Is it cruel to purposly leave a horse cold to lose weight?

Is it acceptable to purposly leave a horse cold and shivering to help it lose weight?

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Wagtail

Wagtail

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The forum seems to be divided regarding this subject. Do you think it is ethical to purposely allow a horse to get cold in order to lose weight? Or is it just cruel? Vote now! :D
 
It depends what we are talking here.

Leaving an unclipped pony without a rug in weather that is dropping a little bit colder - perfectly acceptable.

Leaving a clipped pony out with no rug in weather that is below zero - definitely not.

There is then a sliding scale between the two where the answer becomes a little greyer !
 
Personally I feel that horses should be left as minimally clipped and rugged as much as possible to allow their natural homeostasis mechanisms to work more efficiently.. Horses are much better designed to cope with cold weather than hot..

Only one of my horses gets rugged as she has never developed a proper winter coat and struggles with the cold and wet together.. If its just cold or just wet she is fine..

So no, I don't think it's cruel unless the horse is clipped and can't use it's coat to keep the heat in and the rain off it's skin..
 
I think there's a balance to be struck between leaving a horse uncomfortably cold and leaving him unrugged in conditions where he's on the cool side but comfortable and needs to move around and use some of his stored energy for warmth.
 
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I like the fact that in the Winter mine will drop weight and if they go into winter plumper then it will come off quickly enough. I will not have them shivering or miserable though.

I think there is a difference in accepting that the seasons will affect a horses condition, and in allowing your horse to be uncomfortable.
 
It's not cruel to be slow in rugging against the harsher elements if your horse is comfortable.

However, to leave any horse cold, wet and shivering without any attention given - that is cruel.
 
Lizzie66 said:
It depends what we are talking here.

Leaving an unclipped pony without a rug in weather that is dropping a little bit colder - perfectly acceptable.

Leaving a clipped pony out with no rug in weather that is below zero - definitely not.

There is then a sliding scale between the two where the answer becomes a little greyer !
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Agreed ^ - and I include horses on that too.

The only time I'd be very careful is if a horse is overweight & silly enough to spin round & round a wet slippy or hard frosted field to warm itself up, thus likely to do some damage to itself (tendons etc), then it would be rugged accordingly.

However, who on here is going to admit that THEY have overweight horses/ponies :D
 
Yes, if old or sick and shivering and clearly uncomfortable for long periods. However rushing out to rug when overall the temperatures are mild or rain is short lived is probably unnecessary. Healthy horses are pretty good at regulating their own temperature if given sufficient forage and shelter.
Given the choice between being cold for an hour or so and being hot in a rug for 10 hours, I'd chose the former.
Over rugging is a welfare issue.
 
I think the key is knowing what is acceptable with regards to allowing a horse to "shiver" a bit of weight off, and as AmyMay says, leaving a wet, cold ditressed horse to suffer.
You can clip a fatty out and just rug LESS, and the end result will be the same, but easier on the horse!
 
Don't we do this every year? And every year, most people bicker over the "grey area" while the opposing side leap to the extremes (over rugged and obese vs clipped and naked in -20) as if those were the only alternatives?
 
I think its fine to let them lose weight through keeping warm, both through movement & metabolism, but not to lose weight through being cold if that makes sense? i.e. if they are warm enough but burning calories/fat to maintain it, that's fine. Plenty of more pleasant ways for a horse to lose weight.
 
I'm not actually sure; obviously the best situation is not to allow a horse to get overweight in the first place.

Again I'm a bit perplexed by the 'wild horses' argument that is usually dragged in, and the 'natural' weight gain in summer/weight loss in winter. My horses are not wild, and I personally believe it is better if their weight remains fairly consistent, and not just because it makes tack fitting a little easier! :)

I would never leave a horse looking miserable, tucked up and shivering. I have however looked after ponies (natives) out all winter with bib type clips and unrugged so I suppose it is what covers the definition 'cold'

Helpful as usual, sorry :rolleyes:
 
It`s lazy and unfair, in my opinion. To lose weight the horse needs to move more and eat less, same as us. To deliberately leave an animal shivering in the cold and/or wet in a misguided attempt for it to lose weight and with minimal or no effort from the owner is, in my opinion, unethical and yes, bordering on cruel.
 
amymay said:
It's not cruel to be slow in rugging against the harsher elements if your horse is comfortable.

However, to leave any horse cold, wet and shivering without any attention given - that is cruel.
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^^^^ This.

I'm almost embarassed to say that I do sometimes rug an unclipped native, however the native in question doesn't cope well in a combination of wet/cold weather and if unrugged will end up shivering developing coughs etc. I couldn't have slept at night knowing a horse was shivering and uncomfortable.
 
We have a nation of incresingly fat horses and so many laminitis cases and EMS related issues.

My fat retired TBx lives out (hairy) with no rug (and has done for last couple of winters) and no hard feed. He is recently diagnosed cushings and although not suffered from laminitis must be high risk. Not mollycoddling him in the winter is about the only effective method of keeping his waistline in some sort of order.

My young, fat tendancy, competition horse gets clipped out and would be more lightly rugged than many others I see, although to be fair I do rug the working horses pretty religiously.

In answer to your question, no it is not cruel if the horse is overweight, unfortunately very few owners are willing to acknowledge their overweight horses, let alone do much about it.
 
Some ponies are just a nightmare to keep their weight down no matter how hard you try! My cob is on very little food/haylage and very sparse grazing and yet, despite being worked 6 days a week is still overweight. Therefore in the winter he will be kept cool - not cold! - so he can use some of his fat to keep himself warm. By springtime he is nice and lean for the battle to start again when the grass comes through :rolleyes:
 
I personally do not like to see any animal shiver, and would act accordingly if Finn was stood out shivering, come autumn he'll be in at night anyway and will be rugged to his needs.

Merlin was a cold horse he felt the cold badly, so needed rugging when needed, one day he was out and the heavens opened i was at work and couldn't get to him, soon i finished I went to get him in and he was stood at gate waiting to come in freezing, and it wasn't winter either started as a lovely day hence no rug, had to get in thatch him up til he warmed up and rugged him up cosy after that.
 
touchstone said:
^^^^ This.

I'm almost embarassed to say that I do sometimes rug an unclipped native, however the native in question doesn't cope well in a combination of wet/cold weather and if unrugged will end up shivering developing coughs etc. I couldn't have slept at night knowing a horse was shivering and uncomfortable.
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AmyMay was always rugged, clipped or not. I actually nearly died from shock during the winter she was totally roughed off and coped really well without a rug:D However, she was coming in at night.

But bottom line is, I'm a rugger - always will be. And I have to work really hard not to be too quick to pop one on.:(
 
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rhino said:
I'm not actually sure; obviously the best situation is not to allow a horse to get overweight in the first place.

Again I'm a bit perplexed by the 'wild horses' argument that is usually dragged in, and the 'natural' weight gain in summer/weight loss in winter. My horses are not wild, and I personally believe it is better if their weight remains fairly consistent, and not just because it makes tack fitting a little easier! :)

I would never leave a horse looking miserable, tucked up and shivering. I have however looked after ponies (natives) out all winter with bib type clips and unrugged so I suppose it is what covers the definition 'cold'

Helpful as usual, sorry :rolleyes:
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Yay! someone who has the same view as me on it. As our horses are not wild, they are domestic, there is no reason why they should have the huge weight fluctuation that a wild horse would throughout the year. It may not be like it would be in the wild, but I prefer mine to remain pretty much the same weight throughout the year.
 
I think there are plenty like in BBH's case where you kind of need the winter to keep the weight down over the year, or they'd keep piling it on despite exercise!

Being a bit cooler to touch and having to move around more is fine to me, but very mean to deliberately leave them shivering and soaked through.
 
No, I don't think it is acceptable. I have two who are not rugged because they grow stonking Winter coats and are good doers, however, they have permanent access to shelter and hay throughout the Winter if they need to get out of bad weather.
 
amymay said:
AmyMay was always rugged, clipped or not. I actually nearly died from amazement during the winter she was totally roughed off and coped really well without a rug:D However, she was coming in at night.

But bottom line is, I'm a rugger - always will be. And I have to work really hard not to be too quick to pop one on.:(
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I am lucky with my mare. She tells me straight, if she doesn't want a rug on. She swishes her tail and tries to head me off. Sometimes, if I think it's pretty cold, I am surprised. But I know she will stand as good as gold to have her rug put on if she's cold. And if the flies are out in force, she will virtually put her own fly rug on!
 
I think it is cruel to leave a horse uncomfortably cold to make it lose weight. To lose weight you get them to move more and eat less. If a person is over weight , I suspect weight watchers do not suggest they get uncomfortably cold to lose weight!
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
However, who on here is going to admit that THEY have overweight horses/ponies :D
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I'll hold my hand up!

I have two that could both do with losing some weigh. They are not obese but have both become a bit cresty over the last week and could definitely do with losing a bit. They (one 14.3 cob and one 14.2 Arab x) are on approx half an acre of reasonable grazing and I am seriously considering dividing that in half! Can't use a grazing muzzle on cob (not sure about the other one) and cant strip graze cob either (no respect for fencing of any type).

I am at my wits end trying to get some weight off them - so if anyone has any suggestions??
 
I have a fatty, although he is losing it now. He's a cob so I'm going to try to resist from putting anything heavier than a rain sheet on. He will probably have a bib clip as he will go very hairy. But he will be in at night without one.
 
What exercise do they do Bertolie? My oldie can't be ridden but he's been doing about an hour a day walking in hand as he's a good doer, and it really has helped. :)
 
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