Is it cruel to purposly leave a horse cold to lose weight?

Is it acceptable to purposly leave a horse cold and shivering to help it lose weight?

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As the owner of:
A fat shettie who is ridden most days for 20-30 mins lightly and lunged a couple of times a week for a extra 10 mins. He is kept in a starvation paddock as our grazing is too rich for him. I give him a full clip in winter so I can feed him hay, otherwise he just gets really fat! Obviously he has a thin fleece and a no fill rug on and is toasty. People think I'm cruel but it's the only way he comes back into spring without being obese!

Just bought a new pony for my daughter and because he had very limited turn out in a field he has ballooned in size and shivers like hell as soon as the drizzle starts. Unfortunately he is going to have to get used to rain! He is fine whilst his head is down eating its when you bring him in he starts shivering. I don't leave him out in the driving rain for days on end, he is brought in for a couple of hours everyday and we haven't had that much rain that would make me rug him. He gets a chance to relax, have some hay and dry out.

I don't believe in leaving old, ill or under weight horses out un-rugged in freezing temps. Healthy fat horses won't die after being left out in a bit rain when it's actually still quite warm for the time of year.
 
Wagtail said:
I am lucky with my mare. She tells me straight, if she doesn't want a rug on. She swishes her tail and tries to head me off. Sometimes, if I think it's pretty cold, I am surprised. But I know she will stand as good as gold to have her rug put on if she's cold.
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:D I have some like that, they'll see me coming with the trailer full of blankets and back off. The ones that like their blankets are practically choosing which one they want and fight to get in line.
 
I think the main thing here is the difference between "cool" and "cold". I (hopefully) doubt that anyone here would leave their horses cold but a fair few - myself included - will leave them cool.
 
Both of mine are looking overweight atm. Sometimes I think they look fine, then there must be a sudden grass growth and they look fat. I welcome Winter and being able to leave them out at grass without worrying. This Summer has been terrible with the grass growing like mad for months.

I could muzzle, stable for long periods or drastically reduce the areas they have to graze, but instead I will put up with them carrying a few extra pounds coming into Winter in the knowledge that they will have lost it coming out of Winter.

I fail to see what is so bizarre about this approach & we are not talking about huge amounts of weight, I don't know who would let their horses put on huge amounts of weight without trying to do something proactive to stop it.
 
Broke_But_Happy said:
I think the main thing here is the difference between "cool" and "cold". I (hopefully) doubt that anyone here would leave their horses cold but a fair few - myself included - will leave them cool.
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I think you'd be surprised, someone on the other rugging thread last night said they'd be happy to leave a visibly tucked up, shivering horse out in the rain :( Because they are 'horses', whatever that is supposed to mean :rolleyes:
 
rhino said:
What exercise do they do Bertolie? My oldie can't be ridden but he's been doing about an hour a day walking in hand as he's a good doer, and it really has helped. :)
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Mainly hacking, anything from 2-4 times per week and from 30mins to 2 hrs per hack. We have the use of a small indoor school (approx 15m x 25m) so fine for lunging or a bit of walk/trot but not for cantering. Its the time issue more than anything (work full time 8-5). I know we need to up the exercise but not sure what to do about grazing. Is a quarter of an acre too small an area for two?
 
My natives could probably survive on the top of a mountain without human intervention......

However, they don't live like that. I want them to thrive and I want to ride them. They have different musculature to ferals after spending years in building up their back muscles to enable them to do their jobs. Cold muscles can easily become damaged muscles so if they 'tell' me they are more comfortable with a light rug over their backs (and they most certainly make their feelings clear) then they can have one. Waistlines are best controlled by work and attention to the type of diet.
 
I think it is lazy horsemanship to let horses get fat over summer and then leave them to shiver it off over winter. And yes, quite a few people do that. Cant be bothered to muzzle or restrict grazing in the summer, and can't be bothered to exercise them more to get it off. Why bother when they can sit back and let them shiver it off? Better than bothering with all that rug changing malarky and an excellent excuse for anyone who accuses them of being cruel leaving their horses out in the cold and rain, shivering.
 
My retired, very good doer of a horse, is generally left rugless in winter and out 24/7. This is a decision based on keeping her weight down. However, she isn't cold. She grows a good coat and has ab lib forage. I check her elbow and base of her ears frequently and she's generally as warm, if not warmer, than my not so hardy rugged up gelding.

The alternative would be to rug her and restrict her forage which she doesn't like and attempts to trash the fencing to get to the other horses' hay.

When we have prolonged wet weather then I do rug her as she does get shivery and I don't and would never leave her to shiver.

There's a difference between letting a horse use some calories keeping warm (and therefore them being warm) and a horse being left shivery and cold.
 
Wild/feral horses can search for the best forage, eat themselves to death in the summer months, search for the best winter grazing and shelter when the days get short.

Our captive horses in their tiny paddocks cannot do this.

I would never allow a horse to shiver off its weight.
 
I don't have a problem with leaving an overweight horse cold so they can walk around to warm themselves up and burn some calories. But there is a big different if you are talking about a wet horse that is soaked through and shivering - this is not fair in my opinion.
 
I voted yes if the horse is overweight, but there is cold and there is cold. We actively do this, and allow them to drop a little too much so that they can go into spring/summer lean. Our natives are only fed hay to maintenence weight which means that they have to use more of the energy to keep themselves warm and so naturally drop weight. We have had no incidence of laminitis since following this regime (in previously prone ponies and one very susceptible horse) and the one pony with a sweet itch like condition has never worn or needed a rug since the first winter we did this, he had to wear one 24/7/365 before this. The horses (and ponies if needed) are rugged as required in appropriate rugs and again fed maintenence hay but with hard feed if needed, all live out 24/7/365.

From my own experience this has worked and is far better for them, our horses are not worked very often as we simply do not have the time, they run as a herd on a large acreage but get very little extra exercise. This works for us but if I thought that one was in need of extra then they would get it. We came across this purely by accident due to circumstances following a non avoidable move but the benefits have been worth it.
 
Overweight? why not try exercise! even 10 minutes is better than nothing, if the horse is roughed off yes reduce its food and leave out, but be carefull this can be a way to upset a horses mind. reduced food left out and cold = messed up brain!

I would NEVER advise on purpose to allow a horse to get cold.
 
Wagtail said:
I think it is lazy horsemanship to let horses get fat over summer and then leave them to shiver it off over winter. And yes, quite a few people do that. Cant be bothered to muzzle or restrict grazing in the summer, and can't be bothered to exercise them more to get it off. Why bother when they can sit back and let them shiver it off? Better than bothering with all that rug changing malarky and an excellent excuse for anyone who accuses them of being cruel leaving their horses out in the cold and rain, shivering.
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I sort of agree with this but have to say that since we have controlled ours more over winter they havent piled weight on in the summer the way they used to, although we do, I suppose, restrict grazing in the sense of being aware which fields have to be avoided for certain (potentially obese) ponies. The only thing we don't do is exercise, as well over half are unbroken it isn't an issue, they still get attention, health checks twice daily, pulses checked daily etc, grooming and rugs removed and refitted so it isn't because we are lazy. If one were to become too heavy then the grazing would be restricted, we haven't had to do this for 3 years now, no more muzzles or bare paddocks with miserable ponies, they are much happier.
 
Wagtail said:
I think it is lazy horsemanship to let horses get fat over summer and then leave them to shiver it off over winter. And yes, quite a few people do that. Cant be bothered to muzzle or restrict grazing in the summer, and can't be bothered to exercise them more to get it off. Why bother when they can sit back and let them shiver it off? Better than bothering with all that rug changing malarky and an excellent excuse for anyone who accuses them of being cruel leaving their horses out in the cold and rain, shivering.
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Do you not think you are ranting here slightly. Do you actually know people who are like this, I assume it is no one on here.
 
Amymay sumef it up perfectly.....I let mine use their weight to help keep their weight down but I won't let them stand there and shiver as that can lead to colic problems......
 
Dolcé;11062963 said:
I voted yes if the horse is overweight, but there is cold and there is cold. We actively do this, and allow them to drop a little too much so that they can go into spring/summer lean. Our natives are only fed hay to maintenence weight which means that they have to use more of the energy to keep themselves warm and so naturally drop weight. We have had no incidence of laminitis since following this regime (in previously prone ponies and one very susceptible horse) and the one pony with a sweet itch like condition has never worn or needed a rug since the first winter we did this, he had to wear one 24/7/365 before this. The horses (and ponies if needed) are rugged as required in appropriate rugs and again fed maintenence hay but with hard feed if needed, all live out 24/7/365.

From my own experience this has worked and is far better for them, our horses are not worked very often as we simply do not have the time, they run as a herd on a large acreage but get very little extra exercise. This works for us but if I thought that one was in need of extra then they would get it. We came across this purely by accident due to circumstances following a non avoidable move but the benefits have been worth it.
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Your management tallies with mine. I try to leave out 24/7, in a herd, in a large field. They are constantly walking up one hill or down another and continually forage and interact. These things are critical to me. We suffer in a year like this when the grass will not stop growing and so they will come in to get them off the grass for part of the day and so that they get hay in their bellies rather than just grass.

Mine will be leaner after the Winter than before as the grass isn't growing. I think it tallies with appropriate metabolic changes which occur when there is less daylight and less carbs around.
I like the fact that mine also eat different herbs & supplements naturally at different times of the year. Currently rosehips and being consumed whenever they can, soon it will be nettles.

Like you I have not had any laminitis ever (aside from a 34 yr old cushings pony, years ago - who was very trim and who lived on a concrete yard)
 
I put my hand up to having a podgy pony!

Mels is a 'live on fresh air' good doer, and as such is managed with the idea of allowing her to be cooler but never cold.
She tucks up, looks miserable and has in the past colic'd when she is cold.

As she is retired, ridden exercise isnt an option, but we do go out in hand as often as possible, even if it is just round the sheep to check on them for 15mins.

I keep her clipped in winter as she grows a massive coat, sweats when rugged but is cold over her back and then is very lame! I keep her rugs as minimal as I can, but I would never let her be cold!

I feel it is really quite cruel to let a horse/pony shiver. I dont mean a pony looking like a pompom, scowling at the gate because its a bit nippy, I mean unrugged out int he driving rain and cold of winter without adequate shelter etc.
 
In my opinion, I think its perfectly fine if they are not clipped out and need to lose the weight or if they are clipped only leaving the rugs off for a short period of time - definetely not at night time when the tempertures will be lower than that in the day
 
I think its more cruel to have an obese horse and the damage that does than leaving it cold without a rug. Ive never had a fatty type so Its never been an issue, my issue is deciding what rug the wimpy horse will wear each day and feeding the dammn thing!
Exceptions such as old ill etc then yes its cruel leaving it un rugged
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
However, who on here is going to admit that THEY have overweight horses/ponies :D
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me!! i have the ginger nut who was a previous fatty and is very good at piling on the pounds seemingly overnight, he is a welshx so grows a decent enough coat to stay unrugged unless we have days and days of rain with no chance to dry off. I also now have daughters connie who is a bit on the large side, she came to me that way and i have struggled to get any weight off her over the summer, i will use the winter to get her down to an acceptable weight and then maintain it.
I don't have a problem with letting their weight fluctuate a little, emphasis on 'little' i don't agree with them coming out of winter skin and bone but i'm happy to have them lose a little.

I like to rug according to the individual horses need rather than follow a 'blanket' rule;)

eta: i don't let any of them shiver,that is not good management imo
 
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Letting a horse shiver off excess weight is a lot less cruel than letting it become laminitic.

But leaving it out with no shelter and no protection irrespective of the weather is cruel - and probably doesn't do much for its health either, which rather makes a mockery of the healthy weight loss argument.
 
I hate the term "let him shiver some fat off" i don't tell fat people to stand outside without their coat to lose weight.
i don't think its an acceptable method at all.
i do have a fat horse and am doing everything i can to get the weight off but she will be rugged up
 
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