Is the use of a Pessoa ever justified?

[Tiddlypom]

Following on from other threads.

I have never used one. However, folk whose opinion I normally respect, do.

I did purchase one, but it remains in its unopened wrapping.

I do a lot of lunging, both au natural, with side reins and with an Equi ami (which is VERY different to a Pessoa). I'm pretty good at all of those techniques. I'm not the greatest at two rein lunging, as I tend to trip over my own feet , though I realise that the purists rate two rein lunging highly.

What would the pessoa bring to the party?

 

[Shay]

Well fitted - and that is absolutely the trick - a pessoa is basically a more nuanced version of the equi ami. But it is quite difficult to fit and use correctly. The hind element on a pessoa is positioned differently than on an equi ami which suits some horses better and you have a few more options for side fastening which can support very specific muscle development. IF correctly fitted. An Equi Ami is much easier to fit - it is quite hard to get it wrong accidentally.

For me there is little practical difference between a pessoa and an equi ami and certainly no reason to have both. But if you have to fit a lot of horses with specific needs then a pessoa is more adjustable and offers a greater range of options. But you do have to know what you are doing. An equi ami is easier. Misused lunging aids is one of my absolute pet hates!

 

[Wagtail]

I think there is a major difference between the equi ami and the pessoa. It is a very important difference, and that is the equi ami allows for a natural bend as the front loop goes from a sliding contact with the rear loop, through the bit ring, between the front legs through a girth ring, back up through the other bit ring and back to the sliding contact which is anchored at the lunge roller. This means that on the circle the horse can easily bend to the inside. The pesssoa on the other hand does not allow for this lateral bend unless you adjust it at every change of rein.

Having said that, I no longer use the equi ami as I much prefer two rein lunging and long lining.

 

[case895]

I would never use side reins as they just pin the nose to the chest, whereas a Pessoa encourages the back end. Each to their own.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

I would never use side reins as they just pin the nose to the chest, whereas a Pessoa encourages the back end. Each to their own.

Agree. I threw my side reins away years ago.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I would never use side reins as they just pin the nose to the chest, whereas a Pessoa encourages the back end. Each to their own.

Agree. I threw my side reins away years ago.

Well, I'd have to disagree with that . Side reins used correctly do not pin the nose to the chest.

Like any aid, they need to be used in an educated way, in which the horse is encouraged to seek forward to the contact. Tight side reins which winch in the front end are not being used correctly.

Which brings me back to the Pessoa. A common criticism is that the horse gets socked in the mouth every stride whilst wearing it. Is that the case if it is set up and used correctly?

 

[case895]

Well, I'd have to disagree with that . Side reins used correctly do not pin the nose to the chest.

Like any aid, they need to be used in an educated way, in which the horse is encouraged to seek forward to the contact. Tight side reins which winch in the front end are not being used correctly.

Which brings me back to the Pessoa. A common criticism is that the horse gets socked in the mouth every stride whilst wearing it. Is that the case if it is set up and used correctly?

As I said, each to their own.

 

[Goldenstar]

There's a massive difference between a Pessoa and a equiami anyone who can't work that out ought not to be using either .
Anyone who thinks that sidereins just pin a horses head to its chest ought to take a look at Will Faeber using them on YouTube .
I will admit that chambons have a place in rehab work although I loath using poll pressure on my own horses so won't use one I won't diss those that do it's just a different way .
However as always the most important thing is the person working the horse if the person can't see the difference between head down on the forehand and head down lifting the wither it won't matter what you use .
I am old enough to remember when Pessoa where new and I knew one of the trainers who helped develop them personally they where never intended to be used in trot they where developed on Pessoas yard to allow the inexperianced canter horses on the lunge for exercise .

 

[honetpot]

All of these to me look like and instrument of torture, there must be some people who use them how they were intended but when ever I have ever seen them used the poor horse is run round in an over tight circle with no means of relaxing its position, with no idea if doing the right thing.
I know its supposed to be an exercise? but I would like someone to be tied on to a treadmill and made to run with their chin on chest with no chance to use the stop button and see how they learn from that exercise what ever muscles are developed.
At least with two reins lunging you have feel in your hands and can instantly reward and give, even with one rein you can reward acceptance. I thought training was about learning what its wanted and being rewarded when you or the horse get it right. I must be reading the wrong books and listening to the wrong trainers.

 

[Chinchilla]

Personally I don't use anything like that, side reins or pessoa or whatever that "makes" a horse go into any position. It's perfectly possible to achieve the same result using just your own 2 hands and perseverance

 

[scats]

I would never use side reins as they just pin the nose to the chest, whereas a Pessoa encourages the back end. Each to their own.

I certainly have never pinned my horses noses to their chests and I use side reins. I use them loosely to encourage straightness for horses who tend to have an over-exaggerated bend one way.

As with any training aid, you have to know not only how to use them, but why you are using them. I know at least two people who use a Pessoa regularly and when I have asked them why -very politely, in conversation- they can't actually give me an answer.

 

[Goldenstar]

Well, I'd have to disagree with that . Side reins used correctly do not pin the nose to the chest.

Like any aid, they need to be used in an educated way, in which the horse is encouraged to seek forward to the contact. Tight side reins which winch in the front end are not being used correctly.

Which brings me back to the Pessoa. A common criticism is that the horse gets socked in the mouth every stride whilst wearing it. Is that the case if it is set up and used correctly?

I can always tell when a horse has worn a Pessoa you can feel it in the hand and often they often 'break ' the horse at the third vertabrae as well .
I do own one I dont use it their are loads of better ways to develop a horse .
But the thing is they are not used now for the job they where intended for .

 

[case895]

I certainly have never pinned my horses noses to their chests and I use side reins. I use them loosely to encourage straightness for horses who tend to have an over-exaggerated bend one way.

As with any training aid, you have to know not only how to use them, but why you are using them. I know at least two people who use a Pessoa regularly and when I have asked them why -very politely, in conversation- they can't actually give me an answer.

One of the reasons I could not be on a communal yard, is that.

 

[dominobrown]

If fitted and used correctly it may have a place. However any gadget, be it side reins and pessoa, if you have manged to get your horses nose on its chest then you have gone wrong somewhere!

 

[JFTDWS]

if you have manged to get your horses nose on its chest then you have gone wrong somewhere!

Understatement of the year, right there!

I loose lunge, mostly. I used to be a fan of draw reins under the legs and knotted over the back, but I don't have anything that benefits from encouragement not to stick its nose in the air and knob off now. I use loose side reins to long rein in some circumstances. I personally don't care for pessoas or equi amis or chambons...

 

[ester]

I can't help thinking that even if it does encourage the back end there has to be better ways of doing that .

Mine uses himself beautifully in a headcollar, much better than with anything added so we do that, unless we are doing in hand work too in which case he might have his cavesson on for that.

 

[dominobrown]

Understatement of the year, right there!

I loose lunge, mostly. I used to be a fan of draw reins under the legs and knotted over the back, but I don't have anything that benefits from encouragement not to stick its nose in the air and knob off now. I use loose side reins to long rein in some circumstances. I personally don't care for pessoas or equi amis or chambons...

Also afraid I am last too... my event horse lunged in a lovely stretchy trot off a rope halter. Only takes about 10 seconds to put on to!!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Hopefuly, most of us are agreed that ideally a horse will work well on the lunge without any gadgets, be they side reins or something else. Tbh, that is how I do most of my lungeing. However, sometimes, especially after injury, judicious and targeted use of the right aid can assist in the retraining of muscle memory.

I'm a big fan of the equi ami for rehab. It's always set as loosely as is safe, but the ingenious sliding loop arrangement means that the horse is only ever encouraged, not forced, to work correctly. If it wants to go like a hollow bendy banana, it still can, but it is rewarded if it stretches forwards and down and straight.

This thread was more aimed specifically at the Pessoa, which in its variants is in common use.

Anyhow, I've just signed up to attend a series of 3 lecture demos being put on by my equine physio. They cover Equine massage and stretches, Polework for fitness and rehabilitation, and Lungeing and long reining. I'm looking forward to those, should be good .

Here's a link if anyone is interested.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1374528642615976&id=128788887189964

 

[stormox]

I can always tell when a horse has worn a Pessoa you can feel it in the hand and often they often 'break ' the horse at the third vertabrae as well .
I do own one I dont use it their are loads of better ways to develop a horse .
But the thing is they are not used now for the job they where intended for .

Excuse my ignorance, I have never used one. But surely a pessoa doesnt actually affect the horse unless its working incorrectly? (either the horse or the pessoa). My friend uses one and has won every showing class there is, including RDS and all the judges comment on the way of going and lovely ride her ex racehorse gives. He certainly doesnt look like he has a broken neck!
I have used a chambon for lunging, and again that encourages rather than forces the horse to stretch down.

 

[DabDab]

I wrote a very sit on the fence type answer, but then deleted it....I'll hop off the fence and say no, I don't think there is for general lunging. Because of the direct line between mouth and haunches all the horses I've seen worked in one at trot seem to tip forwards and raise their croup up (because you're encouraging the head down the other end of the pivot raises up), which causes them to tense through their back, despite the fact that their back legs often look quite attractively engaged (just don't look above the stifle).

The equi ami has effectively a tension break between mouth and haunches so doesn't have the same tip forwards effect in trot.

I've always thought that a pessoa fitted backwards would make more sense

 

[Orangehorse]

The equi ami was developed to be an improvement to the Pessoa as it doesn't smack the horse in the mouth at every step.

 

[Wagtail]

Don't want to derail the thread, but as a big fan of long reining, there is only one thing which bothers me, and that's when you have to use the rein to encourage forward movement. This must cause a jolt or at least a vibration to the mouth no matter how skilfully you do it. What do others think?

 

[Chinchilla]

Don't want to derail the thread, but as a big fan of long reining, there is only one thing which bothers me, and that's when you have to use the rein to encourage forward movement. This must cause a jolt or at least a vibration to the mouth no matter how skilfully you do it. What do others think?

Not necessarily...that being said I've being doing it all bitless, but the reins shouldn't be *that* tense all the time, in my opinion. You should have a light contact all the time. Personally with my mare I use my voice and gesture (e.g go behind and push her forwards) without needing to do anything with the reins at all though sometimes I wave the spare loop at her bum if she's being a pain, though that's for lunging, not long reining, but I think most people use their voice mostly.

 

[Wagtail]

Not necessarily...that being said I've being doing it all bitless, but the reins shouldn't be *that* tense all the time, in my opinion. You should have a light contact all the time. Personally with my mare I use my voice and gesture (e.g go behind and push her forwards) without needing to do anything with the reins at all though sometimes I wave the spare loop at her bum if she's being a pain, though that's for lunging, not long reining, but I think most people use their voice mostly.

Yes, when I hack her out on the reins they are loose and I just use my voice. However, she does need a wiggle of the outside rein occasionally when on a circle.

 

[Goldenstar]

Excuse my ignorance, I have never used one. But surely a pessoa doesnt actually affect the horse unless its working incorrectly? (either the horse or the pessoa). My friend uses one and has won every showing class there is, including RDS and all the judges comment on the way of going and lovely ride her ex racehorse gives. He certainly doesnt look like he has a broken neck!
I have used a chambon for lunging, and again that encourages rather than forces the horse to stretch down.

Of course it affects the horse it's a pully system where the back legs pull the head down particularly in the trot where it's action is horrible because of the two time swing in the trot the horses learn to sway their heads within the pessoas action
The equi ami goes a long way to try to address this by having a break in the form of loop that stops the action of the horses hind leg pulling directly on the horses mouth

 

[AdorableAlice]

The biggest problem for the horse is not what it finds itself wearing, it is the fact that so few people can recognise a horse moving in balance, up through the wither and the hind end stepping through. The majority of people only look at what the head and neck are doing.

The head is the last place to study. Side reins fitted correctly will allow a horse to seek a contact, fitted incorrectly provide a useful shelf on which to rest its front end. The equi ami has been very useful on an inverted cob that spent the first year of her ridden life with a novice rider who used her mouth as handlebars. She simply could not drop her head as the muscle under her neck was solid. She did hours of walk in the equi ami and it helped her greatly.

 

[milliepops]

Don't want to derail the thread, but as a big fan of long reining, there is only one thing which bothers me, and that's when you have to use the rein to encourage forward movement. This must cause a jolt or at least a vibration to the mouth no matter how skilfully you do it. What do others think?

I always carry a stick.
For long reining in the school, I have a lunge whip if i'm lunging. For everything else (when following the horse more closely) I always carry a schooling whip. The reins are for the contact, as in ridden work, and the stick backs up my voice if i need to encourage more forward. I never flap the reins at the horse.

 

[stormox]

I always carry a stick.
For long reining in the school, I have a lunge whip if i'm lunging. For everything else (when following the horse more closely) I always carry a schooling whip. The reins are for the contact, as in ridden work, and the stick backs up my voice if i need to encourage more forward. I never flap the reins at the horse.

Nor do I. I always carry a lunge whip, as I would was I driving. who on earth says you should flap the reins???

 

[JFTDWS]

Am also slightly intrigued as to how and why one would use the rein to encourage forward movement... I long rein a fair bit and just use my voice, although I do tend to carry a schooling whip lest there is cause for a reminder of manners.

 

[Goldenstar]

I always use a whip when long riening as well