Blythe Spirit
Well-Known Member
Thanks
i think you are all right i need to find out if she is in pain then if she can do some work happily i need to set her up for that and perhaps loan her out.
Is there a future for this horse.... ? (Long sorry!)
- Thread starter Blythe Spirit
- Start date
Thanks
i think you are all right i need to find out if she is in pain then if she can do some work happily i need to set her up for that and perhaps loan her out.
Mince Pie
Well-Known Member
I'd have a full body thermal imaging scan done, then go from there. Or you could put her on retirement livery for a year and completely turn her away. Is she insured?
Blythe Spirit
Well-Known Member
Yes she is insured. Livery yard i am on is not suited to retired horses - not enough land. Not sure i can afford full retirement livery elsewhere. I say full livery as no where local to me has enough land or does grass livery
Mince Pie
Well-Known Member
Where are you? Someone may know of somewhere?
Blythe Spirit
Well-Known Member
Wawickshire cotswolds borders nr stratford upon avon - i will
Ask around if it seems like the best way to go after second opinion - thanks
Ask around if it seems like the best way to go after second opinion - thanks
windand rain
Well-Known Member
Get a horspital appointment and get her checked completelyThe fetlock injury sparks a familiar memory My mare had an accident jumping she landed awkwardly and tore her fetlock manica She was operated on and had a desmotomy and a years worth of rehab it didnt really come right so being a rare breed I had her covered and turned her away completely while pregnant and until her foal was weaned. She has been sound and happy after her 18 months off work has been doing everything she did before her foal and is now a fit healthy 19 year old. So although I would never advocate breeding from your mare she may well benefit from a year off just chilling and being a horse. I had another one that showed signs of ham string problems she was turned away as her loan fell through because of it 4 months later she came back into work and hasnt been lame since and in fact is a successful showjumper jumping 1m courses clear and fast in jump off. She is rarely out of the top three now
Blythe Spirit
Well-Known Member
Interesting - no worries that I would breed from her she is of no breed value she is just a cob cross trotter with unknown parents who was bought from stow market. I have more sense than that!!
smellsofhorse
Well-Known Member
Before thinking about anything you need her properly checked over.
Get a defect vet, a well known hospital,.do a full work up, Bute trial, scan etc.
What has your current vet actually done?
If she is a polite horse and happy as a gentle happy hscker, then she certainly could find a nice long term home.
Get a defect vet, a well known hospital,.do a full work up, Bute trial, scan etc.
What has your current vet actually done?
If she is a polite horse and happy as a gentle happy hscker, then she certainly could find a nice long term home.
jeeve
Well-Known Member
Vets are not good at this stuff try acupuncture or similar horse therapy type person. I had a horse caste itself and not right for a year till I had 3 acupuncture treatments and all good. You need someone decent though.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
If she is insured then I am completely shocked that your vet has not referred her for a gamma ray scintigraph by now. My guess is that she has done her sacroiliac, or her neck, from the range of symptoms you are describing.
I think your vet has let you down badly, and I would get a referral for a scintigraph, which will show any areas of current active problem in her entire body, as soon as you can.
Best wishes with her recovery.
I think your vet has let you down badly, and I would get a referral for a scintigraph, which will show any areas of current active problem in her entire body, as soon as you can.
Best wishes with her recovery.
Blythe Spirit
Well-Known Member
actually I asked him why he didn't recommend this as he had done this for the horse i had with kissing spines - in that case it was literally two weeks from her first misbehavior to diagnosis. very efficient and saved me lots to time money and possibly falling off a lot (Although her misbehavior was so bad I was afraid to ride her again after the second incident even though I sat it)
He said there was no point in doing this as the issue was not he felt 'bony' he then did what I could only describe as firmly manipulated / waggled her head/neck and back and when she didn't react as if in pain he pretty much said 'there you go - see there is nothing wrong' in fact I am amazed she tolerated it at all - I never knew a horse spine could move that much in the area behind the saddle. my TB would have kicked him from here to next week if he had done that to him!!
I thought hips too at first though with the issues she showed at first - which was not misbehavior as such but just a disorganized canter transition and unwillingness to lengthen. Lets see what the 'second opinion suggests... any recs of good lameness vets in Warwickshire/cotswolds area?
He said there was no point in doing this as the issue was not he felt 'bony' he then did what I could only describe as firmly manipulated / waggled her head/neck and back and when she didn't react as if in pain he pretty much said 'there you go - see there is nothing wrong' in fact I am amazed she tolerated it at all - I never knew a horse spine could move that much in the area behind the saddle. my TB would have kicked him from here to next week if he had done that to him!!
I thought hips too at first though with the issues she showed at first - which was not misbehavior as such but just a disorganized canter transition and unwillingness to lengthen. Lets see what the 'second opinion suggests... any recs of good lameness vets in Warwickshire/cotswolds area?
Kokopelli
Well-Known Member
Have you had thermal imaging done? Always a good way to show any hot spots and not too expensive.
Hope you get to the bottom of it.
Hope you get to the bottom of it.
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
It sounds very much like a sacro illiac injury to me. That is pretty expensive to conclusively diagnose (nearly £4,000 at Newmarket for my WB). You could try thermal imaging if it's a recent injury and that could show hotspots - that is cheap at around £50 - or iridology where you take a high quality photograph of the eyes and get a report done via this. The iridology was accurate for my horse - even spot on which side the injury was on his SI.
A physiotherapist could do muscle measurements and likely tell what was going on. Has you horse been tested by pulling down on his hip bones to see a reaction?
If it is an SI injury - I used a holistic vet in Higham to manipulate my horse's sacrum and I got LOU for him , but he is now coming right after turnaway and rehab in hand.
Have you got a good holuistic vet locally? By that I mean one who is also an osteopath and can do manipulations. It would in my opinion be no good simply turning away a horse with injured ligaments if some manipulation is required. My WB's injury was chronic and it has taken months to correct his movement and muscle build as he was left untreated for so long.
Do feel free to pm me if you want further information.
A physiotherapist could do muscle measurements and likely tell what was going on. Has you horse been tested by pulling down on his hip bones to see a reaction?
If it is an SI injury - I used a holistic vet in Higham to manipulate my horse's sacrum and I got LOU for him , but he is now coming right after turnaway and rehab in hand.
Have you got a good holuistic vet locally? By that I mean one who is also an osteopath and can do manipulations. It would in my opinion be no good simply turning away a horse with injured ligaments if some manipulation is required. My WB's injury was chronic and it has taken months to correct his movement and muscle build as he was left untreated for so long.
Do feel free to pm me if you want further information.
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TBmare92
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear this, a friends horse had an accident in a horse walker which resulted in almost exactly the same symptoms. It turned out she had suffered nerve damage which meant she couldn't use her hind legs properly. I would DEFINATELY get a second opinion ASAP my friends mare recieved a diagnosis for it about six weeks after the accident but if left much longer and the damage could have been permanent, the vet blind folded the mare and found she couldn't work out where to put her back legs as she had lost all cordination! It took about four months of treatment (I think some strong drugs and danilan for a month then just danilan) before she was slowly brought back into work! She is now back with her top event rider and you wouldn't even know anything had happened-definitely don't get a chiropractor out before the vet has given a second oppinion as may cause irreversible damage! Good luck xxx
Blythe Spirit
Well-Known Member
thanks all - there is actually some one i very slightly know just down the road who does thermal imaging - so I could contact her and ask if she could help. Not sure about Holistic vets in my area. I am just planning who will be my second opinion vet - at the moment its a toss up between 608 equine vets and Bourton Vale...? Any thoughts anyone?
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Iridology? Flipping heck, it's like the Enlightenment never happened.
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/confessions.html
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/confessions.html
Blythe Spirit
Well-Known Member
Sadly there is a lot of Quackery out there in the horse world. I will never forget the so called back lady who all the liveries t the RS I learned at used. She would shut herself into the horses stable just her the horse and a small tap hammer (Top door shut etc) tap about for a bit. Come out and give the owners a little pot of green pills to give the horse and then charge them! (The Green always washed off the pills when they got damp!). I was amazed anyone went for it but this lady was like their guru!
TBmare92
Well-Known Member
A word of caution regarding thermal imaging. I spoke to my vet about it as was interested in getting it done on one of my mares a few months ago, he said that the problem is that as it measures hot spots it is not always reliable, if a horse has led down, had a rug on, been groomed, hosed down, done any exercise, etc they will have got extra/less blood flow in certain areas so he said it is very hard to be accurate with thermal imaging.
personally I would speak to a vet first before spending money on anything else. Xx
personally I would speak to a vet first before spending money on anything else. Xx
paddi22
Well-Known Member
One of my horses had similar issues. I tried thermal imaging first but it didn't show up anything even though there was a definite issue (he would rear and flip and became unrideable). Vet was interested in seeing thermal imaging but mentioned they had tried it at one of the main vetinary hospitals here but the results were hit and miss.
As my lad was a rescue exracer and a quirky horse at the best of times, I couldn't justify large vets bills and was happy to retire him as issues were only when he was ridden. I didn't have the cash for all the xrays, nerve blocks etc to figure out exact cause. Vets best guess without exploration was that is was KS or SI. He suggested the best option for my budget would be to give the steroid injects into spine and sacroiliac. I did that and did loads of physio/lunging to build up back. I turned him away for 6 months and when i took him in he was a completely different horse. Now he is rideable and can happily walk, trot, canter and do small jumps but I don't think I could push him further than that. I took a bet on the injections and (touch wood!!) it has paid off so far.
As my lad was a rescue exracer and a quirky horse at the best of times, I couldn't justify large vets bills and was happy to retire him as issues were only when he was ridden. I didn't have the cash for all the xrays, nerve blocks etc to figure out exact cause. Vets best guess without exploration was that is was KS or SI. He suggested the best option for my budget would be to give the steroid injects into spine and sacroiliac. I did that and did loads of physio/lunging to build up back. I turned him away for 6 months and when i took him in he was a completely different horse. Now he is rideable and can happily walk, trot, canter and do small jumps but I don't think I could push him further than that. I took a bet on the injections and (touch wood!!) it has paid off so far.
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
Well weird then eh that my vet read the iridology report and referred my horse to Newmarket where funnily enough he was diagnosed with the very lameness the iridology report had thrown up,. You can always find articles that slate these alternative practices/therapies but the proof of the pudding for me lay with the accuracy the report held and that was not known until Sue Dyson carried out her tests afterward.
So there can have been no 'influence' over the iridology result - noone knew what was wrong with the horse - he was just a dangerous aggressive big WB steadily getting worse. Perhaps the iridologist was some kind of psychic and she communicated with my horse - now there is a possibility! All I can say is that I am eternally grateful to Leanne Wrentmore and to my vet for believing and saving my beautiful horse.
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Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
I have no experience of iridology but interesting that Y&C's iridologist said exactly the same as the 'official' diagnosis.
I have had very good results, both personally and in horses, with acupuncture. My vet, who did it (for the horse) explained in scientific terms how it works. If there doesn't seem to be any skeletal damage, acupuncture may well help to relieve muscle tension which is causing a spiral of pain for this horse.
spacefaer
Well-Known Member
I've used these guys as a referral from my own vets. My horse had a loss of performance, hard to diagnose hind limb problem. He had massive problems with both trot and canter, and was a head shaker. Turned out he had a long standing whiplash injury to a couple of neck vertebrae.
He was diagnosed using scintigraphy and thermal imaging, and was fixed with spinal manipulation and long term rehab. Took 18 months to diagnose and treat but he came sound and became a good dressage horse (although he did retire from eventing! )
http://www.avonvaleequine.co.uk/
He was diagnosed using scintigraphy and thermal imaging, and was fixed with spinal manipulation and long term rehab. Took 18 months to diagnose and treat but he came sound and became a good dressage horse (although he did retire from eventing! )
http://www.avonvaleequine.co.uk/
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
One coincidence does not make something medically reliable, neither does some professionals using it.
People will be bleeding horses to balance their humours next.
People will be bleeding horses to balance their humours next.
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
And neither does a doubter mean something is unsound or rubbish. I am sure there are many success stories and I for one got an accurate result for my horse so I am the one smiling
And the biggest smile is that my iridology report cost under £50 yes under £50 to tell me virtually the same as Newmarket costing a whopping £4,000. A no brainer methinks.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Then why doesn't it stand up to proper scientific, unbiased scrutiny?
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
Frankly I don't know whether it has or hasn't. The point is that many of these 'alternative therapies' are not proven due to the high cost of putting them through trials. To do that would cost hundreds of thousands of £s.
Look at the microtherapy market - the Arc and MicroDoctor to name a couple of well used units - there are threads on here extolling how fabulously these work. And yes they do I have tried one myself on the family and the horses, but they are 'unproven' scientifically. Does that mean they don't work and all the folk saying how they had helped are talking poppycocK?? I think not.
I will add look at things like herbal supplements - again no proven testing carried out there, but again look at the results many are enjoying. The vets often don't like it - now why would that be?
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YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
Sometimes you just need to think and look outside the box - outside the norm and not question it too heavily. We are afterall not suggesting investing your life savings, but desperate situations call for fresh ideas and solutions and they have worked for me with no harm done and very little cost.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Some unproven methods work, some don't... and yes, some people do mistake the placebo effect for something else and there are some out there who do talk poppycock (and believe it) and there are others who willfully deceive the desperate.
Anyhoo, moving on... I hope the OP does manage to get a diagnosis for her horse and that it's something that will get better.
Anyhoo, moving on... I hope the OP does manage to get a diagnosis for her horse and that it's something that will get better.
Cheiro1
Well-Known Member
I would use Bouton Vale Equine if you are close enough to them, top quality vets and VERY good facilities!!
I would also consider thermal imagining, might give you an idea of area with less expense?
I would also consider thermal imagining, might give you an idea of area with less expense?
Blythe Spirit
Well-Known Member
Thanks TBmare - Oh I would - I was rather wondering if the person I knew might have a go for free or very little as she has this equipment and is rather keen to show it off! <wink>
Liz
Liz