half off the ground, or just after a change... so many opportunities to take a good shot and yet so many that are just slightly *wrong*. I'd buy at least one each time if they were timed better, I'm always on my tod so pro pics are the only ridden snaps I get really.
 
milliepops said:
totally agree, there's a pro at one venue I got to from time to time who takes zillions of pictures all just at the wrong moment. Horse on the downbeat of a stride, or a foot half off the ground, or just after a change... so many opportunities to take a good shot and yet so many that are just slightly *wrong*. I'd buy at least one each time if they were timed better, I'm always on my tod so pro pics are the only ridden snaps I get really.
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Oh its so frustrating! And also - I wish they would edit themselves - if you wouldnt want that photo of yourself, why would anyone else! I agree, I will always spend the money if the photos are good! I think it helps when the photographers are riders themselves but dont go to shoot a horse show if you dont know what constitutes a good ridden shot. Fair enough if you are trying to get experience but there are plenty of resources online to show what is the most perfect moment of a ridden or jumping shot!
 
I was really pleased to have a good local tog at one of the last shows I did with Millie, I bought the disk with them all on because they were all so nice and I was struggling to pick a few. Wouldn't do that every time, but it's so rare to be in the position where you have loads to choose from instead of being desperate to find one nice one :p
 
I always buy good pro photos when available, and actively look for venues with photographers. If I'm spending all that money and time, I at least want a decent pic ;)
 
There is one photographer up here who has the monopoly on the competition circuit. Has done for the best part of 8 years. I have bought 2 pictures off of them in total out of hundreds of events. They mostly employ cheap 17yo wannabe photographers for a season and charge the earth for the pictures. My step dad takes better shots by chance!

There is nothing more disappointing than doing well at a competition, eagerly awaiting the pictures to go online only to find that there isn't one single one worth buying.
 
I agree OP.
At the last stressage comp I was at, the 'pro tog' had many badly taken photos on her site loaded 3 days later. Of the 18 (yes, 18 photos from the 1 test!) of me on B Fuzzy, there was not 1 that I would have purchased. All were taken from between C and K from the corner, all at v odd angle and dire! Apparently she has been moaning to the organisers that it wasn't worth her going as had little take up from competitors....
A friend brought along her keen as mustard 10 yr old son , who rapid fired about 30 photos of us on a half decent 15 yr old Leica, a good third were actually better than the tog!
 
I trained my mother to point and click with a reasonable camera, and bribe her with nice coffee and cake to come with me. Sometimes they're better than the pro's, or better than the absence of a pro, sometimes not - but they're free at least! I see so many appalling "pro" photos. One chap literally waited 10 weeks to upload his mediocre photos :rolleyes:
 
but the reason you dont get many pro show photographers now is because it didnt pay enough to make it worthwhile and then people steal images on top of that. I can't really be bothered to have the same conversation about this I've been having for the last 10 years but afraid equestrians mostly only have themselves to blame for the lack of pro photographers. getting a few good images of your pal is a world removed from getting good photos of everyone, in sometimes challending conditions and keeping equipment up to date, running a decent website yadda yadda yadda.
 
I do kind of agree MoC, I think we've all seen the stolen shots used on the for sale adverts. I understand the need for a business to cover costs and make a profit and as such I'll never nick a photo.

But like MP I'm usually alone, and on the rare occasion I do compete I'd love to buy a photo where one, or both of us, wasn't gurning :p. Preferably with out eyes open.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
but the reason you dont get many pro show photographers now is because it didnt pay enough to make it worthwhile and then people steal images on top of that. I can't really be bothered to have the same conversation about this I've been having for the last 10 years but afraid equestrians mostly only have themselves to blame for the lack of pro photographers. getting a few good images of your pal is a world removed from getting good photos of everyone, in sometimes challending conditions and keeping equipment up to date, running a decent website yadda yadda yadda.
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Totally agree and I think these people who 'think' they are photographers and have a crappy website and are charging for their awful photos are just diluting the waters even more for actual photographers - I know its a very demanding job with alot of work for very little reward. Its just a shame that everyone who picks up a decent camera thinks they can call themselves a photographer - I was really shocked by one event I was looking at how terrible they were :rolleyes::oops: And events should make sure they only hire a pro rather than the amateurs who are trying to pass themselves off!
 
MotherOfChickens said:
but the reason you dont get many pro show photographers now is because it didnt pay enough to make it worthwhile and then people steal images on top of that. I can't really be bothered to have the same conversation about this I've been having for the last 10 years but afraid equestrians mostly only have themselves to blame for the lack of pro photographers. getting a few good images of your pal is a world removed from getting good photos of everyone, in sometimes challending conditions and keeping equipment up to date, running a decent website yadda yadda yadda.
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Absolutely - the theft of photos is a huge issue. It seems totally "acceptable" in many areas of the horse world, and it really shouldn't be seen as such. Being a good photographer involves skill and comes with significant overheads - thus if you want a good image, you should be prepared to pay for it.

Personally, I've bought loads of photos over the years, and would've bought more at events where the 'tog wasn't worth it - including in addition to my own amateur supply. But I do understand why we're in the situation we are...


I sometimes take photos at competitions - provided there's no pro in attendance - and bloody hell are people entitled though... I had a full blown argument with someone who insisted I had taken photos of her horse at an event and not uploaded them. I wasn't even on site at that point in the day - I was picking my own horse up. I was giving photos away for free, at an event where there was no other tog present. You'd think people might appreciate it, but no :rolleyes:
 
I don't very often buy photos due to the cost but there is one photographer who gets the most amazing photos and I had to buy! Similarly the photographer at Royal Windsor got the most amazing photos so again bought two (eek!). However we were at dressage last weekend and the angle of all the photos was very weird - possiibly because the photographer was paranoid about frightening people's horses? We bought OH a good camera as he quite likes photography anyway and I bought him an equestrian photography course on the basis that if he is taking the photos he can't complaint about more horse photos in the house.
 
This subject has been discussed at great, great, really great length in photography magazines and on websites and forums for years.

It really started with digital photography, which meant that variable costs were reduced to zero, and only the fixed cost of buying the gear and turning up has any influence. In the days of film photography, a single shot had a cost: you had to think about composition, perspective, depth of field, and in the days before TTL metering and auto-exposure and before autofocus, you needed to deal with those as well... meaning that you really needed to master the technical details of photography as well as the aesthetic details, in order to get good pictures consistently, and be able to make a living.

But along came digital photography and here we are, with self-described photographers who don't know their f stop from their arsehole or their depth of field from their tits, thinking that taking fifteen shots in quick succession is going to give at least one saleable picture...
 
I went to a sponsored ride with a friend a couple of years ago. We were one of the first to arrive at the venue. I was surprised to find, in the photos available online afterwards, one of me tacking up, one of the boys both on the lorry, and one of the lorry itself, looking resplendent against a leafy backdrop.

The ridden photo was an absolute shocker.
 
Some venues round here still have professional photographers that take great photos and they all do low res pictures for social media so I always buy a few.

However I have seen some shockers too. There were some posted up of a hunter trial where the photographer had positioned themselves to highlight a portaloo just behind the jump. It would have so easy to put themselves in a different position so it wasn't in shot. Another venue who usually use a professional firm, had someone different, one time. Clearly just someone who fancied themselves as a photographer. When the shots came out, there was no website, no proper organising photos into classes etc but just put up randomly on facebook. No pricelist, just a comment to pm if you wanted to know how much.
 
scats said:
I used to love the days of getting a little ‘proof’ photo in the post a week later.
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Yep I have a load of them too.
The photographer at (little) gatcombe horse trials used to send full size prints in the post and you either posted them back or sent a cheque. They were usually good shots so I bought them. Imagine anyone doing that now! 🤪
 
We must be very lucky in our area as we have some really great pro photographers - they often get a shot that makes our test look better than it was! I will make sure I keep supporting them. I do get pissed off when I see friends just taking the proofs off the website (with the watermarks on) and posting them on fb though.
 
I see a lot of teenagers (I know this because they usually comment that they can’t drive and need transport) offering “photo shoots” for you and your horse on Facebook with some dreadful shots as adverts - people and horses with telegraph poles and trees growing out of their heads, random people in the background etc.
 
tatty_v said:
We must be very lucky in our area as we have some really great pro photographers - they often get a shot that makes our test look better than it was! I will make sure I keep supporting them. I do get pissed off when I see friends just taking the proofs off the website (with the watermarks on) and posting them on fb though.
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If there are good pics, I generally buy one, but haven't been able to recently. It drives me nuts when I see screen shotted marked photos on faceache etc.
In the bike racing scene we are very lucky that there are decent togs taking great shots still. DH has just brought 3 cracking photos from the weekend :)
 
When I venture out and do the local winter Le Trec league there is always a fantastic photographer there along with an assistant so they get action shots from two angles. The photos he gets are absolutely amazing and I always buy the full set on DVD (£25). But I've never seen him at any of the local shows or dressage competitions sadly - he seems to prefer Le Trec and endurance competitions.
 
TotalMadgeness said:
When I venture out and do the local winter Le Trec league there is always a fantastic photographer there along with an assistant so they get action shots from two angles. The photos he gets are absolutely amazing and I always buy the full set on DVD (£25). But I've never seen him at any of the local shows or dressage competitions sadly - he seems to prefer Le Trec and endurance competitions.
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ime horses and riders tend to be happier at endurance and trec competitions ;)
 
On the flip side...

I bought two 10 X 12 photos from an event pro, well known, lovely shots. The actual fence had sentimental value to me, so I was delighted when the proofs came through. They were perfect, golden sunny day, blue sky... and me, doing what was sentimentally very important.

When the shots came they were dull in colour, the sky was no longer blue. I was disappointed but decided that as the shots were so important to me that I would buy a huge poster picture, over £100, and sent a letter with it, with the original proof, saying that I would prefer the XL print to be the same golden colour with blue sky, as it was a sentimental shot. No complaint about the two (not cheap) dull ones that I had already paid for, just more business with a (simple I thought) request.

Nothing.

Cheque not cashed.

So I presumed the photographer had not received the order, and rang the phone number with the proof number and means to pay over the phone. I tried to explain that the proof was what I wanted but was stonewalled. No photo.

The same pro was at loads of events, and I never did get another photo from them, despite the fact that I would have bought one at every single event. I still miss the prospective photos, as I was, at the time, doing stuff I had dreamed of, in fact stuff I never dreamed I would do.

I tried to call a few times to see if I could purchase photos, but was stonewalled every time.

All this because I asked for a poster print to be like the proof.

A bit later a digital photographer started doing some events so I did get some photos. Even better, once I had bought a 10 X 12 print I was allowed to scan and use as I wished. They treated me like a valued customer.

As far as photographers at events go then, I prefer when more than one is present. I will buy the best photo, from the firm who will actually sell me one! Even one at over £100.

I have also reported adverts with stolen photos, to the photographer. I have had many thanks as then the advertiser has had to purchase the image.

I still wonder what on earth I did to offend that first photographer. It was a well respected photographer and I would still purchase the images, even now, 15 years later! They would mean so much to me. I now can't do the stuff that I could then. It would be great to have a memento.
 
I am a sucker for a pro photo as I usually compete on my own so no chance of anything else! There are some amazing equestrian photographers out there - there are a couple in particular in my area who I know will nail it every time and I am always spoiled for choice looking at photos to buy from them. But they are hugely experienced, have a great eye for composition and also lightly edit their photos before they go online...which is usually the same day. Equally, there are others where you are expected to pay a high price for even a download and there isn't a decent picture in the bunch (dodgy angles, poor backgrounds/composition, poor quality prints) and these are the same people who are presumably wondering why they aren't selling many photos. I bought some downloads a couple of weeks ago and contacted them saying I would love to also buy a print of one if they could crop it more closely.... no reply!
 
The riding club in this area who hold six events/year make a big point of advertising that they have a photographer in attendance. Unfortunately the (very young) girl just takes hundreds of mostly bad shots, some are so bad that I can't imagine the competitors are entirely happy that they exist on the internet for all to see. I appreciate that the girl is enthusiastic, but it is a shame that the RC doesn't hire a proper/qualified/professional tog who can frame shots, focus and knows what point of the stride to capture.

On the other hand, I have a lot of sympathy for the professionals who have to try to compete against the (often) cheaper amateurs, and put up with some horse people refusing to pay a fair cost for their work. I think digital cameras have meant that a lot of people don't understand that good photography is still a skill, and that the camera doesn't do all the work!

As someone else who is always on their own I would really love a good (or even OK) photo, but in the last three year have only purchased from one event (although a lot of venues round here don't have a photographer).
 
I think we're fairly lucky in our area as there are three or four good photographers who charge pretty reasonable prices. I know one can't make it work as a career though so has had to get a 'proper' job and the photos can take a while to go up on his website as a result. Another does weddings, beach ride photo shoots and has also branched out into taking 'for sale' photos - head shots, confo shots and action. It's certainly not the easy money some (both customers and 'photographers') think it is.
 
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