muff747
Well-Known Member
Well again it comes down to condoning the exploitation of dumb animals for the sake of making money
Is H&H condoning this? This is not a racehorse!
- Thread starter muff747
- Start date
- Status
Well again it comes down to condoning the exploitation of dumb animals for the sake of making money
Billabongchick
Well-Known Member
I think a huge amount depends on temperament and what it is suitable for as a final 'job'. My ex's parents bred a NF and nobody had taken much interest in him. One afternoon he said why not take the pony out for a hack round the woods? I think the pony was 4. Anyway I thought it was weird that he said we should walk him on foot over the road before he legged me up on the track. Pony was fine if a little slow with aids. It was only when I got off that my ex told me the pony had literally had the kids sat on him once or twice and never broken but he hadn't wanted me to be nervous!!
This pony never put a foot wrong and was just a laid back chappy so I think they are all different and what some will do others won't. If this ad/pony is aimed at family market and supervised by adults but ridden/sat on by kids it is not necessarily going to ruin it by starting it a bit earlier than might be the norm.
If I had a slow growing type then I agree, starting them later is better. For the record I have a 4 yo ex racer; I don't really agree with her being raced so young as she is still growing hence she has a very easy life with us but then she is a cracker as has been there and seen things that make her more unflappable than say a 4 year old left in a field to mature and better behaved than many more 'mature' horses! So I guess it works both ways and what works for some isn't the best for others!
This pony never put a foot wrong and was just a laid back chappy so I think they are all different and what some will do others won't. If this ad/pony is aimed at family market and supervised by adults but ridden/sat on by kids it is not necessarily going to ruin it by starting it a bit earlier than might be the norm.
If I had a slow growing type then I agree, starting them later is better. For the record I have a 4 yo ex racer; I don't really agree with her being raced so young as she is still growing hence she has a very easy life with us but then she is a cracker as has been there and seen things that make her more unflappable than say a 4 year old left in a field to mature and better behaved than many more 'mature' horses! So I guess it works both ways and what works for some isn't the best for others!
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
Yes many probably are. There are 'trainers' around every corner here ... *sigh*
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Well again it comes down to condoning the exploitation of dumb animals for the sake of making money
That's called "real life". We would not have this forum to use for free unless H&H got advertising revenues from it. So simply by being here, you are condoning it. Are you going to log off and never post or even browse again, because withdrawing yourself from being advertised to is the only logical thing to do?
justabob
Well-Known Member
Well again it comes down to condoning the exploitation of dumb animals for the sake of making money
That is your rather extreme opinion.
amandap
Well-Known Member
I had a feeling it might be. It seems common in UK too. It's something I don't understand myself, I would want to 'do' my own horse so we are on the same wave length and I am in control of what happens. Plus he/she is at home, knows me, so backing etc. is just an extension of what we've already done.
I may well have to do some more learning myself and have help but I still would resist sending away. That's me though.
Holly Hocks
Well-Known Member
Agree with both the above posts.
OP, whilst I understand your concerns and agree that the pony appears too young, would you not be better voicing your concerns to the person who has placed the advert? The e-mail address and phone number are on the ad.
muff747
Well-Known Member
Just because it's real life doesn't make it right. I have a right to express my opinion on this forum, and when I saw that ad next to the threads, I was a little shocked that H&H would allow any adverts without some regulation. I'm sure they must have an editor that monitors the content of them.
I do object to you saying by posting on here I am condoning it, I most definitely am not. There have been comparisons with another online advertising site where there are worse examples and their reputation is somewhat dubious, I wouldn't have thought H&H would want to have that sort of reputation.
It is obviously not extreme as there are other posters on here that have agreed with my views.
And I must say your suggestion that I should withdraw and never post is ludicrous cpt
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Well again it comes down to condoning the exploitation of dumb animals for the sake of making money
Arguably, mankind's whole relationship with horses is just that and always has been. Horses didn't ask to be ridden, pull carriages or ploughs, used in warfare or eaten. But all those things were/are done, and yes it's exploitation. We exploit their strength and nature for our own pleasure or profit.
Which type of exploitation is beyond the pale is just a matter of opinion.
I think the horse looks young for what they say it's done, but it's not an ad I'd pick out to be shocked at and I don't think there are grounds for H&H to refuse to print it.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I've backed all my unbroken horses bar one AmandaP. He was too sharp for me - he was so reactive that he was making me nervous and of course that was making him nervous. I had sat on him a few times, and come off once, and I took the decision that it would be better for him to be backed by someone totally confident. He was there less than two weeks and although the pro described him as "wired", we got on just great after that. I've backed two others since, it was just his particular temperament, and the fact that the horse I did before him was going blind (undiagnosed) and had been rodeo bucking me into orbit and had pretty much broken my nerve.
I'm guessing you are a lot younger than me. When I was younger I would never have needed to send a horse away and would have written what you have written, but as you get older you see more danger everywhere.
Purple18
Well-Known Member
It's not good but alot worse things are happening it's doesn't make it right but if something happened to every horse that was broken in early there wouldn't be racehorses i once saw an advert for a 16 month colt being ridden horrible but that's not alot that can be done I'm pretty sure at the time it was flagged up to world horse weflare and they coudln't do anything.
chestnuttyy
Well-Known Member
Seriously there are much worse things going on in the equestrian world than a horse being backed at 2. Yes rising 3 is a bit young to have done what the advert claims this pony has done but in the grand scheme of things it seems to have been well cared for, which is a much better situation than many horses are finding themselves in atm
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Just because it's real life doesn't make it right. I have a right to express my opinion on this forum, and when I saw that ad next to the threads, I was a little shocked that H&H would allow any adverts without some regulation. I'm sure they must have an editor that monitors the content of them.
I do object to you saying by posting on here I am condoning it, I most definitely am not. There have been comparisons with another online advertising site where there are worse examples and their reputation is somewhat dubious, I wouldn't have thought H&H would want to have that sort of reputation.
It is obviously not extreme as there are other posters on here that have agreed with my views.
And I must say your suggestion that I should withdraw and never post is ludicrous cpt
Horse and Hound do not run this board as a charity or a gift. They run it because it sells things from adverts for which they get revenues and because they are paid on "click-through" to other sites from ads on this site. Their advertising revenues are directly related to the number of posters they can show potential advertisers are online. You are one of them.
By being here, you make yourself available to be advertised to, and you are complicit in the revenues being made from the advertising on the site including the one to which you so object.
Have you even considered the exposure your thread has given to that advert, and the greatly increased likelihood that the pony will sell from it?
No, didn't think you had.
If you object to H&H making money from advertising things which are perfectly legal, then your only logical step is to prevent them earning money from you being here to see the adverts - ie to withdraw from the site.
Last edited:
muff747
Well-Known Member
Chestnuttyy - what has happened to yours????
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Arguably, mankind's whole relationship with horses is just that and always has been. Horses didn't ask to be ridden, pull carriages or ploughs, used in warfare or eaten. But all those things were/are done, and yes it's exploitation. We exploit their strength and nature for our own pleasure or profit.
Which type of exploitation is beyond the pale is just a matter of opinion.
I think the horse looks young for what they say it's done, but it's not an ad I'd pick out to be shocked at and I don't think there are grounds for H&H to refuse to print it.
This.
chestnuttyy
Well-Known Member
Nothing has happened to mine, he's a well cared for horse who's spoilt rotten.
I dont agree with backing horses that young, but when you look at the number of horses who are being neglected/ dumped/ slaughtered in this country then it sort of puts it into perspective.
I dont agree with backing horses that young, but when you look at the number of horses who are being neglected/ dumped/ slaughtered in this country then it sort of puts it into perspective.
Fii
Well-Known Member
And then there is the fact that not all advertisers tell the truth or maybe embellish the truth to get a sale 
Backed and ridden away....had tack slapped on and a small child stuck in the middle while being led around a field!
Broken to harness...had harness slapped on and led around a field!
ridden by a 12 year old and a 9 year old....Had children slapped on and led around a field!
Etc, etc, etc!
Backed and ridden away....had tack slapped on and a small child stuck in the middle while being led around a field!
Broken to harness...had harness slapped on and led around a field!
ridden by a 12 year old and a 9 year old....Had children slapped on and led around a field!
Etc, etc, etc!
muff747
Well-Known Member
No I'm not going to withdraw from the site, that sounds a little like you don't like my views so I should leave - and I am certainly not condoning the pony being broken in and shod at such a young age.
If I had not posted, that could have been seen to be condoning it because I did nothing to draw attention to the practice of ridiing and shoeing horses too early when their bones are still soft and growing. Quite a few of the posters agree with my views and hopefully some people who saw nothing wrong in the advert will have seen that not everyone agrees with the practice.
Also I would have thought that you being a hoof expert would know the damage that is most likely being done to those young hooves, and what that will more than likely lead to in it's later life?
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Also I would have thought that you being a hoof expert would know the damage that is most likely being done to those young hooves, and what that will more than likely lead to in it's later life?
I don't agree with shoeing it, but this is, I think, the first time you have taken issue with the shoes specifically? And if you have a ten year old with shoes on and don't event above Novice BE, I quite likely wouldn't agree that you need shoes on that either.
My own opinion is that you and others are making an awful fuss about a picture that I can see nothing wrong with. A child is sat on a young unmuscled pony. So what? The pony does not, to me, look ill treated or abused in any way. For all we know it loves the attention. And while I wouldn't myself work a horse that young, I do think ponies are inherently stronger and I doubt very much if the slightest harm has come to it.
What has been done with the pony is not within a hundred miles of being illegal, and your call for HHO to refuse to run the ad is, to my mind, a complete over-reaction. And impossible for them to implement and continue to run their business.
Please be clear I am not telling you not to post. I am telling you that it is the only logical course of action given your concern about the adverts that HHO is running. I am unconcerned whether you continue on the forum or not.
Last edited:
justabob
Well-Known Member
Please withdraw muff, please do. Go and look elsewhere to be offended as there are lots of sites that will make your eyes bleed.
amandap
Well-Known Member
LOL! I don't think so. I remember Muffin the mule. I wont be backing any horses at my age or level of crumbly-ness. I wont be taking on anymore full stop. I'm just talking around the subject and saying my views and thoughts. Haven't you learned to ignore my ramblings yet?
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
Muff747 I'm rubbish at posting photos but bear with me. I actually do agree with you in that the pony in the advert looks rather immature. However you have shown your disdain for those who choose to back some horses at 3 years old so I wonder if you'd be interested in playing a little game with two of my horses. Which, if any, both or neither, would you deem ready to ride?
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
God you're ANCIENT
I thought it was an interesting discussion - what might make someone send a horse away to be broken
So is what you are saying that you would never send one away, and now you don't feel able to do it yourself, you simply won't buy an unbroken horse?
I'd have missed a brilliant hunter if I'd gone that route, yet he was really easy to back
Last edited:
muff747
Well-Known Member
No, I'm not going to do that any more than you would because you don't like my posts
I have mentioned the shoeing many times in my posts cpt, that's one of the main objections I have to this and any other ad or any person who shoes or rides a pony or horse at an age when it's bones and feet are still immature, soft and growing. You have vented your annoyances many times on here too.
but (Yawns) I need my beauty sleep now so I'll bid you all goodnight
Oh sorry Springfeather, I'll have to come back to you tomorrow, only just seen your pics when I last posted. Night night
Last edited:
justabob
Well-Known Member
No, I'm not going to do that any more than you would because you don't like my posts
I have mentioned the shoeing many times in my posts cpt, that's one of the main objections I have to this and any other ad or any person who shoes or rides a pony or horse at an age when it's bones and feet are still immature, soft and growing. You have vented your annoyances many times on here too.
but (Yawns) I need my beauty sleep now so I'll bid you all goodnight
Nite muff.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
but (Yawns) I need my beauty sleep now so I'll bid you all goodnight
Is it because you don't want to play my game?
Oh just saw your edited reply
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
So you have, I didn't read everything you wrote. Apologies.
I agree it shouldn't be shod, but I don't think most ponies should be shod. I wouldn't single this one out particularly.
If you are talking about its bones being immature, are you aware that there is evidence that stressing bones at a young age increases their strength?
And that the spine/neck growth plates don't seal until between five and a half and eight, so how long are you going to wait before you work a horse?
Last edited:
amandap
Well-Known Member
I wont be buying any more horses full stop. I've enough oldies and am at my limits financially and physically.God you're ANCIENT
I thought it was an interesting discussion - what might make someone send a horse away to be broken
So is what you are saying that you would never send one away, and now you don't feel able to do it yourself, you simply won't buy an unbroken horse?
I'd have missed a brilliant hunter if I'd gone that route, yet he was really easy to back
I need to think about their futures...Speaking hypothetically I can't say I would never send one away but I would need 100% confidence in the trainer they went to and know we were on the same wavelength. I would prefer to have someone help me at home. I just think it's a less stressful way for the horse. Going somewhere new and learning about new things is a lot to do in one go for a youngster. I expect most think I'm soft but why add stress when it isn't necessary?
ps. Yes, I am almost an ancient monument... like you!
Last edited:
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I wont be buying any more horses full stop. I've enough oldies and am at my limits financially and physically.
Speaking hypothetically I can't say I would never send one away but I would need 100% confidence in the trainer they went to and know we were on the same wavelength. I would prefer to have someone help me at home. I just think it's a less stressful way for the horse. Going somewhere new and learning about new things is a lot to do in one go for a youngster. I expect most think I'm soft but why add stress when it isn't necessary?
I completely agree with you. It's just that with the one horse I sent away it was me causing the stress
There are also some very sharp animals (he was one) which are easier to back if they are made uncertain by being away from home. I'm sure it's not the nicest way to do it, but equally I think I'd have ruined mine if I hadn't admitted that I didn't have the guts to get on him with the total confidence that you need with a youngster.
Careful! Muffin the mule was before my time
I came in at Andy Pandy, Noggin the Nog and The Woodentops, but before the Clangers. Did you get the Pingwings, not many people did, it was only shown in the South East?
Last edited:
amandap
Well-Known Member
One of my very earliest memories along with Picture book, Tales of the river bank... better not go on.Careful! Muffin the mule was before my time
Noggin the Nog was my all time favourite.
Oh no, never heard of the Pingwings.
- Status