Is he being naughty or does he have a problem?

[xxMozlarxx]

I agree Welshie..and the suggestion that horses are rarely naughty...most ponies I know and lots of horses too will be naughty given the chance, my 16.2 big ID is the laziest cheekiest boy going given the option. It's a sensible process of elimination isn't it? I speak as someone who has had the vet out many times over the past few years to genuine problems, abcess, choke, lameness etc so I'm not slow to bring the vet in when needed.

 

[mandwhy]

People are often very quick to tell you to get professionals out on here but I do think in this case that maybe you should. At least you should check his sheath a bit - does it look erm, clogged? Are flies accumulating? I assume he would normally extend his Willy fully to wee? If he is not now there may be an infection, or if there is a lot of 'build up'. Yes it is pretty gross and I am generally of the mind to leave their bits alone but always check it looks cleanish and normal when it does come out!

The bean is a small hardened ball of smegma I think that basically sits in the opening of the penis (sometimes a bit inside the urethra) and obviously causes a blockage.

What you said about an adult riding him being different may mean it is just schooling trouble though. I'm sure you or YO will be able to tell if something seems wrong down there. Cystitis and kidney infections are not nice for anyone!

 

[Welshie Squisher]

Queenbee - I don't disagree that the OP needs help and advise, but a chat to their YO or an experienced friend is certainly in order first as is a chat to the owner if the pony is on loan. They may know the answer straight away.

My daughters coloured cob can be an utter arse in a school, if i posted a video of him on here I'd be told to get his back checked, vet, dentist, physio etc. He must be in pain to behave like this etc.
The reality is out of a sandschool he's forward, fun and still cheeky but cheeky as in fun way hey lets go gallop
His pain is mental, he hates schooling, it's boring to him and I look for any excuse not to school also and get a strop on but I don't need a doctor

The pony may turn out to need the vet, but i'm sure from what the OP has said that it's not so urgent they can't get an experienced person to take a look at the behaviour first to gain an opinion.
Hell we're all giving an opinion and we haven't even seen the pony

 

[MrsJ]

thank you everyone for their 'passionate' replies. The pony is on loan from our riding school and we have only had him on loan for 3 days. I have spoken with them regarding the issue (or rather they spoke to me and asked if I'd noticed him doing it) and they think its a case of him being a cheeky pony and using it as an aversion tactic.

It's their call as to whether they will get the vet out and look at him, but my guess is they'll monitor his behaviour more before doing so. I just wanted to get other peoples opinions on whether they had experienced the same.....

 

[AmyMay]

I'd be bankrupt if i got the vet everytime one of mine was naughty or refused to move forwards or napped.

It's easy for others to say get the vet to anything and everything, they're not paying the bill!

I absolutely agree. However, sometimes you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially if you are a novice owner, with a new horse/pony.

Also, in the OP the YO made specific mention of having observed the pony possibly having an issue:

I spoke to the YO about him and she had asked if we had noticed him having 'toilet' issues...i.e. standing for a long time needing a wee but not going. And yes we have!!

Testing the urine, will cost pennies (if any charge at all), and the OP can collect the sample herself and pop it down to the vet. A nurse can put a litmus paper in and voila - instant result.

No we don't pay the bills, however bills are very much part of horse ownership unfortunately.

It's their call as to whether they will get the vet out and look at him, but my guess is they'll monitor his behaviour more before doing so.

If you have the pony on full loan, it's your call - not theirs.

 

[HashRouge]

If you have the pony on full loan, it's your call - not theirs.

^That^

Look, why don't you just ring the vet and ask for advice? That won't cost anything, and they'll be able to tell you whether it sounds like a problem they have come across before. They'll be able to give you much better advice than a forum of strangers and his owners, however experienced you think there may be. Plus, the vets don't charge you for ringing for advice

I never understand why this doesn't occur to people.

 

[BeesKnees]

In terms of smacking, if he won't go off a light squeeze try a firmer squeeze, then a firm tap behind the leg, you want him to really shoot forward, once he has done this it is really important to repeat the leg aid.

Whilst this is good re-schooling advice, it will only be successful if the person doing it is balanced enough not to smack the pony in the mouth with the bit as it responds to the whip and moves forward suddenly. Otherwise you get a mixed message and a very confused horse!

By the sounds of it, someone more experienced would be needed to achieve this.

Frankly, let's face it. Most ponies become a bit naughty and dead to the leg because they are ridden by children learning to ride, and have to put up with some pretty crappy riding. Surely therefore the problem may be as likely with the rider than the pony?

 

[Pale Rider]

Kicks and whips!!

Some proper riding lessons might help.

 

[Alyth]

I started to reply to the op this morning (NZ time!) but deleted as I thought I was being a bit harsh!! The first thing I want to point out is that ponies (and horses) are animals that don't think the same way we do. They are never "naughty", they are either expressing pain or leadership or exuberance. Now if you are a novice I assume your daughter is even more of a novice.....nothing wrong with that, you are open to learning... The first thing is to try and read the ponies body language. And from what you have said I would guess that his sheath needs cleaning and probably a "bean" is "clogging up the works". This happens very often and is no big deal, but it is a "grubby" job which needs to be done in a calm and sympathetic manner for the pony....When he is comfortable he will be more willing to move forward when requested.
Now when this problem has been resolved you (and your daughter) need to recognise that you need to "reward every try". That means when you ask him to move forward and he does...even slightly...you allow him to move forward...release the pressure....
I would really reccomend that you both do some basic natural horsemanship clinics so you understand the basic principles of "pressure and release" "reward every try" "phases"...As has been said many times "force does not create a ballet"....So smacking, kicking etc does not create a good relationship between pony and rider. To go back to the opinion that a more experienced/adult rider gets results, remember the bigger the whip the harder the hurt....it's not doing the partnership between your daughter and the pony any good.....Good luck to both of you....

 

[Pale Rider]

I started to reply to the op this morning (NZ time!) but deleted as I thought I was being a bit harsh!! The first thing I want to point out is that ponies (and horses) are animals that don't think the same way we do. They are never "naughty", they are either expressing pain or leadership or exuberance. Now if you are a novice I assume your daughter is even more of a novice.....nothing wrong with that, you are open to learning... The first thing is to try and read the ponies body language. And from what you have said I would guess that his sheath needs cleaning and probably a "bean" is "clogging up the works". This happens very often and is no big deal, but it is a "grubby" job which needs to be done in a calm and sympathetic manner for the pony....When he is comfortable he will be more willing to move forward when requested.
Now when this problem has been resolved you (and your daughter) need to recognise that you need to "reward every try". That means when you ask him to move forward and he does...even slightly...you allow him to move forward...release the pressure....
I would really reccomend that you both do some basic natural horsemanship clinics so you understand the basic principles of "pressure and release" "reward every try" "phases"...As has been said many times "force does not create a ballet"....So smacking, kicking etc does not create a good relationship between pony and rider. To go back to the opinion that a more experienced/adult rider gets results, remember the bigger the whip the harder the hurt....it's not doing the partnership between your daughter and the pony any good.....Good luck to both of you....

^^At last, lol.^^

 

[Littlelegs]

In theory it is something the op can check with an experienced yo & get help with. But seen as the pony is on loan from a rs that thinks kicking & hitting is the way to teach, & more than likely have made the pony dead to the leg through teaching other kids to ride it like that before ops daughter I wouldn't rate them as someone experienced to turn to for help or advise. What sort of instructor gives a novice child a whip in the first place? A crap one imo. Ponies don't become dead to the leg from kids learning to ride. They become dead from kids learning to ride badly.

 

[xxMozlarxx]

[QUOTE=Alyth;10862386. They are never "naughty", they are either expressing pain or leadership or exuberance."

Naughty or expressing leadership.....it's just semantics..


" And from what you have said I would guess that his sheath needs cleaning and probably a "bean" is "clogging up the works". This happens very often and is no big deal, but it is a "grubby" job which needs to be done in a calm and sympathetic manner for the pony....When he is comfortable he will be more willing to move forward when requested."

OP has confirmed pony has no difficulty urinating, this is a common schooling evasion.

 

[joeanne]

I have had two ponies that did this.
Both had previously had obesity induced Lami. The second pony had very poor kidney function and having someone on his back put too much pressure on him and he constantly needed a wee.....but nothing happened. It would take 3-4 attempts before he would finally manage to go.
Both ponies also turned out to be cushinoid.
You really do need to get the vet out to see your pony.

 

[AmyMay]

OP has confirmed pony has no difficulty urinating

But they haven't. That's exactly the point.

 

[Littlelegs]

Ops had the pony for 3 days. Unless op lives in the field/stable how can she know exactly how he manages without a rider? Even if it were the case, it could still be that the weight of a rider exaggerates the problem.

 

[guido16]

For goodness sake. Get the vet out. What is the problem?

Vet out= discover if health issue or not

Health issue = treat problem and stop kicking and whipping pony
No health issue = get a better instructor and stop kicking and whipping pony
Simple

Until you can rule out a health issue you can't figure out the problem. And yes, you loan pony so it is YOUR responsibility to get vet.

 

[AmyMay]

For goodness sake. Get the vet out. What is the problem?

Vet out= discover if health issue or not

Health issue = treat problem and stop kicking and whipping pony
No health issue = get a better instructor and stop kicking and whipping pony
Simple

Until you can rule out a health issue you can't figure out the problem. And yes, you loan pony so it is YOUR responsibility to get vet.

 

[Wagtail]

Op, ask yourself how sure you are that he's being a git, say for example you are 80% sure it's bad manners, 20% possibility he needs a vet... Then ask how confident are you in your own judgement, you are admittedly a novice. If I was only 5% sure it was pain or something that needed a vet... I'd probably still want a vet to check and I have 20yrs experience. You seem reluctant to get a vet yet you came on here for advice... What big deal is a call out and an examination fee for peace of mind? Especially with your limited knowledge base. As an owner i would also be less than impressed if there was a potential problem with my horse and the loaner failed to get it assesed, what's the worst that can happen, you pay the vet a few quid and get peace of mind and develop an action plan for dealing with the behaviour, or you find out there is a medical reason and treat it. Vets is in my opinion a win win situation. Just because a couple of people on here have has horses who did and were not Ill or in pain, does not mean your pony isn't. As you are responsible for the welfare of the pony you should call the vet, it could be any number of things.

I completely agree with this. Get the vet out.

 

[djlynwood]

For goodness sake. Get the vet out. What is the problem?

Vet out= discover if health issue or not

Health issue = treat problem and stop kicking and whipping pony
No health issue = get a better instructor and stop kicking and whipping pony
Simple

Until you can rule out a health issue you can't figure out the problem. And yes, you loan pony so it is YOUR responsibility to get vet.

^This :0)

 

[9tails]

No amount of kicks or whips on the bottom would get him to budge.

This, to me, doesn't sound like one kick and a small tap on the bottom.

 

[Wagtail]

I'd be bankrupt if i got the vet everytime one of mine was naughty or refused to move forwards or napped.
Clever sods that know every evasion technique in the book

I have in the past fallen for this theory of bad behaviour must equal pain, why take the chance it's'just a few quid....
Well it's'not is it, it's'a 100 for callout and basic examination for starters, and in one year i lost count on the call outs, and bugger all wrong.

Nothing but cheeky ponies and I now have the sense to realise if a pony strides out ears pricked hacking then they are 99% of the time taking the pee when napping in a school.
Being able to make such judgements comes with experience. Ask your YO, experienced friend etc, someone who can actually see the pony, they'll know pretty much straight away if you've a cheeky pony.
All of what you say suggests pony is taking the pee

It's'easy for others to say get the vet to anything and everything, they're not paying the bill!

You have the opposite experience to me then. I can honestly say that 95% of 'naughtiness' is pain related. Sometimes it has taken more than a quick visit from the vet to find it, but pain related it has been! One owner here spent £8k with vets telling her her mare's napping was behavioural, but it turned out she had gastric ulcers and her napping went away completely once they were treated. It is often very hard, even for a vet to find a problem with just a quick examination.

 

[MrsJ]

Well haven't I been well and truly put in my place. I'm so glad I asked for advice and got a lecture. I think I'll take myself, my pony beating child, my rubbish RI and inexperienced YO off now

 

[Wagtail]

Well haven't I been well and truly put in my place. I'm so glad I asked for advice and got a lecture. I think I'll take myself, my pony beating child, my rubbish RI and inexperienced YO off now

Goodness me, if you lose your rag with the pony as easily as you do on here when you have received very polite and informative advice, then I am not surprised you are experiencing problems.

 

[Littlelegs]

no amount of throwing your toys out of the pram will convince me an instructor who teaches hitting & kicking or arms a novice child with a whip is experienced or any good, & nor is a yo that condones it.

 

[Littlelegs]

And nobody has said its your fault if that's the only thing you've been taught.

 

[AmyMay]

Well haven't I been well and truly put in my place. I'm so glad I asked for advice and got a lecture. I think I'll take myself, my pony beating child, my rubbish RI and inexperienced YO off now

I don't think you've been lectured. Just given well rounded advice.

Good luck with your pony.

 

[Goldenstar]

Well haven't I been well and truly put in my place. I'm so glad I asked for advice and got a lecture. I think I'll take myself, my pony beating child, my rubbish RI and inexperienced YO off now

Gosh I am glad you have not got my pony on loan.

 

[MrsJ]

Wagtail, not all of it had read 'polite' but maybe that's just the downside of the written word having no tone. The pony is on short term part loan from the riding school with all vetting fees etc still their respsibility. After discussing it at length with them this morning, bearing in mind they see him in a multitude of environments and with a mixture or riders that he is in fact being a little sod with my daughter. (I've also ridden him in the school and he goes forward with ease in all three paces on both reins with the smallest amount of pressure from the leg) yet put a small child on his back and it's a different story.

I'm happy with their instruction, they are all BHS qualified, they all compete some to a very high standard and the chief instructor has in the past actually ended loans prematurely when she thinks the pony is being ridden poorly.

Thankyou everyone for your advice.

 

[AmyMay]

If he is on part loan from the RS, and is still therefore being used as a RS pony - you may well be better off getting a private loan. My experience of the kind of loan you have is that they are usually a bit of a rip off - unfair on pony/horse and rider.

The pony may well be stale, bored and royally fed up (as well as potentially unwell). So the loan was probably doomed from the start.

 

[MrsJ]

Amymay I think you are right, I thinks he's bored as fed up of being schooled. When we hacked him the other Sunday he was fine. But my daughters ability is limited and she needs to be in a more confined area to work on her canter, it wouldn't be fair or safe to stick her out in an open field for a good old gallop which is where I think he would be happy. There is another family at the yard who want to loan him for that purpose, to go off on hacks with their elder siblings and gallop across fields. This I feel will be much better for him.