Is no now a dirty word?

[P3LH]

As the title says.

There were quite a lot of pups and adolescents in the park today. A lot of them that we walked past were just being typical cheeky youngsters, e.g barking at other dogs cause over excited, lead lunging , jumping up at passers by to say hello—just the basic ‘needs manners’ stuff but not one owner said no or corrected it.

We then acquired some joiner inners when the dogs were off lead playing with their tennis ball—again, pups and youngsters, and actually considering there were maybe about 10 dogs offlead playing (owners social distancing!) it was all very mild. However when naughty corgi got a bit gobby and chased off after a seagull, the other owners were quite mortified that I shouted ‘no’ (she stopped in her tracks and skulked back—there’s a first for everything!) and one couple with a pair of puggle pups were even more mortified that when big blue Merle boy was getting a bit too rowdy and rough with a young labrador, I took him by the collar and made him lie down next to me to cool off a bit.

I just see a generation of no manners, over exuberant, pushy dogs ahead. Granted there were some, such as the person with the young lab who was quite lovely, who was clearly using positive reinforcement only...but I couldn’t help but feel like a bit of a fossil as we walked home...

 

[Errin Paddywack]

These days any sort of correction seems to be frowned on. I expect my dogs (and horses) to behave and on the whole they do because I am not afraid to correct them if they don't and I don't mean by hitting them. My mum was always ruled by her dogs because she was afraid they wouldn't love her if she told them off! With dogs it is usually the opposite, they appreciate knowing who is in charge.
We had a great-great aunt, died back in the 1950's at 90. She adopted a terrier that had been very badly treated by a local chap. He used to laugh at her because every chance that dog had it went back to him.
I see far too many disobedient totally spoilt dogs and it is such a shame as everyone's lives would be so much better if they were properly trained.

 

[bonny]

These days any sort of correction seems to be frowned on. I expect my dogs (and horses) to behave and on the whole they do because I am not afraid to correct them if they don't and I don't mean by hitting them. My mum was always ruled by her dogs because she was afraid they wouldn't love her if she told them off! With dogs it is usually the opposite, they appreciate knowing who is in charge.
We had a great-great aunt, died back in the 1950's at 90. She adopted a terrier that had been very badly treated by a local chap. He used to laugh at her because every chance that dog had it went back to him.
I see far too many disobedient totally spoilt dogs and it is such a shame as everyone's lives would be so much better if they were properly trained.

I’ve no idea where I got this from but There is a theory that it doesn’t matter how you treat your dogs as long as you are consistent and I think there is something in that. I know a few shepherds that are very hard on their dogs but at the same time they have a great understanding of each other and the dogs are certainly not traumatised by their treatment. I think a lot of the training with treats is just confusing to a dog.

 

[MrsMozartleto]

Mine will get Oi'd! at irrespective of the audience. Won't be having rude dogs. I get some looks but they see the dog in question isn't harmed, happily comes back, etc., so maybe it'll have some positive effect.

 

[Bellasophia]

I think it’s old school or no school,in my house.
By five months I want to see the absolute basics..a sit,come,stay and absolutely no pull...recall comes a bit later down the line..
In Italy so many use harnesses on every breed....when I suggest a leather collar they worry it will hurt the dogs throat..I show the stop,180degree turn and dog is back behind you ‘without garotting it ‘method ....the lightbulb goes on...
we rarely use treats, but i sometimes carry them,eg if I’m shoe shopping or in a clothes shop trying on.It says well done And dogs are so quiet they are welcome back.

Eg.just today I tried on a dress for my sons wedding..little schnauzer was sat quietly in the dressing room ,no one even knew she was there...but my goodness I’ve slogged for her first year to train her to ignore Joe public and their dogs..She was really dog reactive,flying at many dogs in the early months..so my relentless everydayrules have paid off.
Tough love..huge rewards.

 

[fankino04]

These days any sort of correction seems to be frowned on. I expect my dogs (and horses) to behave and on the whole they do because I am not afraid to correct them if they don't and I don't mean by hitting them. My mum was always ruled by her dogs because she was afraid they wouldn't love her if she told them off! With dogs it is usually the opposite, they appreciate knowing who is in charge.
We had a great-great aunt, died back in the 1950's at 90. She adopted a terrier that had been very badly treated by a local chap. He used to laugh at her because every chance that dog had it went back to him.
I see far too many disobedient totally spoilt dogs and it is such a shame as everyone's lives would be so much better if they were properly trained.

This seems to apply to children too!

 

[MurphysMinder]

I'm in a GSD fb group which is full of people struggling with their dogs behaviour, and in most cases it is because the owners just have no idea of correction. Harnesses are the order of the day, or headcollars , the admin remove posts if you suggest a half check or god forbid a full check chain. My dogs have certainly always known what "no" meant, I had one bitch a few years back and we joked for probably the first 6 months of her life she probably thought her name was No.

 

[fankino04]

A good few years ago I took my boy to a local snow dog meet up, there were about 20 dogs there and not one of them had any many, at one point it took 3 people grabbing a long lead (on a walking belt) to stop one boy dragging his owner off at pace round the park yet I was the one who was chastised for letting my dog off the lead. They all excused their dogs bad behaviour by saying that it's just in the nature of the breed and you have to accept it! Absolutely not, I put a lot of work into recall training with all my dogs, teaching them not to bound up to strangers (human or canine), to walk without pulling etc yet I'm the one who doesn't understand the breed.

 

[fankino04]

I'm in a GSD fb group which is full of people struggling with their dogs behaviour, and in most cases it is because the owners just have no idea of correction. Harnesses are the order of the day, or headcollars , the admin remove posts if you suggest a half check or god forbid a full check chain. My dogs have certainly always known what "no" meant, I had one bitch a few years back and we joked for probably the first 6 months of her life she probably thought her name was No.

Do they all recommend the Julius K9 harness too?

 

[Bellasophia]

fankin and Murphy So true..you are always the baddie until they realize it’s your dogs that are at heel,not pulling,attentive to you and so on.
Many have bewailed that mine “are just puppies...why are they being told what to do,they can be trained later...?“
I say the pup is a sponge that loves to absorb..
Ive often been asked,especially about the schnauzer...”but where is the other dog?(the dervish pup)“.
They are impressed to learn the same quiet dog in their shop IS that pup,just a few months down the training line.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Do they all recommend the Julius K9 harness too?

No in fairness they do advise against the Julius K9, recommend Perfect Fit which is certainly a much better harness, but I just don't understand this trend for harnesses on big powerful dogs.

 

[Bellasophia]

https://www.aosom.it/item/julius-k9-power-pettorina-misura-0-colore-nero~RI3154.0N.html

just what your Belgian shepherd needs!!

 

[P3LH]

The bit that I couldn’t fathom though was, despite them reacting like I had the plague/leprocy, they all kept commenting on ‘ooh I wish mine did x, y or z’ regarding the most basic of obedience and manners as even naughty corgi was on quite good behaviour. Yet none of them said no or pulled their dogs up for being a pain in the arse.

I get some pups just naturally re a challenge though and come ready programmed as such. I really struggled with corgi Sherman tank when she was small, my first post her was about biting as nothing curbed it, and my usual methods were on the back burner as OH was all about the praise approach and I wanted her to feel she had a role in bringing up afore mentioned Sherman tank. It didn’t work, so we went back to my way and she shaped up. She still pushes it though, but I can’t imagine not saying no. Thing is I was really speechless today, as i wouldn’t have said with the exception of two, that any were particularly a challenge. I would say it was all just basic bad manners in the main....but it went on and on. I was surprised how little manners people seem to teach their dogs to have with other dogs too.

One today, with a really lovely pup they told me was part Dutch herder part working line GSD who was a bit pushy and you could tell knew they were a push over, (say no more. They didn’t say no to said five month old for mouthing) kept commenting on my sable boy and when I said he’s nearly ten they joked ‘can’t wait for X to get to that age then!’ I think it was a bit lost on them that he actually took WORK to get like this and didn’t just get older and behave....sable boy has worn the ‘it wasn’t like this in my day’ face all day since we got home!

 

[Bellasophia]

Just put yr pic on large view...your dog is plush,I wanted to get my hands into his coat.Complimenti!

 

[P3LH]

Just put yr pic on large view...your dog is plush,I wanted to get my hands into his coat.Complimenti!

Thank you. He’s very special to me, as they all are, but he came from a line I admired greatly from a small boy—his breeder died not that long after he came to us so that line came to an end. I’m hoping he lives for quite a few more years to come as his parents were 14 and 15, and grandparents got to nearly 17. He is a marvellous fellow though, always has been.

 

[MrsMozartleto]

D2's first word was No... ??

 

[BBP]

I don’t often use no, but I do correct. I guess I give the cue for the alternative action I want, instead of just saying no. So ‘sit’ instead of jumping up, ‘this way’ instead of running off, ‘off’ instead of jumping up. So it tells him what he should do. But I’m from the new lot of fluffy bunny huggers and probably wrong. But just because I don’t say no much doesn’t mean I don’t work my backside off training.

 

[MurphysMinder]

[

One today, with a really lovely pup they told me was part Dutch herder part working line GSD who was a bit pushy and you could tell knew they were a push over, (say no more. They didn’t say no to said five month old for mouthing) kept commenting on my sable boy and when I said he’s nearly ten they joked ‘can’t wait for X to get to that age then!’ I think it was a bit lost on them that he actually took WORK to get like this and didn’t just get older and behave....sable boy has worn the ‘it wasn’t like this in my day’ face all day since we got home![/QUOTE]

Well that combination is going to be a bundle of fun a few months down the line without consistent training !

 

[Annette4]

I wish consequences worked on Dobby (and yes he has even had a smack - on his very well muscled thigh - after biting me). He is just the kind of dog you could beat and he would repeat the behaviour and still love you no matter what. It doesn't seem to matter what I do, he's an arse. I know some is personality and some is my fault for some of the socialisation choices I made mean he is an overly friendly greater who also isn't afraid to square up if someone tells him off for it. Believe me I will not be making the same mistake again and I've cried plenty of times out of sheer frustration with him. It's now about managing him (which includes only being off lead in private hire spaces or his sports, being on a long line at all times for 'off lead' time on walks and only interacting with certain dogs) and I know I've created this.

Fizz and Ginny, a stern no or Oi work but I'm at a loss with his lordship.

 

[P3LH]

I wish consequences worked on Dobby (and yes he has even had a smack - on his very well muscled thigh - after biting me). He is just the kind of dog you could beat and he would repeat the behaviour and still love you no matter what. It doesn't seem to matter what I do, he's an arse. I know some is personality and some is my fault for some of the socialisation choices I made mean he is an overly friendly greater who also isn't afraid to square up if someone tells him off for it. Believe me I will not be making the same mistake again and I've cried plenty of times out of sheer frustration with him. It's now about managing him (which includes only being off lead in private hire spaces or his sports, being on a long line at all times for 'off lead' time on walks and only interacting with certain dogs) and I know I've created this.

Fizz and Ginny, a stern no or Oi work but I'm at a loss with his lordship.

Corgi Sherman tank is like this too, don’t worry. The roughs take even a scene a stern stare or ‘ahem’ as the end of the world, she takes quite a bit more and I have to do my best sergeant major impression to have peace. I seek reassurance from her breeder regularly, who after fifty years knows the line inside out, that I’m not being too harsh...I’m constantly then told I could be even sterner.
We are getting there, but like your chap...she still LOVES to argue back. She causes a lot of grief for my mum who has the dogs when we’re both at work.

As I always say, she’s great, I love her but...she just is a bit of a knobhead at times!

ps she’s a Ginny too, though always Gin, which pathed the way for her KC name of gin&tonic.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I don't understand why it has to be such an either or matter. Whatever happened to the golden mean?
I try to use as few No's as possible, and instead offer alternatives saying what I want my bitch/bitches to do instead. But sometimes it can happen that I use a No, to reinforce that what they're doing is wrong/bad.

I prefer using harnesses on my bitches, but they also have a set of half chokes + leads hanging in my hallway. Sometimes if I want a bit more control, or don't want to fiddle with putting on the harnesses, I use the half chokes.

 

[CorvusCorax]

No, lol.

 

[Annette4]

As I always say, she’s great, I love her but...she just is a bit of a knobhead at times!

ps she’s a Ginny too, though always Gin, which pathed the way for her KC name of gin&tonic.

I suspect what makes it worse is how bloomin talented he is but I can't get him there as we struggle to train. He is a total knobhead but 90% of the time it's from sheer fun loving but every now it ends in nastiness.

She's named after the youngest Wesley, must be a corgi thing being named after alcohol. Jack was Hogan's Hooch hence Jack (Daniels).

 

[Books'n'dogs]

If I never used the word no, or corrected bad behavior, my dogs would most likely not have made it to their senior years. My lovely, nearly 11 year GSD (who is in my avatar) was pronounced a dangerous dog at 9 months by my then vet and he advised me to have her pts; a lot of blood, sweat, and tears were involved in making her the 100% trustworthy dog she is now, her current vet adores her, and she thinks babies and small children are the best invention ever (I don't agree, but I don't tell her that!?).

I feel sorry for the Dutch herder you met, a tragic end could very well be its future if its behavior isn't corrected.

 

[palo1]

The bit that I couldn’t fathom though was, despite them reacting like I had the plague/leprocy, they all kept commenting on ‘ooh I wish mine did x, y or z’ regarding the most basic of obedience and manners as even naughty corgi was on quite good behaviour. Yet none of them said no or pulled their dogs up for being a pain in the arse.

I get some pups just naturally re a challenge though and come ready programmed as such. I really struggled with corgi Sherman tank when she was small, my first post her was about biting as nothing curbed it, and my usual methods were on the back burner as OH was all about the praise approach and I wanted her to feel she had a role in bringing up afore mentioned Sherman tank. It didn’t work, so we went back to my way and she shaped up. She still pushes it though, but I can’t imagine not saying no. Thing is I was really speechless today, as i wouldn’t have said with the exception of two, that any were particularly a challenge. I would say it was all just basic bad manners in the main....but it went on and on. I was surprised how little manners people seem to teach their dogs to have with other dogs too.

One today, with a really lovely pup they told me was part Dutch herder part working line GSD who was a bit pushy and you could tell knew they were a push over, (say no more. They didn’t say no to said five month old for mouthing) kept commenting on my sable boy and when I said he’s nearly ten they joked ‘can’t wait for X to get to that age then!’ I think it was a bit lost on them that he actually took WORK to get like this and didn’t just get older and behave....sable boy has worn the ‘it wasn’t like this in my day’ face all day since we got home!

This is absolutely my pet hate!! In fact those sorts of comments about dogs and horses send me into a complete rage lol. I often have people saying 'Oh, isn't he/she good - it must be in the breeding/aren't you lucky' that he/she is so good/ has such good feet/looks so fit/ blah blah blah!! It's down to HARD WORK and consistency I want to scream at them. It is so blooming belittling to suggest that you have nice well-behaved animals just through luck etc. I had all the world and his wife tell me I was mad to have a strong/medium terrier and a Welsh cob at the same time; there was no way I would cope with the training of either or both animals etc. As it turns out, because I knew what needed to be done I have a fantastic little dog and a lovely, very rideable young horse with manners to burn on both parts. I am not as stupid as these people think I am/not as stupid as I look/ not as stupid as they are!! Gawd. Sorry for the rant!!

 

[Cloball]

This seems to apply to children too!

I am of the opinion that my generation, me included, struggle with any sort of confrontation and have a desperate need to please which extends to not being able to say no to children or animals as it might upset them and cause a possible confrontation and uncomfortable emotions. Does that make sense to anyone else? ?
That said children and animals need boundaries however you enforce them to learn and feel secure and to begin to understand the world around them. If people took a bit of time to understand that rather than just... I want my animal to love me/bond with me.....
But I suppose that is more challenging in many ways and it might make you feel bad.


Sorry that is rather long. People not having insight into their own behaviour and its effects on other is a personal bugbear. As is my generations need to avoid anything 'negative'.

 

[Clodagh]

Ive been thinking about ‘no’. I don’t use it very often. My favourite training sayings:
1.2 and 3 are ‘leave it’ (I have Labradors).
4. ‘Stop’ usually a whistle but verbal works.
5. Shut up.
6. Ffs. Ffs can also be used attached to any if the others.

No is for jumping up. Or any situation where I’m lost for words.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I use a very loud AH!!! In fact someone who was in my house the other day nearly hit the deck when I spotted puppy trying to eat something she shouldn't and dropped it in mid conversation.
Puppy still loves me and follows me round with her tail going 90 miles an hour, I just don't want her to choke to death and I didn't have a pocket full of kibble or time to think of an alternative behaviour at that point in time. She barrelled over to me for cuddles instead.
If the relationship is good and the dog has good genetic nerve strength, an intervention which breaks concentration from/snaps them out of an undesirable behaviour shouldn't make their head fall off.

Both boys know a wide variety of swearwords and I'm often told how young they look compared to their actual ages, so they can't be too stressed out.
The dogs I know trained only in positive or freeshaped (where they have to make all their own decisions/choices) all look and act much older than their years.
Before I get jumped on, that's just my personal experience.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I am of the opinion that my generation, me included, struggle with any sort of confrontation and have a desperate need to please which extends to not being able to say no to children or animals as it might upset them and cause a possible confrontation and uncomfortable emotions. Does that make sense to anyone else? ?
That said children and animals need boundaries however you enforce them to learn and feel secure and to begin to understand the world around them. If people took a bit of time to understand that rather than just... I want my animal to love me/bond with me.....
But I suppose that is more challenging in many ways and it might make you feel bad.


Sorry that is rather long. People not having insight into their own behaviour and its effects on other is a personal bugbear. As is my generations need to avoid anything 'negative'.

I do, totally.
Horses kick, dogs bite, cats scratch, hot things burn, electricity shocks.
Negative consequences are all around us in nature and the environment and deluding ourselves in trying to protect ourselves or pets from experiencing them, is selling everyone a lie. How we cope/recover is important and not teaching an animal how to recover from/deal with stress is much crueller than exposing it in the first place IMO.
Chucking (him/her) out of a plane with no parachute, as someone I know used to say!!

 

[Bellasophia]

Corvus. I agree with both your last posts..in Italy the ah becomes akkkk..but the intention is the same.
you refer to good genetic nerve strength..we call this equilibrated,balance..it’s the
same thing...you can get this in any breed,it’s what you look for in a pup and it’s solid temperament will carry it through. It’s a blessing when you find it.The parents will be very clear indicators as to your pups potential,but to find that pup that is born steady is a rare gem. I know you know this Corvus,but others may not
I’ve been training my two with using just words,no lead touch,on the piste ciclabile..so we use slow,watch,wait,over( get to the side a tractor is passing),trot on(lol to speed up) ,steady,and so on..when. I do this and the people who are with me are incredulous that a dog will actually understand and follow the words.Who knew? Lol