Is the owner messing me about?

'If the OP allows the horse to become emaciated whilst in her care, the authorities will get involved'

Haven't you read the thread? The OP cannot physically AFFORD to keep the horse any longer!! At risk of sounding really harsh and I will undoubtedly get smashed down for it - but if it came down to feeding my baby or a horse that doesn't even belong to me, then my baby would win hands down. That is what you do as a mother.

I agree that it is unfortunate, but that is the risk you take when loaning a horse out. Saying that the OP is still responsible when she can't even afford to live herself is a joke - if the owner of the horse can't afford to have it back, she needs to sell it on herself or make other arrangements.

I'm so sorry for your predicament OP, and hope you manage to sort it out either way xx
 
OP I think you are being sensible and very brave. Loans are always tricky, a lot of people loan horses out as they can't bear to sell or they have financial constraints. Similarly a lot of people loan as they do not want the financial commitment of owning a horse, unfortunately this is what happens when things dont go smoothly. Could you not discuss the situation with the owner and suggest finances for the horse could be shared whilst the notice period runs?
 
God I hope nothing totally unexpected even happens to you lot.

The OP took the horse and treated it well for 3 years, even though it does not sound to be the sort which would easily be found a loan home.

Her world has fallen apart and she need to keep a roof over her head and feed herself and her child.

Perhaps she should have just abandoned it at the yard and not bothered feeding it and worry about being sued for the livery bill later. No, she has very responsibly informed the owner and asked for help. The owner agreed, now its only a few days away and the OP is understandably panicing about the lack of proper communication.

I know if that was my horse I would have been collecting it almost immediately, you expect that may be necessary when loaning. If the owner was not in a position to do so she should have sold it or, given its issues, had it put to sleep.

OP can you arrange grass livery and a payment plan with the yard owner if you still have the horse at the end of the month. It might not be the best situation for the horse, but would at least ensure a reasonable standard of care for the horse and not run up large bills for you.
 
catwithclaws said:
Haven't you read the thread?
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Oh yes I've read the thread many times ;) Perhaps it is you who doesn't understand fully what is being said? The OP has the DUTY OF CARE for this horse as SHE signed a contract saying she would give 3 months notice. In the eyes of the law, SHE is the one who would be causing neglect to the horse if she did not feed it. I digress, the owner appears to be trying to arrange a place to take the horse back early.
 
I haven't read all the posts, sorry but has anyone mentioned that the owner may not be in a position to have the horse back? If it has been with OP for 3 years and another loan prior to that it may well be that the owner no longer has the means to care for it either. I have rehomed a few horses in that position - owner put them on loan when they no longer had the resources to take care of them and had nowhere to have them back TO? Could you not reach some sort of compromise in the short term - e.g. pay half each until the horse's future is sorted on way or another?
 
Its easy to see the ones on here who have plenty of money and never been completely broke :D

I lost my partner and with a baby my financial situation was dire for a while. Fortunately I have wonderful family who helped me out, not everyone is lucky enough to have that.
 
One possible approach is to text or email the owner (presuming you can't get hold of her by phone) to inform her that due to your lack of funds the horse will have to live out from 28 Feb. This might just prompt her to speed up collection of the horse.

If you feel that she may not actually be able to take the horse back for some reason and the horse is unable to be re homed for medical reasons then you might also suggest to her that the pair of you may need to discuss the option of euthanasia unless anther option is found.
 
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OP very difficult situation you have my sympathy. I'd talk (face to face if possible) with the owner and clearly explain that you've paid livery up to end of the month and you can't afford to make another payment as it comes down to a choice between your son or her horse and that decision takes no time!
Try calmly to explain that you are extremely sorry to have to breach your loan agreement by returning the horse before the end of the contracted notice period, but you have no choice. If she wants to take that breach of contract further - that is her right but the court can't force you to hand over money you don't have.

Perhaps let her know that you have asked your livery yard owner to bill her for any and all livery / feed/ bedding etc. that is incurred past the end of the month and therefore she has a choice to leave her horse where it is and pay accordingly or collect the horse and keep it where ever she see's fit.
 
I wouldnt do the last part PM. Completely illegal and the YO would be a very silly person to agree to that. The owner would be within her rights to leave til the three months as the contract is with op not yo. And yo would have to chase op for money.

I think the owner is being generous taking at one month and making things more difficult now is a bad idea.

Had the op started the thread differently then fine, advice on who to talk to, places to help etc. But instead came slating the owner for not taking at two weeks when the contract is 3 months.
 
PStar - you're almost certainly right that the YO may well not agree but if the issue is that the horses owner hasn't got anywhere suitable to move the horse to yet it might help if the OP made it clear that the horse can happily stay where she is at the owners expense - if that is the owners preference (I'd agree the YO should get a new contract with the owner)

I suspect the YO is the one in a difficult situation here as if the owner doesn't collect the horse, and the OP doesn't pay for it - it's the poor YO stuck with an abandoned horse!
Interesting legal Q - if the YO follows the abandonment notice route can they assume ownership and sell to recover costs - when their is a legitimate owner out there somewhere that might not be aware of the issue (not in this case as clearly the owner is aware there is an issue) - Just wondering what would happen hypothetically if my loaner did a bunk (I visit once every 4/6 months as he's been hapily settled with her for 2 years) so I wouldn't spot an abandonment notice - could I turn up to find YO's legally sold him?
 
Jaycee, really sorry that you are in such a dreadful situation. Do hope things come right for you.

I have one horse out on loan, with a contract, with a 3 month notice period, but as his owner I absolutely feel that he is MY responsibility and if his loaner had a situation where she had to return him then I would have to deal with that. So I am definitely in the camp of, if you own a horse (who is after all a living being and dare I say it rather different from a telephone) then you have to accept the responsibility. Nobody said it would be easy but that in my opinion is the choice you make as a horse owner.

Good luck Jaycee x
 
Just to say really really sorry you are having such an awful time of it. I think you need to be a little firmer because you are backed into a corner and do not have the money. Why not offer to care for the horse till the box is provided the owner will pay the livery and related costs. Also I assume you gave notice where you are so do you actually have a place for this horse ?
 
Jaycee said:
It does state 3 months - but under the circumstances I had no choice but to only give her a month, she said she sympathised about my situation. But as I pointed out to her I couldn't have seen this coming 12, 6 months let alone 3 months in advance!
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Three months is three months - end of story sadly.

Ride the situ through as per agreement and keep fingers crossed that the owner gets a home quicker and you don't have the burden for a full 3 months.

And what ever your situ - I hope the right outcome turns up for the horse and everyone involved
 
sport horse said:
I had two mares out on breeding loan and the loaner got into similar problems. She really wanted to keep them and put them in foal the next year and assured me she would be able to manage that. In the December, with snow forecast, I was made aware by a third party that these horses were turned out 24/7 and that the loaner was struggling to feed etc.

Within 24 hours, I arranged for a haulier to collect the two mares at my expense and bring them back to me - a 5 hour journey each way

I have no hard feelings for the loaner - her life was turned upside down. Her only fault was to not admit that she would never be able to either feed them well or pay for their return.

They were my horses and my responsibility. QED.
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good straight talking owner - brilliant post
 
Arrrgh twice now I tried to post with a long response to peoples comments and for some reason it won't let me submit it! I'm to worn out to try again - have had a c**p day moving my other horse to his new home which incidentally was sorted in less than a month and yes he was on loan too

Suffice to say I am well aware that I am in the wrong with regards to the notice period and that really I shouldn't be complaining as I was the one who signed it. None of the awful things mentioned will happen to the horse whilst she is still in my care.

I hope none of you who have dug the knife in a bit deeper ever find yourselves in a similar situation
 
Jaycee, some people have absolutely no idea how a life can get turned upside down in a second, and if they have nothing supportive to say, should keep their mouths shut. ((((((((HUGS))))))))))
 
Jaycee said:
Arrrgh twice now I tried to post with a long response to peoples comments and for some reason it won't let me submit it! I'm to worn out to try again - have had a c**p day moving my other horse to his new home which incidentally was sorted in less than a month and yes he was on loan too

Suffice to say I am well aware that I am in the wrong with regards to the notice period and that really I shouldn't be complaining as I was the one who signed it. None of the awful things mentioned will happen to the horse whilst she is still in my care.

I hope none of you who have dug the knife in a bit deeper ever find yourselves in a similar situation
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I don't think ppl are digging the knife in - some ppl are just more frank than others - I am one of those sadly.

I feel really sad for you - really really sad - and its really brilliant that you have given this horse a great three years etc.... but stripping it all back - the three months still stands - so fingers crossed stable gets fixed soon and horse is ok and you win lotto tonight and all will be well again xx
 
I feel really sad for you - really really sad - and its really brilliant that you have given this horse a great three years etc.... but stripping it all back - the three months still stands - so fingers crossed stable gets fixed soon and horse is ok and you win lotto tonight and all will be well again xx


So if I gave a months notice on the 30th January what date does that take me to? Don't do the lotto, maybe I should have done - have just got round to opening todays post.........Oh joy of joys I have to be out of this house by the
1st of April, something to do with government legislation, housing benefit and me being in a house that is deemed to be too big for me! Couldn't have seen that coming 3 months ago either!

No more posts about the 3 month period please I have had enough quite literally
 
Jaycee said:
So if I gave a months notice on the 30th January what date does that take me to? Don't do the lotto, maybe I should have done - have just got round to opening todays post.........Oh joy of joys I have to be out of this house by the
1st of April, something to do with government legislation, housing benefit and me being in a house that is deemed to be too big for me! Couldn't have seen that coming 3 months ago either!

No more posts about the 3 month period please I have had enough quite literally
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Jaycee you DONT have to vacate your house due to the Welfare Reform Act, but your housing benefit may be reduced if it is considered that you are under-occupying the house (e.g. there are more bedrooms than the government say you need). I would really encourage you to speak to your Housing Association, the HA's are well aware of the problems this legislation will bring and are acting to help their tenants not evict them!

ETA - I am really sorry to read of your situation, I can only imagine how stressed you must be feeling :(
 
Yes I will be under occupying this house so will have to pay I think its around £25 a week myself. I have checked online as to what circumstances allow people in this situation to stay in their house and I don't qualify for any of them. This letter came from the HHA and the info is on their website
 
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Have you actually spoken to anyone from the Housing Association? I'm sorry to labour the point but I work for a HA and there has been absolutely no suggestion that any of our residents will have to move out, what will happen is that their benefit will be reduced and they will have to find the difference themselves.

Try having a look at this link if it works:

http://www.housing.org.uk/policy/welfare_reform/‘under-occupation’_penalty.aspx
 
Or you could take in a lodger possibly? Really feel for you jaycee & fwiw I think its admirable that you're still doing your utmost for this old boy when you've got so much else on your plate. Cld you see CAB for some financial advice?
 
If it's since horse could you try and find her an alternative loan home? Or maybe send her to an equestrian college shirt term until the owner is sorted?
 
What dolly mix said about finding another loan home could just work if the owner can't take her. When my pony was out on loan she stayed with her wonderful loaner for five years and I was abroad in various places for a lot of that time. Then my loaner sadly got divorced and lost her home and business but I was living in France at the time. Worst case I would have boxed the pony to France for a year until I came home but my loaner knew someone who wanted my pony, I came and met them and she stayed there another year until I was in a better position to take her back. I was very grateful for that.
 
Yes but age of horse & conditions make it much less attractive to pot. new home..& def wouldn't meet requirements of an equine college!
 
Contact CAB....I was told by someone in a similar situation that they had taken advice and were told that unless the contract is counter signed by a solicitor then its extremely difficult to enforce it. Good luck OP XXX
 
At the end of the day OP you are in a horrendous situation and just trying to do the best for all concerned.

In your shoes I would want the horse returned to the owner by the end of the months notice period and I would also be getting twitchy about not getting any real two way communication from the owner.

If it were me I would write a letter to the owner, sent by recorded delivery.

I'd outline your current situation, date 1 months notice is up and state that from that date the horse is their responsibility. I'd then go on to give them a couple of options
1) you will continue to care short term for the horse but at their expense - cost of £x pet week to be sent to you in advance.

2) you will make arrangements on their behalf for the horse to be euthanised, only on their agreement and they will be liable for the cost

If you haven't heard from them and agreed a suitable way forward you will arrange for the horse to be delivered to them on X date and the transporter will invoice them directly.

Hopefully that will generate a response! Good luck.

Do just bear in mind you are breaking contract and you may well be putting owner in a difficult position too - so go easy on the 'owner is messing me around' type comments!
 
OP just another thought that might ease your position - I hope you've taken advice about getting money from your husband for your son. He can't just disappear on you and walk away from his financial responsibilities. I've no idea how long it takes but the court can require his employer to deduct money from his payslip and pay child maintenance to you - so even if you have no idea where he is I assume you know where he works so you can press on with getting that arranged asap. I may well not be enough (or come quickly enough) to help with the horse situation but longer term it will help.
 
Picklenash said:
Have you actually spoken to anyone from the Housing Association? I'm sorry to labour the point but I work for a HA and there has been absolutely no suggestion that any of our residents will have to move out, what will happen is that their benefit will be reduced and they will have to find the difference themselves.
Try having a look at this link if it works:

http://www.housing.org.uk/policy/welfare_reform/‘under-occupation’_penalty.aspx
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You have hit the nail on the head here, finding the difference will be nigh on impossible.

I could take in a lodger but then whatever they pay would be taken into consideration and I would be the looks of it only be £10 a week better off.

Contract has not been counter signed by a solicitor so I will look into that one.

Your suggestions as to how to move forward have been taken on board.

I have just had a txt from owner to say that the place she had arranged has fallen through and the yard is now full! She is trying to find somewhere else. So I am back to square one.
 
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