Is no turnout in the winter the norm now?

If my horses couldnt be out on decent ground I wouldnt keep horses at all. Given the choice from my experience most horses will rarely go in if food and water are provided outside. Especially if they have long term free choice. I dont own a stable as such although we can use one in an emergency but I care for some that have free choice hay is given both inside and outside and as far as I can see there is always hay left and no poo in the stables but the horses when I visit are always outside in all weathers the gate and yard are muddy but they are often found out in the middle of the field in lashing down rain and cold winds
 
We are in the South East and are very lucky to have a yard that doesn't restrict turnout in the winter. They come in at night but mine are out from 7.30am - 6pm ish. Summer they are out 24/7. The fields are wet and a bit muddy but ok. Having said that, they would be more than happy to come in at 3pm if they had the option! We all have our own fields (my 3 go out together) and we can do as we please.

Having one with a dust allergy & arthritis and a 31 year old with arthritis, there is no way I could live with restricted turnout.

There is far more land than horses and if you are prepared/have time to walk a bit further to turn out, then there are plenty of paddocks that haven't been touched for ages so no mud at all!

We are very very lucky!
 
On our yard the YO says we can't turn out 24/7 on the winter paddocks, but doesn't enforce restricted turnout (eg set days or hours). It's down to the liveries to be sensible and look after their paddock. If they turn out when it's sodden and their field gets trashed then they will have to deal with the consequences (ie no grass left in late winter).
Generally I find we are all pretty sensible and keep in when the weather is dreadful / ground is sodden / horses are fed up.
I've only known the YO comment once asking us to keep them in when the fields were very wet.
 
milliepops said:
Yes, what caught my attention in Cortez's post was not an assertion that everyone was underwater but that those who were should consider the horses quality of life...

2 of mine are on restricted day time (4 or 5 hours) turnout,we are on clay, the fields are tiny and lack of maintenance means we have a healthy crop of moss and no grass. They always want to go out though, but are happy to return to haynets when I arrive in the afternoon.

The retired pair are 10 miles away on a big area of foggage and happy as larry. On the opposite hill to them, about 30 horses are on a similar space up to their knees in bog. not a blade of grass to be seen, and they all crowd around big bales fighting over the hay :( it's grim.
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Yes, that's what I understood by Cortez's comment too, and I do agree.
The person who owned my place before me had 7 horses getting daily turnout on 3.5acres of land. Half the land is completely wrecked as the soil degradation has turned the fields into bowls for standing water, and the fencing bears the scars of some very unhappy horses that were forced out in those circumstances every day - when we arrived there was barely a single rail that wasn't chewed and there were more than 10 fence posts that had been chewed through completely as if a beaver had been at them.
 
DabDab said:
Half the land is completely wrecked as the soil degradation has turned the fields into bowls for standing water,
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yep, we often see on here the claim that the ground recovers-that really depends on where you are and what you are on. I grew up on East Anglian clay, its got nothing on peaty bog lol. we have a very short growing season anyway and we are 1400+ ft up and alot of land that you simply can't get machines on. my paddock has arguably not fully recovered from the trashing it got in 2013 when I first moved here and didnt fully understand that.
 
DabDab said:
Yes, that's what I understood by Cortez's comment too, and I do agree.
The person who owned my place before me had 7 horses getting daily turnout on 3.5acres of land. Half the land is completely wrecked as the soil degradation has turned the fields into bowls for standing water, and the fencing bears the scars of some very unhappy horses that were forced out in those circumstances every day - when we arrived there was barely a single rail that wasn't chewed and there were more than 10 fence posts that had been chewed through completely as if a beaver had been at them.
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:( I left a yard I'd been on for 14 years when we had a winter like that, and the YOs horses chewed through the fence posts. Enough was enough :(

I'm so frustrated where I am now, it's a working farm and they can grow all kinds of other crops yet the horse paddocks are just left to turn into moss. There are repercussions if we don't poo pick... but the grass itself is never given any kind of care.
The retirees have no idea how lucky they are in their giant winter field, it's OH's hayfield so it grows really well :o
 
I will happily say that my 2 are turned out in a bog right now and will be until 4pm ish when I go to get them in. My retired one gets to spend from 8-10 every morning grazing on one of the summer fields (he just potters, so doesn't trash it), while the other one gets exercised.

They both seem to look forward to their bog experience. The ridden one was keen to get out after she'd dried off and the retired one sees us coming and heads over to the gateway ready to be let into the bog. I place their hay at the top of the field out of the bog, but I've seen them snooze together in the wet bit and they definitely roll in it :mad:

They're happy enough to come in to their stables in the evening, but not to the extent that they are standing by the gate begging passersby to phone pony-line to complain about bad treatment. Last night they were entertaining themselves try to get pheasants out of the hedge.

It isn't ideal - if I had a lottery win then life would be very different - but the rest of the yard are in 24 hours and I think mine prefer socialising in their bog to spending the day in a dingy stable. I hate the fact that zero turnout is heading to the norm in the south east because land is at such a premium and for me a small muddy field is infinitely preferable to no turnout at all. Fully appreciate not every horse will feel the same.
 
Recovery is definitely very dependent on location as much as use as I've definitely seen from only my two locations. There are paddocks near us which definitely don't recover as well as ours seems to, if it's lucky ours gets a harrow and roll once a year.
We aren't far from the set up I grew up with looking after other people's and there are paddocks there that haven't really had any grass on them in any season for at least 20 years, but the horses always wanted to go out (doors were opened) for a bit and they'd come back in a few hours later. The only real detriment seemed to be shoe finding, there weren't really any injuries or mudfever etc.

This is ours ATM, it will get worse, having Dad retired seems to mean he worries about what it looks like more than he ever has previously, but I do remind him that the field is there for the horses' benefit currently ;). The massive puddle used to be mud, since it had peagravel down a few years ago it has been more inclined to puddleage :D

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and I couldn't ever stop them doing this every day if they want to (I can't get on my youtube atm!)
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We turn out in pairs of threes and move fields regularly. We have certain fields that hold water and are wetter-one has a natural spring so this is not used in winter, but fortunately we are able to move to dry fields if need be.
YO trusts us to look after the land but doesn't give us restrictions other than be sensible, which we are. We generally turn out from around 8am- 4.30pm unless weather has been particularly bad and then we may just do a morning or afternoon. We kept in one day last winter due to a storm but we have a lot of tall trees bordering fields (and as it happened, two came down in my field). I fence off any areas that are looking wet and as a result the ponies never need their feet washing as they just don't have any mud to go through. I could go in the field in trainers quite happily. If I added 2 or 3 more to my field, I reckon certain parts might start to get poached. It's easier to keep on top of things with just a couple of horses being turned out in each field.
The big problem with livery yards is often gateways where there is a lot of traffic and horses waiting to come in.

I was at a yard for many years with a bog of a winter field. I would use it until the grass went, then I tended to stick to the rubber turnout paddocks to let them have an hour or two to play and have a stretch/scratch with pals.

The place I am at now is absolute heaven in comparison, and I realise I am luckier than most with this set up.
 
I think with the weather in the last few years and too many horses on too smaller acerage has been a big problem. There is no substitute for daily turnout, but I have to say, when I was young horses were nearly always stabled 24/7 and worked hard form the box. Only ponies really got turnout! Bizzarre thinking about it, but everything managed and appeared happy enough!
 
I used to own a house where the land flooded badly, up to a depth of 2'6' at times. The stables where an island sometimes for two -three weeks.
I used to turn them out to paddle while I mucked out. They would splash and mooch and then come in for their hay nets. Once it had flooded the rest of the winter in was literally a mud bath, and they just had a strip of concrete in front of the stables, and an island made of straw to stand on.
In 20 years none ever got mud fever and they were never really trouble by the mud. As long as they had company and enough to eat the lack of grass never bothered them they seemed happy. No bad behaviour, no vices etc
When horses stand at the gate waiting to come in I just think they do not have enough to chew. I have two youngsters that go out in the day, in an acre paddock they are turning it in to mud stew. I can watch them charging round from my living room window. They are not eating all the hay that put out and there is little grass. They do not stand at the gate, they do not rush to come in,they get hay and round bale straw to eat over night, so there is no competition for food.
If you land is wet you have to work with what you have. I have about 3/4 acres I just let them trash, mud is not going to hurt them, but its doesn't look pretty. I do not wash legs and I do not clip legs, and as I say in 30 years I have not had one case of mud fever.
 
I’m very lucky in that we can have our horses out 24/7 365 days a year. However with me living in the west coast of Scotland the fields are soaking so he comes in during the day each day to get a haynet and let his feet dry out .
 
Its not always due to over population of land! I have two horses on 16 acres in the Pennines, yet it gets ridiculously muddy. My friend is at a yard with ten horses on eight acres, in individual little strips, but the Lincolnshire soil barely gets any mud!

We turn ours out on a hardstanding area that wraps onto the yard and feed hay. They're on it from November to April, with the odd day a week out in the field. They're out eight or nine hours a day. It's been a godsend. It's also useful for recovering from injuries - not box rest, but a level, safe area for them to mooch around. My mare has just been diagnosed with cushings, so I think it may come in handy for laminitis management at some point. Pictures on my profile if anyone wants an idea of what it's like.
 
spookypony said:
I started trialling an Equicentral system last year (a bit like your standard rotational grazing, except horses have 24/7 access to area of hard standing, where all hay and water and feed are located). Part of the reasoning is to save the fields from abuse by encouraging then to use the hard standing when they just want to hang around.

At the moment, they (2 mares, 1 gelding) have free-choice access to the hard standing (the yard, including one stable permanently open), the school, and about 2 acres of field. Hay (free choice) and water are on the yard. They bring themselves in and out, as desired.

Judging by poo distribution, they are spending about 1/2 their time on the yard, 1/4 in the school, and one presumes the rest in the field. The field entrance is a bit churned up, but the field itself is not too bad at all. Occasionally, there is one poo in the stable.

They seem pretty chilled out, and it's far less work for me. I can sort the daily chores in 20-30 minutes. Would highly recommend giving it a try if you have the facilities and the autonomy.
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This! I have been running an equicentral system for two years and my fields are perfect! It’s not a question of in or out, there is an inbetween!
 
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There is huge pressure on land in the south-east, largely due to the changes in planning permission whereby stables could be cnverted into homes. We have lost a LOT of yards, including the one I was on for 14 years. So 1 big yard with 40 horses is now a single private home, not really helping the building crisis.

I was lucky enough to find a private yard, with a long suffering YO and a lot of grazing. However, as we are on clay, fields get destroyed so fast. The walkway down to the bottom fields becomes a real trial as well. We used common sense, so turnout balanced against mud, ripping off shoes and knackering the walkway. Luckily, everything recovers quickly and pretty much the entire yard lives out from March. She has never restricted us, we applied common sense and sometimes it meant leaving the horses in for a couple of days.
 
milliepops said:
:( I left a yard I'd been on for 14 years when we had a winter like that, and the YOs horses chewed through the fence posts. Enough was enough :(

I'm so frustrated where I am now, it's a working farm and they can grow all kinds of other crops yet the horse paddocks are just left to turn into moss. There are repercussions if we don't poo pick... but the grass itself is never given any kind of care.
The retirees have no idea how lucky they are in their giant winter field, it's OH's hayfield so it grows really well :o
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We have moss in our front paddock with the lami ponies, and I am led to believe if you leave the grass to grow long it blocks out the light and suffocates the moss. We have yet to leave it that long and had our ,land guy kill the moss, that in itself did remover some but not all,
 
Honey08 said:
Its not always due to over population of land! I have two horses on 16 acres in the Pennines, yet it gets ridiculously muddy. My friend is at a yard with ten horses on eight acres, in individual little strips, but the Lincolnshire soil barely gets any mud!

We turn ours out on a hardstanding area that wraps onto the yard and feed hay. They're on it from November to April, with the odd day a week out in the field. They're out eight or nine hours a day. It's been a godsend. It's also useful for recovering from injuries - not box rest, but a level, safe area for them to mooch around. My mare has just been diagnosed with cushings, so I think it may come in handy for laminitis management at some point. Pictures on my profile if anyone wants an idea of what it's like.
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I agree with you on the population part, we started off with 6 horses in total on our 9 acres split into 5, gradually when we got it into shape we found the land generally drains well except the field they on now as last 20 feet near the gate as it is in front of the concrete yard so does not drain as well. We now end up with 13 when we are full, four of those are restricted diets in the front 1 acre field and 9 in the back pairs which are split into 4 so two have a rest of about 2 months or three and the other in use, which had about enough grass in there for 2 months at least, and as they are diy and part the fields are grazed 7.15am - 4pm so they cope really well with this system.

We do pour money and time into it (fertilise - harrow- weed kill- deepoo- rest) and before our farmer retired we used to get our own hay off it as well 250 bales. The field their on now is very much green so the only time they hang round the gate is when it it is coming in time or a miserable day.
Look after your land and your land will look after your horses - feed your land and your land will feed your horses
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