Dressage Is there a problem with modern dressage and the FEI?

[shortstuff99]

I'm not sure if anyone saw this article from the 3* Belgian dressage show. A russian rider completed the grand prix in an illegal curb bit, with a blue tongue throughout the test. Not only was she not eliminated (as she should have been), she scored over 70% and placed top ten!

Why is the FEI not adhering to it's own rules? Are judges too afraid to put their head above the parapet? Has dressage become too much about money that they are ignoring welfare?

I don't know what to think, makes me sad for the sport.

Well done to Charlotte though! Great ride.

https://www.eurodressage.com/2021/0...ws-greatness-2021-cdi-grote-brogel-grand-prix

 

[Roxylola]

I hadn't seen it. It is inexcusable but I think tack checks in general should be done as the rider enters the warm up - this would give the opportunity to say "that is an illegal bit you must change or be eliminated". Checking afterwards is pointless the damage is done.
As for judging thats a whole other can of worms

 

[splashgirl45]

what were they thinking, if she has broken the tack rules she should have been eliminated, makes a mockery of the bit checking...dressage does not need this sort of thing...

 

[shortstuff99]

I hadn't seen it. It is inexcusable but I think tack checks in general should be done as the rider enters the warm up - this would give the opportunity to say "that is an illegal bit you must change or be eliminated". Checking afterwards is pointless the damage is done.
As for judging thats a whole other can of worms

They used to do it beforehand (and still do at RC) but riders complained that it upset their horses and made lower scores so they changed it to after the test.

There really does need to be some sort of overhaul for dressage I think.

 

[sbloom]

They used to do it beforehand (and still do at RC) but riders complained that it upset their horses and made lower scores so they changed it to after the test.

There really does need to be some sort of overhaul for dressage I think.

They can still eliminate rather than simply ask them to follow the rules for the other part of the GP, makes a complete mockery. But then I think most of competitive dressage went at least part-way to hell in a handcart many years ago.

 

[shortstuff99]

They can still eliminate rather than simply ask them to follow the rules for the other part of the GP, makes a complete mockery. But then I think most of competitive dressage went at least part-way to hell in a handcart many years ago.

Yes, combined with some of the poor punishments from the FEI recently, rather makes me wonder what the point of them is.

 

[milliepops]

There was a fair old ding dong at the time on FB. I think I first saw it via Pammy and Heather's group. In the comments Pammy seemed to suggest something was happening behind the scenes but not sure what that means in practical terms.

 

[McFluff]

That’s rather shocking. Poor horse, 17 yo, and clearly well trained - still having to put up with that. The fact they had a ‘legal’ curb so could do the next test suggests it was planned. Should have been eliminated and removed from rest of competition. The FEI has a responsibility to the horse.

 

[Nicnac]

Yes saw that on Pammy Hutton's FB page. Horrible sight and that poor horse.

 

[AUB]

I don’t know if her not being eliminated could have something to do with getting her last qualification for the olympics? The rider was out for a while with an injury and then there’s been covid-19, so even she did have her qualifications in the past they might have expired and she would have to qualify again.

Even so I think she should have been eliminated. Rules are rules.

 

[Roxylola]

I don’t know if her not being eliminated could have something to do with getting her last qualification for the olympics? The rider was out for a while with an injury and then there’s been covid-19, so even she did have her qualifications in the past they might have expired and she would have to qualify again.

Even so I think she should have been eliminated. Rules are rules.

All the more reason for her to get it right - you don't get to that level without knowing what is legal and not to put in your horse's mouth! And you certainly don't take chances if its got that much riding on it

 

[ycbm]

I just don't understand how you can be found competing in an illegal bit and not be disqualified ?‍

Has the FEI explained?

 

[catkin]

If the explanations above have any grain of what it's really about then for me it says that Olympics are considered more important than anything else - animal welfare, rules of the sport.
Suppose that shouldn't be surprising as even the health of the people of the Games' host country, and their wishes, appear to be over-ridden by sport ruling bodies.

Dressage, I'm ashamed of you - a now ex-fan.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

It amuses me that a rider at this level, not that anyone can really claim ignorance since there are rulebooks, is just allowed to do as she pleases, essentially. I mean F those rules. Yet, bitless competing is always squashed the minute it is brought up. I know there are a variety of reasons for that, but it just blows my mind that it isn't allowed yet something like this is.

Why even have the rules if you can't be arsed to enforce and uphold them. I mean if this rider can do this, I should be able to use whatever bit I want, whatever spurs I want, whatever ill fitting piece of tack I want, heck, I'm even going to show up in a sheepskin saddle next time!

FFS.

But ~*Olympics*~ so f--- it.

 

[shortstuff99]

It does make for uncomfortable reading if it was allowed to slide for the olympics. That means that money/prestige really does mean more then animal welfare. Not good.

 

[AUB]

All the more reason for her to get it right - you don't get to that level without knowing what is legal and not to put in your horse's mouth! And you certainly don't take chances if its got that much riding on it

I absolutely agree. I’m just looking for an explanation for her not being eliminated.

 

[18hhOlls&Me]

Not only is it sheer cruelty but totally unsportsmanlike. There are bitting regulations for a reason- welfare of the horse and also an unfair advantage as the rider is not using skills and communication with the horse to perform the movements but instead forcing them out of the horse. For me it has put me off the FEI as I don't believe they are really behind the new regulations and only instigated them due to pressure from outside opinion. Dressage at that level is in some ways falling behind other equestrian disciplines in this way; of course we understand that dressage is a lot to do with the incredible and elegant movements of the horse but if it is done artificially it says nothing really about the skill of the rider. Charlotte and others prove time and time again that a true and harmonious communion between horse and rider without heavy handed over bitting and even rolkur are demonstrating these incredible performances in a far superior way, showing the true and fair pinnacle of modern dressage. Techniques such as these are not only cruel but let's call them what they are- cheating, as they are against the rules whether they are enforced or not.

 

[Spirit2021]

It’s very much who you know and your achievements that why she wasn’t kicked out. if someone was riding a cob in that bit they wouldn’t even make it to the warmup arena.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

It does make for uncomfortable reading if it was allowed to slide for the olympics. That means that money/prestige really does mean more then animal welfare. Not good.

Unfortunately money and prestige often comes before animal welfare. It's nothing new, sadly, and makes one wonder if the FEI just does things (or has rules) just for show. Sometimes they are enforced, or no one breaks them. Sometimes they do hand down decent consequences for inappropriate actions and animal welfare issues, but sometimes isn't good enough, IMO. It's not even that their rules are so outlandish either! Choosing a legal bit is stuff that people think about and know even at the lowest levels, therefore if you're upper level, or a professional, you should have more than a clue. Or, not sure? Read the rules or even contact them directly. No. Excuse.

 

[ycbm]

I just don't get how you can qualify for the Olympics in an illegal bit when you would be disqualified for that if it was spotted at a local Intro.
.

 

[milliepops]

it seems that she was previously the Russian team trainer as well as a rider who has ridden at international champs multiple times. You'd know the rules. A very weird thing to have happened. I understand the need to refer to the judge when illegal tack is found, but it feels like it should be a formality to rubber stamp what the steward has identified, rather than leave the option open to just wave it away as a non-issue.

 

[ester]

There were definitely hints when it first came out that there was stuff behind the scenes but I've not seen any more on that.

 

[Lyle]

If you've competed with illegal equipment/breaching rules, your score/result is void. This is for ANY sport. At ANY competition. Raise your hand if you've ever been eliminated for forgetting to drop your whip when eventing?

 

[LEC]

Rules are for pushing and you might get away with it and you might not. The person choosing to risk it makes that choice. The rules on bits are so onerous now so also easy to make mistakes. I had to explain a rule to an ex BE chairman, world renowned course designer and current BE steward last week.

 

[ycbm]

If you don't "get away with it", you should be disqualified, though, no?
.

 

[milliepops]

If you don't "get away with it", you should be disqualified, though, no?
.

Yeah exactly
The curb rules aren't that hard to understand, you just need a tape measure. She's possibly got away with it on other occasions but on that day it seems like the steward knew what they were doing.

 

[LEC]

If you don't "get away with it", you should be disqualified, though, no?
.

Completely agree

 

[18hhOlls&Me]

If you've competed with illegal equipment/breaching rules, your score/result is void. This is for ANY sport. At ANY competition. Raise your hand if you've ever been eliminated for forgetting to drop your whip when eventing?

It certainly seems to be one rule for the majority and another for those with influence and power and for some reason dressage seems to be ground zero for this kind of disparity in applying the rules....it's why I've never felt tempted to strive to go higher in competitive dressage which is a shame. However the British team and others seem to be doing a good job of drawing people back to the sport bit by bit (no pun intended!) by setting inspiring examples and making it more accessible at lower levels. I've participated in 'everyone welcome' unaffiliated dressage competitions and team competitions that were a lot of fun- and all rules regarding the actual riding including tack etc were adhered to but if your dressage jacket wasn't exactly right it didn't matter at all!! And you often see very talented riders at these type of events communicating so well in harmony with their horse, showing the hours of dedicated schooling and bonding time they have spent with their horses. I enjoy these events far more in a way I have to say!!

 

[milliepops]

It certainly seems to be one rule for the majority and another for those with influence and power and for some reason dressage seems to be ground zero for this kind of disparity in applying the rules....it's why I've never felt tempted to strive to go higher in competitive dressage which is a shame. However the British team and others seem to be doing a good job of drawing people back to the sport bit by bit (no pun intended!) by setting inspiring examples and making it more accessible at lower levels. I've participated in 'everyone welcome' unaffiliated dressage competitions and team competitions that were a lot of fun- and all rules regarding the actual riding including tack etc were adhered to but if your dressage jacket wasn't exactly right it didn't matter at all!! And you often see very talented riders at these type of events communicating so well in harmony with their horse, showing the hours of dedicated schooling and bonding time they have spent with their horses. I enjoy these events far more in a way I have to say!!

genuinely interested to understand how this has put you off? I can't think of a time when I've seen a rule being broken and ignored at the shows I've been to or aspired to, that would have discouraged me from taking part. I'm fairly well out of the loop so accept it might be complete ignorance on my part (in which case I'm OK with that tbh, it's quite nice in my own little bubble i only know nice people )

 

[18hhOlls&Me]

genuinely interested to understand how this has put you off? I can't think of a time when I've seen a rule being broken and ignored at the shows I've been to or aspired to, that would have discouraged me from taking part. I'm fairly well out of the loop so accept it might be complete ignorance on my part (in which case I'm OK with that tbh, it's quite nice in my own little bubble i only know nice people )

Well I suppose I'm not talking about a specific incident admittedly and dressage as an individual discipline has never been my bag so I am speaking from relative ignorance ? but the general impression I get from speaking to others and reading and seeing images about incidents in media it seems to me that dressage more than other equestrian sports seems to have an elite who seem to ignore rules about appropriate bitting and other welfare issues with no real consequences for some high level individuals. But I do enjoy lower level dressage as I said in my other post.....maybe I'm just jealous I'm not a super talented dressage rider ??