Is having a horse in the box on rubber matting without bedding cruel?

I use rubber mats, nice thick ones with the little legs. I also have a bank of shavings round the outside of my stable, and sweep a layer of shavings across the mats for urine absorption when my horse is stabled overnight. Having gone from a deep litter shavings bed to mats and shavings, I haven't noticed his rugs any damper or dirtier, and the stables being in a big, airy agricultural barn means I've never noticed any smell or dampness in the air either. Personally, I think the mats are great as I save money on bedding and go through a lot less, plus my stable is a lot cleaner and I can lift the mats and disinfect regularly, compared to the previous deep litter system. I think this system is better for my horse's feet, too, as he isnt standing in deep litter shavings!!
 
horserider said:
Bad practice.

Agree with others;

Stinking horse, rugs, stable.

Horse breathing in stench of urine/droppings and standing in it for hours.

Hay contaminated by filthy floor and horse unable to lie down unless accepts lying in a cold wet mess.

Horse better off out in the paddock.
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Agree - not necessarily cruel but not great. The stench is horrible and can't be good for the horses lungs. My friend just has mats and says no point putting shavings down as it all has to get removed in the morning as horse just churns it in. Horses wees on bare mats and lies down too so he isn't bothered. But the stable is an inch thick in poo and wee in the morning across the whole stable, not nice. Everything just reeks and can't be good for their feet.

Then again if the other option is standing in thick mud constantly what's better?
 
I have mats with bedding on top. I couldn't not have bedding as my mare can wee for england!

I would rather have her live out 24/7 but not feasible in winter as so muddy & wet
 
Happy horse:
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Beaulazing.jpg


Equally happy, sparko on a rock hard ground:
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Saying that, although he loves lying in his own poo, I'd never ever leave him no bedding as he won't pee except on bedding or in the field and it's easier to keep him clean with lots of bedding. The least smelly (and cheapest) so far has been pellets. I'd never go back to purely straw as he and I both stank!
 
I have one that's currently on thick rubber mats only, we have had holes drilled (his stable is on a slope) and every last bit of wee drains away.

He lays down and wee's the same as any other horse and his rugs etc are much less p***y than any of the other horses on the yard who are on mats with various depths and types of bedding.

He's unbelievably wet and YO and I tried literally everything on the market before going for this option, however I wouldn't opt for this had we not been able to install the drainage system we have.
 
Not cruel but would prefer a layer of bedding, mine lives out anyway, I dread to go back to poo and wee stains although i do occasionally wish I had stables when it is wet and windy and horrid, so they can look all cosy like CT's cutie!
 
I have two horses stabled at the moment on mats, with straw in their wet corners, in stables that have ok not brilliant drainage.
Horse 1, neat pooh and pee in her corner, mats dry, pushes loads of the straw back into corner, so know on deep bed (that is going to have to happen soon as she sheds her unexpected load) its not going to be a nice deep bed.
Horse 2, next door, mainly wees in her corner, but gets fidgity when she is in long periods (which thanks to this weather.....)
He bed is wet and dirty as she walks it round. Tried adding more bedding, its just waste. I look forward to the land drying and her being out 24/7 again, which is what she wants (Or coming in for afternoon for rest and shade...)

I do need to get better mats, as the ones I have are old, and as they were a trial, cheap.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, its very easy to critizise. There is no total right or wrong, but different people, different situations, circumstances etc.
If the horse pees a lot, wood fiber pellets or aubiose are great at absorbing smell. I wouldnt personally overnight without bedding, but I would probably be happy for them to stand in for a couple of hours, even on concrete, unless I thought they were going to want to lay down.
 
marmalade76 said:
I echo what's been said before, I wouldn't leave a horse on mats without at least a thin layer of bedding. Without the wet will be soaked up by the rugs, your rugs will stink, your horse will stink and in fact the whole yard will stink (I once tried a horse on a yard where no bedding was used, the whole place stunk) but I wouldn't go so as to say it was cruel. Some horse will not want to wee on it, at least in a fields they can choose where they wee and I know that mine have a 'loo' area where they don't graze so there is more grass cover.

I've had mine stabled on mats and still had a full bed down. A full bed stays cleaner, the wet stays underneath leaving the top clean.
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I would not leave a horse with no bedding even with rubber mats, for many years matting or no matting mine have had a proper bed. However in this last week I have made some changes to this and been really impressed. Ben consistently poos in one spot and wees in another, this was where his bed was, so I moved his bed to the other side of the stable and it has gone from five inches thick to about 2 so he will lie down - without bedding he wont lie down i then sprinkle a forkful of pellets where he wees and poos, this is just enough to soak up the wee, everyday this week his bed has been completely muck free and dry! I wish I'd done it years ago, so now, yes I use minimal bedding but I couldn't ever bring myself to do away with it completely. In my opinion yes, in some form it is cruel, certainly for Ben. He is happy in his stable and loves very much to lie down and have a snooze, he simply won't do this without some form of bedding, so to do away with bedding would be unfair as it would stop him performing his natural behaviour in the stable, by natural I know it is not natural to stable, what I mean is what is normal/natural for him in that environment.
 
Janah said:
Possibly not cruel, but not good husbandery for sure.
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oh dear, I have kept mine like this for over 20 years. There are a lot of misguided comments on here about matting. I haven't read them all.

I use fieldguard mats. Not the cheapest but as they have been down 20 years they have proved their worth.
No smell whatsoever. Absolutely none. Before that I had deep littered stables, smell was dreadful.
No smell because the mats were correctly laid on well draining concrete floors leading to sealed drains. The pee goes through the gaps in the mat. Bed stays dry.

I sprinkle fine shavings over the mats to the extent you would sprinkle icing sugar over a cake. Very tiny amount not to keep the mats clean but to make the droppings easier to clean up.

Considerable improvement in arthritic horses. They have loved the comfort of the mats.

As the beds are dry the rugs don't get any more mucky than in a bedded stable. The horses lie down in absolutely the same way as in a bedded stable. The horses have no problems with the concept of mats. It is owners that want nice cosy deep beds.
As for thrush. :D I have 10 barefoot horses on matted stables all in at night. I don't have thrush. I also don't go through the endless performance that some do of scrubbing and treating feet. I have no need. The feet are kept dry on the mats.

The right sort of mats, correctly laid and they are brilliant. The wrong sort badly laid then probably a mess.
 
I would love mats but I didn't find the deep litter smelt until it was cleared. Horses don't need deep luxurious beds, my lot lie in all sorts of 'uncomfortable' places in my yard despite having a deep gravel bed for them outside. I've seen them lie on stones and even in a puddle. :D No capped hocks or skin lesions, I'm sure it's because they have plenty of space.
 
paddy555 said:
oh dear, I have kept mine like this for over 20 years. There are a lot of misguided comments on here about matting. I haven't read them all.

I use fieldguard mats. Not the cheapest but as they have been down 20 years they have proved their worth.
No smell whatsoever. Absolutely none. Before that I had deep littered stables, smell was dreadful.
No smell because the mats were correctly laid on well draining concrete floors leading to sealed drains. The pee goes through the gaps in the mat. Bed stays dry.

I sprinkle fine shavings over the mats to the extent you would sprinkle icing sugar over a cake. Very tiny amount not to keep the mats clean but to make the droppings easier to clean up.

Considerable improvement in arthritic horses. They have loved the comfort of the mats.

As the beds are dry the rugs don't get any more mucky than in a bedded stable. The horses lie down in absolutely the same way as in a bedded stable. The horses have no problems with the concept of mats. It is owners that want nice cosy deep beds.
As for thrush. :D I have 10 barefoot horses on matted stables all in at night. I don't have thrush. I also don't go through the endless performance that some do of scrubbing and treating feet. I have no need. The feet are kept dry on the mats.

The right sort of mats, correctly laid and they are brilliant. The wrong sort badly laid then probably a mess.
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I'm having trouble visualising your stable floors because I can't understand how your mats stay dry when urine and droppings hit the ground. Even if the urine drains straight away, the rubber remains wet for some time. The droppings make the floor dirty and slippery and horses tread in them.
I've tried sprinkling shavings on my Kraiburg Ken mats, which like yours are wonderful at draining but it didn't work. I've never seen this method work on any mats, the horse in the stable next to mine is kept this way and it definitely isn't nice.
How do your horses keep their feet clean? Mine are unshod and have a deep bed of fresh straw each night which is the only way they manage to keep their feet dry after a day in the field.
While all horses are different, and yes, they do lie down in the field on hard ground -but, in the stable, they only lie down if the bed is deep and fresh. The horse next to us on bare mats, does not because there is nowhere dry to lie.
I'm curious, because obviously, I'd love the ease and cost saving of not using bedding, but I really don't see how it works without compromising care.
 
I don't have any stables but would like mats for half of my barn then I wouldn't have a bed tbh. It's an old milking parlour so well drained. They come and go as they wish so I expect that makes a big difference to the poo and pee factor compared to being in a stable all night for eg.
 
horserider said:
How do your horses keep their feet clean? Mine are unshod and have a deep bed of fresh straw each night which is the only way they manage to keep their feet dry after a day in the field.
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Mine come in from the field with their feet packed with mud. I don't clean them just leave the mud packed in them. That way they are packed with mud and not with dung.
 
paddy555 said:
oh dear, I have kept mine like this for over 20 years. ......... It is owners that want nice cosy deep beds.
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I don't believe this is true. I would believe you if you bed one quarter of your stables with a four inch deep bed and then come back to us and tell us where your horses choose to lie down.
 
And here is a picture of my horse asleep. She is in a 18' foaling box, with rubber mats all the way - yet she always chooses to sleep in this bit which has bed. In eight years I have never ever caught her asleep on the mats, always the bed.. (ps, this is a v shallow bed compared to usual for me!)



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Exactly Honey08!!!!

So, all you people who are insistent that mats are fine, that your horses like them, etc etc etc, just try laying a tiny four inch deep bed, and see where the horse sleeps.

Honey08 I used to bed the same way and got exactly the same result as you.
 
Mine sleep in all sorts of places even when there is a deep bed indoors. :) Now Sophie who is shut in a barn at night in winter does use her bed all the time when in there.
 
cptrayes said:
I don't believe this is true. I would believe you if you bed one quarter of your stables with a four inch deep bed and then come back to us and tell us where your horses choose to lie down.
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I did indeed try that as an experiment when I first went into the mats as I too was unconvinced. I was wrong. They showed no preference and happily chose the mats.
If they dislike them so much why are they perfectly happy to lie down on them so often? Sorry I think it is far too easy to bring human views into it as to what you, rather than they, regard as a decent bed.

I suspect that the horse lies down in the area of the stable that it prefers and in the direction that it choses rather than on which bit has shavings on it. If for example you put shavings at the back of the stable, which would be the logical thing to do and leave the front towards the door bare it will probably lay at the back as that is where it would lay anyway away from the door. I wonder if that is where the bay horse is lying.
 
paddy555 said:
I did indeed try that as an experiment when I first went into the mats as I too was unconvinced. I was wrong. They showed no preference and happily chose the mats.
If they dislike them so much why are they perfectly happy to lie down on them so often? Sorry I think it is far too easy to bring human views into it as to what you, rather than they, regard as a decent bed.

I suspect that the horse lies down in the area of the stable that it prefers and in the direction that it choses rather than on which bit has shavings on it. If for example you put shavings at the back of the stable, which would be the logical thing to do and leave the front towards the door bare it will probably lay at the back as that is where it would lay anyway away from the door. I wonder if that is where the bay horse is lying.
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Your experience differs from mine and from what I see in other horses. My friend got away with minimal beds with geldings, but when she changed her geldings for mares the mares refused to lie down until she gave them a decent bed.

My experience is that this is more normal that what you describe - desperate attempt to lie on whatever bed is available:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...J0XH7zPdf8L_rY-lum-XGL6lbgLIQZgm7J5z-ViH2lB4o
 
cptrayes said:
Your experience differs from mine and from what I see in other horses. My friend got away with minimal beds with geldings, but when she changed her geldings for mares the mares refused to lie down until she gave them a decent bed.

My experience is that this is more normal that what you describe - desperate attempt to lie on whatever bed is available:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...J0XH7zPdf8L_rY-lum-XGL6lbgLIQZgm7J5z-ViH2lB4o
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my mare is also perfectly happy to lie down as well. I think we will have to agree to differ. Fortunately it is only the opinion of my horses that really matters to me. :D

I really don't think my pictures show desperate horses nor anything cruel as suggested in this thread title. Desperate attempt is merely your own thoughts. Far more important than what they lie on to me is clean beds and lack of dust and smell.

The thing the I do think cruel having seen it many times before is either horses bedded with no matting and only 4 inches of bedding whereby they are soon down to the floor. Also horses whose beds are mucked out and left up during the day. When they are brought into the stables for short periods during the daytime they have nowhere to lie down.
 
My horse has been on box rest for 3 months due to a tendon injury. She is bedded on Aubiose on top of thick EVA mats (and FWIW it is very easy maintenance and there is no smell - except when you dig out the wet, of course).
Every day I remove her rug and she has a roll - but if I put in a new bale (which I do once a week) she will have a second roll. Now WHY would she do that if she was indifferent to the type of bedding provided - as some people have claimed?
 
d_morrow said:
My horse has been on box rest for 3 months due to a tendon injury. She is bedded on Aubiose on top of thick EVA mats (and FWIW it is very easy maintenance and there is no smell - except when you dig out the wet, of course).
Every day I remove her rug and she has a roll - but if I put in a new bale (which I do once a week) she will have a second roll. Now WHY would she do that if she was indifferent to the type of bedding provided - as some people have claimed?
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my haflinger who has free access to the stables in the daytime will come in and have a roll on the mats. There will be no bedding on them.
 
paddy555 said:
Sorry I think it is far too easy to bring human views into it as to what you, rather than they, regard as a decent bed.
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I disagree with this. My management is based on observation, if I wanted to humanise them, I'd probably put a TV in the stable.

Its an old myth that horses are not nesting animals etc etc. so have no need or want for a deep bed.
While they do not make beds/nests as some mammals do, given the choice, our herd would lie on the hay from a round bale in the field.
They aren't daft, bedding gives warmth, its more comfortable and a decent bed enables them to stay dry and prevent skin infections. They aren't oblivious to looking after their coats.
 
horserider said:
I disagree with this. My management is based on observation, if I wanted to humanise them, I'd probably put a TV in the stable.


They aren't daft, bedding gives warmth, its more comfortable and a decent bed enables them to stay dry and prevent skin infections. They aren't oblivious to looking after their coats.
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absolutely and those are the precise reasons I chose the fieldguard mats. Especially the comfort and warmth factor plus the draining of the urine.
When I first matted them I had a 28yr old. He had never been on mats before. He had a deep litter bed and the usual ageing, stiffness, arthritis etc. We spent a lot of time contemplating how much longer we should let him go on.
Not only did he take to the mats with no problems he improved and managed to go on for another 3 years. They provided far more comfort for him that his previous deep litter which we had thought the most comfortable bed we could make for him. We were suprised at the improvements. Now 20 years and quite a few old horses later we have seen this repeated several times.
I would point out that these are not the harsh, firm 6 x 4 mats. The ones we have are much more comfortable and provide good insulation.
I can vouch for that having spent many a night on them looking after various animals.
 
Paddy555 - I'm not saying that a horse would not roll on bare mats - just that the more comfortable the bed, the more they appreciate it. As Horserider says - they're not daft. :)
 
paddy555 said:
absolutely and those are the precise reasons I chose the fieldguard mats. Especially the comfort and warmth factor plus the draining of the urine.
...
I would point out that these are not the harsh, firm 6 x 4 mats. The ones we have are much more comfortable and provide good insulation.
I can vouch for that having spent many a night on them looking after various animals.
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I think this is what some of the people commenting on here don't understand, as they are judging on the basis of the normal rubber mats they have seen or used. I use the same mats as you, the Fieldguard M2 mats, which are held off the floor by little rubber legs. This means the mats are not a hard unyielding surface to lie on but quite squidgy like a firm mattress.
 
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