Is it just me…

[CorvusCorax]

Almost as if when a dog is focused on something/has a job to do/is occupied, it might lessen his insecurities and he might feel more comfortable and confident in a social situation?

Not everyone is skilled or has the time and energy enough to do full scale training in a public place, to my mind carrying or playing with a toy is a good enough occupation.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Almost as if when a dog is focused on something/has a job to do/is occupied, it might lessen his insecurities and he might feel more comfortable and confident in a social situation?

Not everyone is skilled or has the time and energy enough to do full scale training in a public place, to my mind carrying or playing with a toy is a good enough occupation.

Like me putting an apple in my pigeon hole in the staff room on my first day so I had an excuse to go in without looking like a mug! Yes! ?

We we’re tooled up-all the gear and no idea! Not true, actually, we spent insane amounts on trainers then finally found someone who really helped-no surprises, a gun dog trainer/springer owner. The game bag was handy for the occasional oops rabbit/cold game training.

 

[Goldenstar]

Reading the replies, I’m wondering if it’s dog related. Our lab constantly has an object, it can be anything but he always looks for something to carry. I don’t take it from him but could I’d need be.
He will actively look for something to carry of called or if someone turns up

That’s Dram he has to find something he has a Sally stoat in fact he was several he loves those stoats

 

[brighteyes]

A dog holding a remote-control for a little buggy-car and steering it avidly round a small track popped into my head - am I alone?

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

A dog holding a remote-control for a little buggy-car and steering it avidly round a small track popped into my head - am I alone?

Brig’s favourite thing in the whole world ever was remote control cars. He streaked off one day, we heard the noise, thank god he didn’t catch it! Hilarious!

 

[Clodagh]

A dog holding a remote-control for a little buggy-car and steering it avidly round a small track popped into my head - am I alone?

Oh I want to see that. ?

 

[cbmcts]

On that basis, will the rescue potentially resource guard as he or she has never been taught to give up toys/the bed etc?

IME, noting that I'm usually working with Rotts -a notoriously 'guardy' breed- in rescue that are also usually mismanaged at best or abused, it is very easy to cause conflict and resource guarding by insisting on always being able to remove something from a dogs mouth. In fairness, if you tried to take my food, there is a very good chance I'll stab you with my fork! You can and should train a dog to drop or leave which is always my preference to sticking my hand in their mouth usually by doing a swap for something of higher value. I see a lot of dogs where it's become a battle to prove a point that you should be able to remove food bowls, toys, stolen items etc and the dog becomes defensive very quickly. Not great especially if they feel the need to defend themselves. I tend to train a dog to drop/leave for a great treat and/or lots of praise and then remove the dog before I pick up the item I don't want them to have. Dogs that I've had from pups/rehomed from 'good' homes are less of an issue but I still don't routinely take stuff from them just because I can! In an emergency, I can usually stick my hand in their gob, to remove something dangerous and keep my limb but I suspect that is the element of surprise

When it comes to toys, I work on natural consequences. If a dog wants me to play, they have to cooperate. Want me to throw their ball? Drop it at my feet then. Play raggy? I stop the game if it gets too rough. Don't try and take away the toy, just ignore them. Everything is about avoiding a stand off while still getting the dog to do what it needs to do.

 

[Clodagh]

. Don't try and take away the toy, just ignore them. Everything is about avoiding a stand off while still getting the dog to do what it needs to do.

It sounds like being married. Make them think it’s their idea.

One thing in the Dog Listener book she said dogs are very much like humans and their first response to any request is ‘what’s in it for me?’.

 

[CorvusCorax]

A dog will only ever do what it thinks will improve its position/life.

 

[SAujla]

Almost as if when a dog is focused on something/has a job to do/is occupied, it might lessen his insecurities and he might feel more comfortable and confident in a social situation?

Not everyone is skilled or has the time and energy enough to do full scale training in a public place, to my mind carrying or playing with a toy is a good enough occupation.

So when Clover is feeling anxious she will immediately find a stick and start eating it, being in groups of dogs is her biggest trigger

 

[palo1]

Interesting! I was always taught to teach a young dog that I could, if needed, remove anything from them - obviously trained to a command - drop it/leave it. I am happy to do swapsies or just the basic command. I've never really had any issues with that even with rescue dogs but that has meant that generally if my dogs have got something like a toy then I haven't ever really needed to take it. The being able to is only for toxic stuff or emergencies. I haven't really had a dog that wanted to carry something a lot but as we are busy moving house and spending time at our new place I have noticed Red dog being much more engaged with picking up and chewing sticks in the garden. I guess he is aware of general change and dealing with that!! It has meant that he has also been keen to play fetch and drop games - usually he is not that interested. I haven't ever considered that behaviour in relation to confidence.

 

[paisley]

Perhaps its a first step in confidence building?

Lots of peoples dogs here look like they've been trained /accustomed to giving up a resource if asked, mine wouldnt dream of chuntering about having a toy or food removed, and I would be amazed if he did. But thats dogs in their established homes.

However, in the same way I'd wait for a nervous horse to be comfortable in sharing his personal space (eg, going into his box when eating), maybe a rehomed dog needs time to be confident in sharing a temporary high value resource with you by giving up a favourite toy- to me that shows the dog has a bit of trust built in you.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Continually whipping things away from an underconfident dog can make it unstable and undermines the relationship/creates possession as SD says.

.

I wasn't suggesting continually whipping things away from a dog. I train pups to allow me to take/give me things by giving the object back when I've had a look at it. I am wary of training 'swapsies' after I got my hand trapped in a Rottweiler's mouth with nothing to swap for. Fortunately she was a lovely natured dog and although she locked her jaw she didn't close her teeth. I tickled her upper palette and she spat my hand out looking horrified.
When the training is in place, which with pups doesn't usually take long, it only needs reinforcing occasionally but it can be a life-saver. Many, many years ago my landlady had a little terrier, about 12 months old. She had told her 12 yr old daughter never to touch the dog's food and didn't do so herself.
Then the dog got a bone stuck across its lower jaw, wedged in its teeth. Neither of them knew what to do, other than panic, as the dog was growling. I picked up the dog, stuck it under my arm opened its mouth with one hand and prised the bone out. I was so used to taking things off our Labs that it never occurred to me not to deal with problem, and although it could be a bit snappy, the dog was either so grateful to be rescued or so surprised that I'd done it that it didn't even warn me off with a growl. If that dog had been trained to give up 'treasure', the incident would have been much easier for the owner to deal with.

 

[CorvusCorax]

If there is nothing in it for the dog when you initially start training an out (because I said so) you can create resource guarding.

I'm not sure how much repeating anecdotes about how we get stuff off our own well rounded dogs in stable pet homes speaks to the original question (possession/object control and social confidence).
If you have trained a good release command, great, not everyone has the skills or timing or presence to do that and some dogs are harder to train than others due to genetics/previous training.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

If there is nothing in it for the dog when you initially start training an out (because I said so) you can create resource guarding.

.

There are several ways of rewarding a dog, especially a pup. And no, it's not so easy to train an older dog into your ways, hence getting my hand trapped in the Rottweiler's
mouth.
If, for example, I knock a glass onto floor as my dog is eating his tea, the glass breaks and I think it possible that a piece has fallen into the dog's dish, I need to be able get the dish away from the dog and don't want to add a dog bite into the disaster. So I train all my dogs to give up anything I ask for, by one means or another.

 

[skinnydipper]

One of the dogs I adopted was a food resource guarder at the time of adoption. I have mentioned her before, this was her 5th home due to various problems.

She was guarding because she was anxious around food, too worried to eat, afraid it would be taken from her by person or other dog? - who knows.

Trying to remove her food would have tipped her completely over the edge.

She learned to relax around food because
a) I didn't take it from her once I had given it to her
b) no dog allowed to bother another when eating.

I do play the leave it/ take it game with treats. Reward by allowing the dog to take the original treat or keep that and reward with a better one.

 

[CorvusCorax]

There are several ways of rewarding a dog, especially a pup. And no, it's not so easy to train an older dog into your ways, hence getting my hand trapped in the Rottweiler's
mouth.
If, for example, I knock a glass onto floor as my dog is eating his tea, the glass breaks and I think it possible that a piece has fallen into the dog's dish, I need to be able get the dish away from the dog and don't want to add a dog bite into the disaster. So I train all my dogs to give up anything I ask for, by one means or another.

Then I guess none of what I am saying applies to you, your situation or how you train your dogs

 

[skinnydipper]

Bear will refuse to give up his ball for me to throw it again so needs persuading. He will carry his ball back from the park but sometimes drops it in favour of sniffing.

Bear could be trying to tell you something. Like maybe he doesn't want to chase after the ball and would prefer to just chill and sniff.

I think its okay to give dogs some choice, we don't have to control everything they do.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Bear could be trying to tell you something. Like maybe he doesn't want to chase after the ball and would prefer to just chill and sniff.

I think its okay to give dogs some choice, we don't have to control everything they do.

Forgive my bluntness, but you don’t know my dog, I do. He harasses me until I take the ball, half pass across my path, stopping me walking until I take the ball. For him, it’s part of the game, particularly having ‘competed’ with his brother for who can get the ball first for years. He knows fine well he can go off and explore would he rather. After 3 retrieves in the shade in the rough today, I insisted he wandered off to do his thing but then he came back and waited for another retrieve. In the woods, there is no retrieving and I have to insist he stops dancing at me and goes off.

 

[skinnydipper]

Forgive my bluntness, but you don’t know my dog, I do. He harasses me until I take the ball, half pass across my path, stopping me walking until I take the ball. For him, it’s part of the game, particularly having ‘competed’ with his brother for who can get the ball first for years. He knows fine well he can go off and explore would he rather. After 3 retrieves in the shade in the rough today, I insisted he wandered off to do his thing but then he came back and waited for another retrieve. In the woods, there is no retrieving and I have to insist he stops dancing at me and goes off.

My apologies.

I thought you said he refused to give up his ball and would drop it in favour of sniffing.

I don't know him so my comment was based on the information that you gave.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Then I guess none of what I am saying applies to you, your situation or how you train your dogs

Probably not, nor to you really, as you keep all the kibble in your pocket and dole it out as you train

 

[CorvusCorax]

Probably not, nor to you really, as you keep all the kibble in your pocket and dole it out as you train

Yes, for my one personal dog that I train.
My older dogs are retired/get room service and I work with/observe many others, there's many roads to Rome.....

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Yes, for my one personal dog that I train.
My older dogs are retired/get room service and I work with/observe many others, there's many roads to Rome.....

Indeed! I don't tell others how/what to train their dogs, I simply say what works for me and why. Others can take it or leave it, as they see fit.

 

[skinnydipper]

To get back to Clodagh's original post.

‘If a dog can control a toy then it increases their confidence in real life situations’.

I also think allowing dogs some choice, where it is safe to do so, gives dogs confidence.

I decide the venue for our walk, I often ask the big girl which path she would like to take.

We don't have to control everything dogs do, sometimes they need to think for themselves and not rely on owners to tell them every move to make.

 

[Bellaboo18]

??
Not read all the thread but, I managed a DT centre a while ago. I lost count of the people that came in with a dog that had shown aggressive behaviour that said, I don't know what happened, we've always taken away his food so he got used to it being removed and then last time we took it away, he did x.
You're teaching your dog to guard the item you keep removing. Give it to them and walk away, don't create an issue.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

??
Not read all the thread but, I managed a DT centre a while ago. I lost count of the people that came in with a dog that had shown aggressive behaviour that said, I don't know what happened, we've always taken away his food so he got used to it being removed and then last time we took it away, he did x.
You're teaching your dog to guard the item you keep removing. Give it to them and walk away, don't create an issue.

The sensible idea is that you then give the food back to the dog. I certainly haven't taught any dog to guard.

 

[Bellaboo18]

The sensible idea is that you then give the food back to the dog. I certainly haven't taught any dog to guard.

The people I dealt with gave the dog the food back. They've still been deprived of it for a moment.

 

[Clodagh]

Pepper spangle was a funny one, I can quite see how she would get guardy. She was generally a very sweet, submissive little dog. When mine have their bedtime chews I sometimes have a goodnight chat. I never touch what they are doing but just talk about our day. Scout loves it. Pep would just sit quietly with her chew but you could just tell, and I’m no expert, that she’d rather I wasn’t there. A little bit stiff, a little bit side eye. Very minor. After day 1 I realised she just wanted me to give her the chew in her run and bog off.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

??
Not read all the thread but, I managed a DT centre a while ago. I lost count of the people that came in with a dog that had shown aggressive behaviour that said, I don't know what happened, we've always taken away his food so he got used to it being removed and then last time we took it away, he did x.
You're teaching your dog to guard the item you keep removing. Give it to them and walk away, don't create an issue.

Well having been to DT centre fundraising events, where dogs were expected to attend with their owners and where the organisers seemed to have either no idea of how to make dogs .feel comfortable or have forgotten that they were expecting dogs, I really don't feel the need to justify my successful, over 60 yrs and many dogs of various breeds, training methods to you, or to take your advice about training.

 

[CorvusCorax]

PAS if you aren't doing the things that other people are saying could prove problematic and if what you do is working for you, is there any reason why you are being so defensive? I don't think Bella was addressing her post to you personally? It was just her own experience as these are all our own experiences. She isn't asking you to justify anything as far as I can see and neither was I.