ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Should we stop putting horses at risk by using them for crowd control?
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Is it time to stop using Police Horses?
- Thread starter ycbm
- Start date
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Yes.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
I’m split about this. Work in the security sector and the sheer presence of four massive police horses on a crowd changes the dynamics very quickly and people do think twice and I’ve seen if very effectively dispersed a crowd with just maybe 8/10 appear all at once. People genuinely crap themselves when these massive horses appear. It also helps our cause to have them out and about on the roads and being seen.
However the equestrian in me wishes people wouldn’t be so cruel to them doing their jobs.
However the equestrian in me wishes people wouldn’t be so cruel to them doing their jobs.
stangs
Well-Known Member
Title of this thread =/= OP. Police horses aren't just used for crowd control.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Things changed for me when machetes became weapon du jour.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
But if they don't do crowd control how on earth can anyone justify the cost? Ceremonial duties when we haven't the funds to investigate burglaries properly? Patrolling the streets when bikes and drones don't eat, pee their beds and need vets?
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Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
So you think it’s a cost thing??
Lurfy
Well-Known Member
Yes, time to stop using police horses.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
By your reasoning we shouldn’t have a police force then as it’s putting people at risk 
Should we be out on the streets with our own horses? I mean we could be attacked? Many horse riders have been in altercations with people and been assaulted, horses are stabbed just being in fields, human beings can be cruel without an animal doing a job.
Should we be out on the streets with our own horses? I mean we could be attacked? Many horse riders have been in altercations with people and been assaulted, horses are stabbed just being in fields, human beings can be cruel without an animal doing a job.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I think there are huge welfare issues with it. And if you remove the welfare issues inherent in crowd control, it becomes a cost/benefit thing.
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Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
I think there are huge welfare issues with pretty much everything to do with humans keeping animals in general. So do we just stop having animals?
As I said I’m split but we are just taking more and more jobs away from animals and turning to tech and I think that’s a splippery slope, tech can be corrupted, hacked, infiltrated. An animal trained and looked after by a person cannot.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
By your reasoning we shouldn’t have a police force then as it’s putting people at risk
Should we be put on the streets with our own horses? I mean we could be attacked? Many horse riders have been in altercations with people and been assaulted, horses are stabbed just being in fields, human beings can be cruel without an animal doing a job.
I find your response a bit bizarre and unrelated to anything I wrote.
People can choose to put themselves at risk and thankfully people in many professions will do that.
Horses can't choose.
Would you take your own horse to a demonstration that he was there for precisely because of the likelihood of violence?
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Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Re the welfare side, while they get very well looked after a now retired equine vet that I used to use was vet to one of the local big police horse centres. He said he was amazed at just how much lameness there was in these horses who rarely go above a walk on routine patrols.
The Fuzzy Furry
Getting old disgracefully
Ycbm, coming at a tangent, you say horses can't refuse....
Neither can they in any activity, racing, sj etc etc, particularly at lower levels when inexperienced or forceful owners or trainers are at work....
Neither can they in any activity, racing, sj etc etc, particularly at lower levels when inexperienced or forceful owners or trainers are at work....
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Of course you are correct, but perhaps not relevant to this discussion.
None of those activities require knowingly putting a horse in situations where they are there precisely because people are likely to be violent.
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stangs
Well-Known Member
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maya2008
Well-Known Member
Military war dogs, police horses… mostly loved and cared for. Some element of risk to the job. Relatively low numbers.
Cows, pigs, sheep, intensive poultry farming. Often horrific conditions for their entire short lives. Large numbers.
I’m just maybe a bit too straightforward in my thinking. If we’re going to complain about animal treatment, surely we should start with the ones whose lives are the worst, in the largest numbers, rather than just the ones we actually see the most, if that makes sense?
Cows, pigs, sheep, intensive poultry farming. Often horrific conditions for their entire short lives. Large numbers.
I’m just maybe a bit too straightforward in my thinking. If we’re going to complain about animal treatment, surely we should start with the ones whose lives are the worst, in the largest numbers, rather than just the ones we actually see the most, if that makes sense?
GypsGal1718
Well-Known Member
I agree, people just forget animals that get eaten. I do think police horses are at risk and should be reconsidered
maisie06
Well-Known Member
yes - no need for it in this day and age, but keep police horses for visible patrols on commons etc
YourValentine
Well-Known Member
Absolutely
Starting with chickens. Poultry welfare for anything other than organic is disgraceful. Even the supposedly free range, cage free.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
I think there should be better protection for the horses in the way of stab proof rug at least and maybe face shield
SheriffTruman
Well-Known Member
Absolutely true, but two wrongs don't make a right. We can easily abolish both forms of animal cruelty (or misuse) at once, if we want as a society.
I don't eat meat, and only eggs from our resident chickens, so try to contribute to that. It's an easy way and one little step. I do believe police horses are well-cared for, but they shouldn't be in this line of work. We have other ways to do police work, and the humans who do it, have chosen to do it theirselves.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Not really when you think large scale. I mean if you apply the logic you are using in a generalised form which is what I’m doing then there is potential violence towards horses in everything.
Not just watching on a screen and being down in the situation I’ve seen things very differently from what you see on a tv screen.
People have always brought weapons to things, that’s the human nature element in this. Hooligans will be so and having worked at many football matches and such I’ve seen the difference they make first hand.
teapot
Well-Known Member
The cost thing is interesting because it always was that one mounted copper was equivalent to three or four on the ground impact wise. One horse versus three salaries…
There’s also the public engagement aspect which you don’t get from using a bike. Local soft diplomacy type work is priceless.
Look at the breakdown of work for the Met mounted in 2023: 53.9% neighbourhood patrols, football 21.6%, ceremonial 17.5%, public order 6.9%.
Source: https://x.com/mettaskforce/status/1755257376398004395?s=46
There’s also the public engagement aspect which you don’t get from using a bike. Local soft diplomacy type work is priceless.
Look at the breakdown of work for the Met mounted in 2023: 53.9% neighbourhood patrols, football 21.6%, ceremonial 17.5%, public order 6.9%.
Source: https://x.com/mettaskforce/status/1755257376398004395?s=46
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ROMANY 1959
Well-Known Member
I was a weekend groom for the North Wales police horses,(Wrexham)
till they were disbanded and sent to Manchester force. They were well looked after, had turnout at night, their riders had been with them for years, had a lovely indoor school and all weather turnout for winter , my son used to come and groom them, he fell in love with a big grey, and when they disbanded, the older ones were retired, to new homes, my son wanted the grey, but he went with his rider to retire
till they were disbanded and sent to Manchester force. They were well looked after, had turnout at night, their riders had been with them for years, had a lovely indoor school and all weather turnout for winter , my son used to come and groom them, he fell in love with a big grey, and when they disbanded, the older ones were retired, to new homes, my son wanted the grey, but he went with his rider to retire
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
I am far more comfortable with putting horses at risk ‘in the line of duty’ than I am with the abhorrent videos on another thread showing horses being ‘trained’ for dressage. I would ban anything that puts horses at risk for sport or entertainment before I would ban using them for work that contributes to public safety.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Its the tip of the iceberg really, Should we use police dogs, dogs for the disabled, guide dogs, search and rescue dogs...Should we continue horse sports? Dressage, eventing, show jumping.
Should we even ride horses. Its a massive, massive subject.
Should we even ride horses. Its a massive, massive subject.
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
The public engagement thing goes both ways though- if people associate horses with police, and the main time they see horses are police/cavalry, it can create negative associations with horses also, which isn't necessarily good for the wider equestrian community.
I think in terms of protests etc, the police should work more towards a de-escalation model, rather than the current model which often winds up crowds and incites violence in itself. I think there are all sorts of issues with using horses to try and instil fear into crowds.
I think in terms of protests etc, the police should work more towards a de-escalation model, rather than the current model which often winds up crowds and incites violence in itself. I think there are all sorts of issues with using horses to try and instil fear into crowds.
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
Guide dogs and assistance dogs aren't generally put in harm's way though. It's not just about the concept of a "working animal" but the concept of putting that animal in actively dangerous situations.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Yes I understand that but they are very often attacked by other dogs and are not allowed to display natural behaviour when working. Police dogs and search dogs are put in danger during their work. Its really not black and white.