Is it unusual to see certain colours on "big" horses??

[princess+dude]

i have a 17.2hh dun gelding. would add a pic but not sure how

 

[Sarah1]

My sister had the most beauitful dun mare many, many moons ago - she was 15.3hh at 4 years old.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Years ago I had a 17h red roan, strange looking thing, black head, mane and tail, red/white flecked coat, black knees/hocks. Awesome hunter but nasty nappy B in the summer.

I cannot stand seeing the adverts that say skewbald/piebald TBxID !

 

[lea840]

He's a stocky MW too. Know nothing of his breeding but i had him from a 4 year old (he's 8 now) and he was imported from Romania. He's also got an 'oil slick' type marking down one shoulder which makes him even more unusual! As a size comparison my stepdad standing next to him is 6'3! He's the nicest natured horse although a bit simple at times!

These show his shoulder marking

What a lovely looking boy! He looks beautiful

 

[starsky]

Not many big roans about, especially bay and strawberry. !

One of mine is a 16.2hh strawberry roan. I have never seen another one like him. He doesn't compete anymore, but when he did lots of people used to recognise him from show to show....

 

[scrunchie]

I think Doris is a sooty palomino.

Not entirely sure though. She's 16hh.

 

[Stinkbomb]

You hardly ever see Silver in larger horses. Its much more popular in miniatures. I dont know ANY larger horses that are silver!!

 

[ester]

starsky what breeding is your boy? I don't know much about the genetics but he looks a bit like the 'varnish roan' that you can get with appys I think.

 

[RainbowDash]

Hi all,

Just out of interest how common is a coloured (full) Shire (with blue eyes)? Unfortunately I didn't take a picture of him but he's the most beautiful horse I've ever seen

 

[jinglejoys]

http://www.angrovestud.com/
http://www.echohillsporthorses.com/mares.html
Some colour to be seen in these

 

[starsky]

starsky what breeding is your boy? I don't know much about the genetics but he looks a bit like the 'varnish roan' that you can get with appys I think.

He is a bit of a mix Mum was Hannovarian x Welsh and Dad was Warmblood x Apaloosa, so yes that is where he gets his colouring. His dad is liver chestnut with white spots over his bum and no roan. Paddy has no spots though and goes pink in summer

 

[TeamChaser]

My 16.1hh ISH is roan (I think that's what you'd call him?!) Note the white splodgy bum and he has quite a bit of white in mane and tail. Reminds me of a pony I learnt to ride on - all of 12.2hh! He's my overgrown pony

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

There are a couple of big warmblood stallions out and about at the mo I do think there are more larger stallions carrying the dilute gene as it has got a bit more fashionable but there are older types the kinsky horses for example.
http://www.treliverstud.co.uk/treliver decanter.htm
http://www.lynairesportshorses.com/stallions_2/legrande/
I think the dun gene is primarily seen in pony type breeding.
The roaning you see in some of the bigger drafty types is down to the sabino phenotype I think and is mainly seen in Clydies but you do see it elsewhere. I think you can get this in some warmbloods as well, I saw a beautiful KWPN for sale the other day which was to all intents and purposes a bay roan with a white face.
I think you will see more and more colourful big horses as more is known about colour genes now and it does appear to be quite fashionable.
Oh and I think it has been mentioned but you get knabstruppers which are big and spotty

 

[Izzwall]

I had a 16.1hh Palomino IDXTB, was the worst 1st horse ever and I nearly gave up on him about a million times but we got through our issues and he was the most amazing horse ever even though he nearly killed me a few times! Unfortunately even though he was a pretty colour, his conformation was a complete mess and 4 years ago when I was only 16/17, made the tough decision to have him pts. Which I got a lot of stick for as he was only 14 years old but he had all sorts of problems ranging from kissing spines to arthritis. I do miss my big Ed and I'm sure he's creating havoc in horsey heaven

 

[spottydottypony]

I have a 18hh Appaloosa gelding!! He has all the Appy markings but is very large, he is bay with blanket spots

 

[ausipaliboi]

My boy is 16hh (though his height can increase up to 17hh when faced with a horse eating monster )

He is TB x QH though the only part of him that is QH is his colour, the rest of him is all TB. When I first bought him my farrier (also a racehorse trainer) looked through his papers and said he could race him and wanted to take him to the track, just to cause a stir

 

[Izzwall]

Not quite sure what colour this thing is supposed to be or breed for that matter!!!! All I know is he was supposed to be 14.2hh but is still growing at 15.2hh!

 

[Kallibear]

I suppose it's because a) the unusual colours come from ponies originally and b) many are recessive, making them less likely to be passed on than a 'normal' colour. Cross two palamino's and you've only got 25% change of getting another palamino (i think)

That and coloured horse (patchy and unusual) where thought of as 'common' until not that many years ago, so people (esp those who breed big horses for 'sports') didn't bred them. Coloured are becoming more common nowadays and I expect the more unusual colours to become so too eventually.

Measles: PLEASE can I have your horse. I soooo badly want a big dun!

 

[SavingGrace]

Anyone know what the bit is in the 3rd pic down?

Looks like a peewee bit

 

[littlescallywag]

FWB : its a pee wee bit

 

[FabioandFreddy]

Yes - is a Peewee. He goes really well in it - have struggled to find anything dressage legal that he'll go as well in!

 

[Shazzababs]

I suppose it's because a) the unusual colours come from ponies originally and b) many are recessive, making them less likely to be passed on than a 'normal' colour. Cross two palamino's and you've only got 25% change of getting another palamino (i think)

That isn't quite right. If you have (for example) a bay horse with 2 bay genes and a palomino with 2 palomino genes, and assume that the bay is dominant and the palomino recessive. The first generation is as follows.

PP + BB = PB, or PB or PB or PB = All horses will be bay, but all will carry the gene.

If you then take one of those 1st generations and cross with a palomino:

PP + PB = PP, PB, PP, PB = 50% chance of a palomino, all carry the gene.

If you take 2 horses with 1 Palomino gene:

PB + PB = PP, PB, BP, BB = 25% of a Palomino and 75% chance of one palomino gene.

If you take 2 with one palomino gene between them:

PB + BB = PB, BB, BB, BB = 0% of a palomino and only 25% chance of one gene.

So to get a good chance of a palomino you need to breed a palomino mare with a stallion which carries the gene.

I expect the dominance of the different colour genes is more complex than this, but you get the idea.

 

[Amaranta]

As a total guess, I think DUN comes from connie/highland type PONIES. If you cross a pony with a horse (to get a bigger dun) you end up with a small horse-sized dun, NOT a big horse sized dun! To get a big horse sized dun, you need to cross it again with a horse, but that knocks the chances of the dilute gene being passed on and therefore big duns can (and do happen) but it is not a common sight! Sadly.
I knew of a lovely big dun, (17hands +) he was Czechoslovakian warmblood I think. Was evented, but he got too carried away with XC... breaks failed too many times to be trusted. Think he went dressaging.

Off topic but Connies are actually buckskins which means their dilution comes from the cream gene, which is the gene which also causes palomino, cremello and perlino. The cream gene does not exist in Highlands so they are Duns which is a totally different gene.

 

[Amaranta]

That isn't quite right. If you have (for example) a bay horse with 2 bay genes and a palomino with 2 palomino genes, and assume that the bay is dominant and the palomino recessive. The first generation is as follows.

PP + BB = PB, or PB or PB or PB = All horses will be bay, but all will carry the gene.

If you then take one of those 1st generations and cross with a palomino:

PP + PB = PP, PB, PP, PB = 50% chance of a palomino, all carry the gene.

If you take 2 horses with 1 Palomino gene:

PB + PB = PP, PB, BP, BB = 25% of a Palomino and 75% chance of one palomino gene.

If you take 2 with one palomino gene between them:

PB + BB = PB, BB, BB, BB = 0% of a palomino and only 25% chance of one gene.

So to get a good chance of a palomino you need to breed a palomino mare with a stallion which carries the gene.

I expect the dominance of the different colour genes is more complex than this, but you get the idea.

Not quite right

A surefire way to get a palomino is to breed Chesnut (Red no cream) with a Cremello (Red + 2 cream) if you breed two palominos (Red + 1 cream) you could well get a cremello.

The same principle would apply to Buckskin, just substitute the red for agouti (bay) gene and cross a Bay (2 x Agouti) to a Perlino (Agouti + 2 cream), but just to complicate the matter further, bay horses can also carry the red gene, though they would only have one copy and in order to be chestnut they need two.

So a Bay horse carrying red (1 x Agouti + 1 x red) could be put to a cremello and produce either a palomino or a buckskin, depending on whether they pass on the Agouti or the Red gene.

Hope this makes sense

 

[Alphamare]

Actually palomino is a creme gene on a chestnut base and if you put a palomino to a bay you get a 50% chance of a dilute! 25% chance of palomino and 25% chance of buckskin. Which is what everyone here is calling dun! Dun is a completely different gene entirely.

If you cross a palomino with a palomino you have two creme genes in play and could end up with a cremello! A buckskin buckskin cross could be Perlino and a buckskin palomino cross will inherit at least one creme gene to be any one of the four.

Like the grey gene it's not recessive it just requires on or both parents to have the gene. If the gene is not passed on its NOT recessed and cannot be passed onto that offsprings offspring.

Putting a horse to a double dilute (cremello or Perlino) will Always result in one of the gene being passed on. Putting a chestnut to a cremello will always result in a palomino or potentially anOther cremello.


I have a 17hh buckskin. His mother was bay and his father is a palomino.

 

[Amaranta]

snap Alphamare

 

[Kaylum]

There are a couple of Dun Registered Irish Draughts about.

Regaliaprince

 

[princess+dude]

I hope this has worked....


If so this is my boy. he's 17.2hh ISH x TB x Conny

 

[SKY]

I'm always on the look out for 16hh+ palomino and there don't seem to be many about.

last year i must have seen about a dozen of them, but i am in northern ireland. i love them too, but never used to see much big ones, but last year i seen loads, at sales and shows. also seen them on donedeal.ie

 

[lillith]

In the UK more so - most of the 'unusual' colours here, roan, dun, palomino, buckskin ect are most common in the pony breeds. In the US quarter horses carry cream, dun and roan so part bred and pure bred QH are often more colourful, I believe Morgans and saddlebreds also come in palomino and buckskin though I am not so certain about roan and dun. There are some TB and warmbloods now that carry cream though, Guarunteed Gold is a cremello TB who is now apparently standing at Goldfields stud in Scotland. He will guarantee (oddly enough) either palomino, buckskin, smoky black, cremello, perlino or smoky cream offspring depending on the colour of the mare.