Is it cruel to purposly leave a horse cold to lose weight?

Is it acceptable to purposly leave a horse cold and shivering to help it lose weight?

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siennamum said:
Do you not think you are ranting here slightly. Perhaps, but it's my thread and I'll rant if I want to. :D Do you actually know people who are like this, I assume it is no one on here. Yes, and from what I've read in the past, yes!
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Don't you think it is lazy horsemanship?
 
Yep done it and will say that it has worked for me this summer. Coblet was clipped fully out three times since april everything but the mane and tail off and left unrugged ALL SUMMER.

At the minute she is growing a coat like no-ones business and that will be coming off beg of Oct and she will be lightly rugged to keep the worst of the weather off her. I am planning on riding HOPEFULLY all winter (weather dependant) but if she has to be laid off then hte hair will be getting left to grow then the rug coming off.

I would rather have to add calories/feeding/hay to the diet to keep her at a manageable weight than have to lunge the living daylights out of her everyday to keep the weight off. Im not a monster if she is genuinely frozen then I will rug her accordingly BUT its kinder on her in the long run than having a lami bout or getting a chill because I leave her unclipped/unrugged when she lives on fresh air.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Agreed ^ - and I include horses on that too.

The only time I'd be very careful is if a horse is overweight & silly enough to spin round & round a wet slippy or hard frosted field to warm itself up, thus likely to do some damage to itself (tendons etc), then it would be rugged accordingly.

However, who on here is going to admit that THEY have overweight horses/ponies :D
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I am more than happy to admit that we have one who is overweight. We bought her like that, she has lost some weight with us (she is on a permanent diet) and still has more to lose. When we got her, in Jan 2010, she had been clipped out and had a no-fill rug, which we used until the weather warmed up and her coat started to grow. Last year she was unclipped and unrugged (in overnight). I would prefer her not to shiver but I certainly want her to burn off some of her fat keeping warm. I prefer to be able to let her eat fibre until she is comfortably full and leave unrugged, than to have to drastically restrict her intake. She does have straw chaff as part of her ration.

Of course in the wild, horses would put weight on over the summer and lose it again in the winter, that is how their metabolism works.

I have never actually seen a horse move around to keep warm. IME, they stand in whatever shelter they can find, if it's wet/windy, looking utterly miserable or they are out eating quite happily.
The only time I've ever seen a horse trying to control its temperature by running about was a 'speshul' TBxWelshD who overheated one August Sunday (thank goodness) and was cantering in small circles, presumably to create a breeze. Fortunately we could bring her in and use water to cool her down. We've wished since that we had taken a photo of her with a wet towel draped around her ears but at the time of course, that was the furthest thing from our minds.
 
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I joke about letting mine shiver off the calories all the time, but in reality I would never let them suffer shivering in the cold weather.

My 2yo welsh D has never been rugged and lives out. But she grows a very good winter coat and so far I've managed to stop myself buying her any rugs as never seen her suffer.

My connemara is overweight but he will be rugged and clipped. I want them comfy but being good doers, I don't need to rug them up to their eye balls so they're sweating just to keep weight on. So in a way I do want them moving about to keep warm now and then, but definitely not to feel cold.
 
Wagtail said:
Don't you think it is lazy horsemanship?
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I think when you take an extreme example of someone whose horse is left in all weathers with no attention and they make glib comments about using the weather to get the weight off then that would be lazy.

I don't think the people on this thread who struggle to keep the weight off their horses and who don't rush to rug up at the first bit of adverse weather are lazy.

My approach balances the horse living in a happy, consistent, natural environment, which benefits their wind, their limbs and their digestion. I will continually monitor whether they have put weight on (sadly it is never the alternative) and depending upon our planned workload, time of year and the reasons for them putting weight, not neccessarily do any more about it. It's not laziness just a different way of managing horses.

At this time of year, and in the Spring they will put weight on. Not loads, but enough for us to either start bringing them in off the grass (Spring Approach) or wait for the goodness to go from the grass and up their workload now Summer holidays are over (Autumn approach). It's just common sense to my mind - not laziness.

A small annual fluctuation in weight is fine, normal, seasonal and healthy to my mind. It goes hand in hand with feet growing more, coats changing, hormones raging and any other metabolic changes they are programmed to go through.
 
Lizzie66 said:
It depends what we are talking here.

Leaving an unclipped pony without a rug in weather that is dropping a little bit colder - perfectly acceptable.

Leaving a clipped pony out with no rug in weather that is below zero - definitely not.

There is then a sliding scale between the two where the answer becomes a little greyer !
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It depends on the horse. I've a pony with a trace clip and she's left unrugged over winter. Why? She's clipped because she's hot and itchy. ONLY, if its really wet and windy, does she get cold. IF she's cold, she'll get a rug popped on. We're talking a rug going on maybe 3-4 nights over winter.


Its one thing to leave a horse that's cold but if the horse is cold enough that it's shivering, I would then put a rug on/take it inside. I feel that that is taking it too far and I would up exercise before going down the route of leaving a shivering horse out in the field.
 
Wagtail said:
I am lucky with my mare. She tells me straight, if she doesn't want a rug on. She swishes her tail and tries to head me off. Sometimes, if I think it's pretty cold, I am surprised. But I know she will stand as good as gold to have her rug put on if she's cold. And if the flies are out in force, she will virtually put her own fly rug on!
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I have a mare just like this. She doesn't wear a fly rug but is just as happy dropping her head to me to have her mask on, she even comes up from the bottom of the field when I wave it from th gate. They are not so stupid as some people think and my mare makes sure I get it right!
 
I dont clip and mine dont see a rug unless I see shivering or very skinny (haha yeh right!). They have natural shelter, which they usually ignore when its throwing it down with rain :rolleyes: and I control their diets carefully to allow them to lose weight in the winter that their bodies have stored over summer, which is what theyre designed to do.

Just because they're domesticated doesnt mean their bodies, their very DNA has forgotten what its been programmed to do - you see this with mares coming into season in spring, with their feet functioning fine if barefoot adapting to surfaces, with stallions presenting to mares etc etc
 
Horses are designed to warm themselves up. What they are not good at is cooling themselves down. IMO it is far more cruel to over rug a horse to keep his coat in a nicer condition or stop the coat growing. I know a few people who do this. Reasons being the horse needs sedation to be clipped so putting 7 layers of rugs on will stop her from growing a winter coat.. to horse's coat looks nicer for showing when they sweat. Both disgraceful!

Now if the horse is clipped then we take away a lot of their ability to warm themselves up so it is cruel to not put an appropriate rug on for the weather/temperature. Most unclipped horses should be able to cope all year without a rug.
 
Going off on a slight tangent, but what do people think of not or under-rugging for weight loss versus dieting (when a horse's gut is designed to be eating for many hours a day)? I think I know what my horses would prefer...
 
Excellent point MainPower - especially as leaving horses without food causes colic and ulcers aside from the obvious mental issues :)
 
But dieting shouldn't mean restricting food to the point that the horse is going without for long hours. When mine is 'dieting' she is on restricted grazing with plenty of low calorie high fibre forage usually fed in small holed nets, so they are occupied for longer than just being allowed to stuff themselves.
 
Wagtail said:
And three people have voted for option 3 in this poll.
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Weird. Why would you want it to lose weight if it's not overweight? :confused:

touchstone said:
But dieting shouldn't mean restricting food to the point that the horse is going without for long hours. When mine is 'dieting' she is on restricted grazing with plenty of low calorie high fibre forage usually fed in small holed nets, so they are occupied for longer than just being allowed to stuff themselves.
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That's my idea of horse-dieting too Touchstone. Mollie always has hay, but in doubled or trebled small-hole nets so she can only munch a tiny bit at a time.

I'm glad of this thread. I did ask on the other thread what people thought of "shivering weight off" as one or two people have suggested I do that with Mollie recently. I'd never heard of it before and although I could see the logic, I really don't think I could bear to leave her tucked up and shivering.

She's in the starvation paddock at present. I'm lunging or riding every day possible, I've also found another rider to give her more exercise.

This time last year she'd had more grass and less exercise, but was stressed and thinner. This year she's settled and happy. And fat. :mad:
 
No, to leave a horse cold as a means to lose weight is unnacceptable to me.
I have to watch 2 of my horses weights due to joint problems and arthritis, i know the cold affects them both so it is not an option, but even if they were healthy, in this country the cold is isually accompanied by rain and wind, a cold, wet, shivering horse is usually a miserable beast, i personally wouldnt want to inflict that diet on my horses.
A mix of soaked hay and straw keeps the calories down but the gut going, if its double netted and given regularly over the day the horse stil has the trickle feeding it requires.
 
My 3 year old New Forest X is fat - I admit it. She has a serious food obsession - not good for me when all I've ever had is TBs which I have had to get weight on!!! I either take her for a walk in hand, or lunge her or free lunge her about 4 times per week. She won't be broken in until next year as she is still bum high, so I am struggling to keep the weight off her. She goes in the starve patch for the night and in the field with the big mares during the day. Some nights I will bring her in. I don't rug her - not because I think she should shiver it off, but I believe that by rugging her at this time of year, I am interfering with her natural metabolism and her natural ability to regulate her body temperature. If she was standing miserable and cold, then I would put a lightweight on her, but she isn't and she will stay unrugged until she tells me that a rug is necessary. My view is that by the horse regulating it's own body temperature it is using calories in order to do this. But no, I wouldn't leave one shivering and miserable without a rug.
 
I admit to having an obese pony, although i didnt let him get like that i bought him like it, poor lad - have a look at ths photo, would YOU rug him ? I am usually one for rugging my ponies up but this one wont see more than a rainsheet until he is fit and in regular work

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MyOH hunter came to us obese he has been on a diet every since and he's lost wieght slowly he gained twenty kilos during a short break in march April and our land was bare its really really difficult to control his wieght one thing I do is purposely keep him in as thin a rug as I can at the moment he's on a bare starvation strip with a shed it's very cold here to night he has no rug do I think he's cold well he's probally on the cool side as will be his two friends both who do well but are an a short enforced break the TB on the other hand is wearing a medium wieght rug I will consider stabling him fron tomorrow.
It makes no sense to rug fatties up warmly you only have to see how a drop in temperature makes thin skinned TB's loose wieght to see it helps .
I don't like seeing horses shiver and would not allow them to do so for days on end but if say it poured tonight two of the three unrugged ones would be cold would I rush out to rug them no, but they will be in their stables tomorrow morning to dry off .
A bit of a shiver does not harm a horse who is used to being out as long as it's healthy .
 
kerrieberry2 said:
if its over weight then cut down its food and exercise it more! you wouldn't leave a fat child out in the cold to lose weight, why leave a poor horse out to lose weight!
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Because its a horse designed to live outside he's an ID perfectly capable to live the whole winter outside without rugging if I wanted him too .
A horse is not a child the comparison is frankly ridiculous .
 
Perfectly fine! As long as the field has shelter, whether a field shelter or natural hedges to get some relief from constant wind and rain. What I find cruel is horse's over rugged and sweating and getting so fat in the winter that they spend the entire spring and summer stuck in a stable. My mare lives out in her retirement and gets a bit tubby in summer, yet as I don't rug her she will lose the summer fat and come into spring on the lean side - just as she should. I am sure people think I am cruel! No one passes comment when she is fat - but they are quick to tell me she has lost weight!! The only time she shivers is if we have wet and windy days, but as soon as she gets her hay the shivering seems to stop! There are also thick hedges around the field and trees in it.
 
I don't do it purposly but mine will not keep a rug on. Big hairy cob did for a few weeks but the two section a's had brand new rugs, spent a fortune and they were in a heap within hours!!! Washed them and tried again but they didn't last the day and they ripped them apart getting them off so all winter last year they had the hedges and that was it...what more can you do when they live out? They are not in particularly hard work as they were turned away to mature. Hairy cob was trussed up in the thickest rugs the year i bought him so I am weaning him off them. Only reason for rugging mine would be so they could be used but how do you keep them on?
 
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kerrieberry2 said:
if its over weight then cut down its food and exercise it more! you wouldn't leave a fat child out in the cold to lose weight, why leave a poor horse out to lose weight!
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Because horses are NOT children, contrary to what a number of people on here appear to believe.
They are evolved to put weight on in summer and lose it in winter, which many owners do not allow them to do. They are also evolved to keep themselves warm without clothes.
 
kerrieberry2 said:
if its over weight then cut down its food and exercise it more! you wouldn't leave a fat child out in the cold to lose weight, why leave a poor horse out to lose weight!
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This pony is in work 6 days a week, usually for at least an hour and a half if schooling (1 hour schooling and 15 min hack to/from school) or 2 hours if hacking which include lots of trot/canter work and hills.
He gets 2 small slices of soaked haylage - intolerant to hay - and a tiny hard feed to put his supplements in, he is out on sparse grazing overnight when the sugar in the grass is lower. Please tell me how you would reduce his feed or up his exercise cos I would love to know ;) He did over 2 hours fast work/XC on Sunday with no problems so is fit.

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As I said before no matter what you do some horses and ponies will put on weight, leaving them slightly cooler - NOT COLD over the winter is a great way of helping to shift that extra weight so they don't go down with Laminitis in the spring.
 
No, there are other ways, more humane to get a horse to lose weight, such as reducing/changing food and exercising them more. Imo it is lazy owners with no time due to poor priority setting who leave a horse tucked up, looking miserable, shivering.
 
My cob spent last winter unrugged (except on days I needed him clean/dry for riding when he had a rain sheet) with a trace clip, he never shivered & he still didn't lose much weight. During the winter I can only ride at the weekends, so would it have been better to rug him & let him come out of winter chubby? I don't think so. He was only slightly chubby going into winter but I knew come spring he would only have to think about the grass growing to put on weight so needed to come out of winter a bit slender. Many cobs & ponies quickly develop a talent for removing muzzles as well, not that l have ever found one that didn't rub him.
Also I'm sure I've seen that research has shown it's better for cobs & natives to put on a bit of weight (but not a stupid amount) in the late summer/autumn & come out of winter a bit thin than for them to maintain a constant weight all year round.
 
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