Is there any point to showing?

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TeamTotilas

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I am not trying to offend anyone who loves showing! I would just love to hear a reasonable explanation as to why showing should be a sport, and why it should even feature in H&H. I just don't understand why, if you have a horse that moves nicely or jumps well, you wouldn't do BE, BD, or BS? This would put an end to all the grumbling amateur show riders that say only the 'faces' win and that amateurs never get a look in. Participating in one of the above sports would put paid to that as you are judging soley on merit. I do all three sports and can't imagine paying an entry fee only to ride well and then go home empty handed because the judge didn't think my horse looked pretty enough.
 
I understand the principle of showing but the way it is at the moment is ridiculous. Horses that would be too obese to do a decent dressage test or pop round a small HT shouldn't be winning showing. It should be about the horse in the best condition, not the fattest with the most showshine on them.
 
Brave.lol.

If you look at what should be the fundaments of showing, it's manners, conformation and ride. 'Looking pretty' is a bit of a bland statement as the better conformation, the better the horse should be to go and reach it's career potential - less risks from injury,strain, problems, etc. Therefore - better chance of not breaking down.
Hence why a lot are then sold on after their showing life to go on and do other things.

Not always granted. But there is a major point there underneath all the politics, glitz and glam!


Plus. Have you seen some of the worker classes out there?! I'd have to be severely intoxicated before I'd dreamabout going round some of them tbh! Guts and boldnessfor sure.
 
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For me, it's fun and that's a good enough point! I take pride in the way my horses look after I have spent hours getting them polished and ready, and then showing them off to the best of my ability. I have spent time and effort getting Genie well schooled and well mannered, and like showing people what I have achieved with her, while at the moment Milly goes more for the outing but I want to show her more seriously soon.

At the level I show at (local level) I'll admit it can be disheartening when the County level people show up, but the ones I have spoken to are SO nice and if you have any questions they will be only too keen to answer them and give you tips. I had the joy of winning a very strong M&M class with G a few weeks ago, beating one of those that does well at County, and she was so polite and congratulated me and was genuinely pleased for me as we had been chatting before the class went in.

I'd like to take Milly county, and I'm prepared to come nowhere with her no matter how well she does, but I am looking forward to the experience!
 
Thank you Fihunt and congratulations. I just couldn't bring myself to pay money to enter I class that I was sure I couldn't win or at least get prize money, unless I was just starting out! But having fun is what equestrianism comes down to.
 
I am new to showing, but only at rc local level. We do the ex race horse classes. So far I have really enjoyed these and we have been placed each time out. I feel that showing has a place for everyone. We also do showjumping and dressage. So for me showing is just something that we are having a go at for fun.
 
I have shown my 2 years olds sincce i had them as foals.i think it does them the world of good seeing new things and traveling, everything really and its quite fun too, well for me as i can't ride them yet!
 
I am sure you are right. However, perhaps just humour those of us who find it fascinating and enjoyable and appreciate the skill shown by the top riders! THe summer issues of H&H sell out pretty quickly - which appear to be when there are the most showing reports. So someone must think it is worth putting reports into H&H!!! I am sure that they wouldn't put them in if there was no demand ...
 
Of course there is a point to showing. Although you might not realise it, it's actually a rather big business in the UK, there are plenty of people making their living out of showing horses and ponies. It's not just about the pony clubbers in synthetic saddles you see at Little Piddle show one Saturday in August.

Showing is just that - a chance to show off your horse's conformation, manners and type. It is there to showcase good breeding - judges are looking for the best example of each type, be it hack, cob, riding horse, show hunter pony. Horses must have clean limbs and clean movement, and in ridden classes must give a ride to type as well. It is a chance to show off how balanced your horse is, its ability to show 4 different paces in a short space of time, how it can give a mannerly ride that you would like to spend a day on as a lady (a hack) or out on the hunting field (a hunter). It is designed to showcase good breeding.

Believe it or not, it is bl**dy difficult to get a horse going as well as you see at HOYS. It takes years of producing and schooling to get them going like that, and your averge joe horse wouldn't last 2 minutes in an affiliated ring. Which is partly why all the people on here complain :rolleyes: Showing is very specific - a horse is either to type or not - and it is this that people do not like. You are judging to type, and a lot of people cannot accept that their horse is not a good example of that type, be it in looks or way of going or both. It's a lovely world where you have to know what you're doing in order to suceed - and people realise that when they go to shows and come last! And such is the nature of showing, you either learn from it, keep getting better and trying or you come online and complain that it was all fixed because it was someone's opinion!
 
Ha ha - you are brave to post this!

For me I completely agree with your sentiments! I really can not be doing with showing.

However it would appear that a lot of people do not feel the same way as me (hence the popularity of it!) so if they enjoy scrubbing obese horses and it floats their boat then I can live with that :) And tbh am happy for it to have coverage in H&H, if only for me to be able to thank my lucky stars my horses are slimmer than theirs!

WH looks quite fun .... well the jumping bit at any rate!
 
I show my ex racer at high unaffiliated/low affiliated level ie trailblazers,uk chasers ,ex racer club and we are going for our first county show in a few weeks (eek!) . We do dressage and combined training as well. I have no transport so I make the most of my outings and showing is an ideal way as on most outings I can enter 4/5 different classes and get the ring expierience he needs(can be a bit lively !) I have a few issues with jumping in public due to past bad horse choices and generally being pushed when I shouldn't have been (isn't hindsight a wonderful thing !) so I am working through that at home at the moment - I can just about hold it together for a combined training course or a working hunter. I enjoy the feedback from showing although it is subjective - I try and take the comments on board and they have been pretty consistent. It also has allowed me to go to someof the bigger shows/overnight trips/three day shows which I would never be able to achieve in the sj/dressage arenas. I find it more of an all round education eg tends to be more going on at showing shows,tend to be more of all day thing and in my area the showing shows tend to be a bit more relaxed(or so I have found) so if we are having a bad day I can enter more classes at short notice ,ask to go in and not be judged so we can calm down and focus.
 
Thanks for your opinion teagreen, I have no doubt that the people that go to HOYS work hard, but compare the way of going of those horses at the pinacle of their sport to dressage horses at Inter II and Grand Prix..... I know that dressage is a different sport but what I'm saying is the quality is far better, and the hard work is far more evident. I have been to HOYS many times, and seen much of the entertainment including the showing, and I just don't think the horses and ponies display anywhere near the athleticism of a top dressage horse, showjumper, or event horse. In fact, I'm usually completely underwhelmed with their ordinariness and at times upset by their weight. You are clearly a show rider, and you seem to have a lovely attitude towards the competitive side of it. It's just not a competition to me when it's based on someone's opinion. But i understand more now so thanks you.
 
Ihatework I love your signature by the way, and your quote "if they enjoy scrubbing obese horses and it floats their boat then I can live with that" made me chuckle!
 
Interesting post and I can see your point... but I think you can say that about just about anything really. What's the point of jumping? Ok, you have to leave the poles standing, but why? To win.
What's the point in dressage? It is equally as subjective as showing, with someone deciding which marks you do and don't get. What's the point of anything...??
The underlining point to ALL of these disciplines is, without exception, for entertainment/enjoyment of the rider and/or spectators.

I think there are two questions raised here... 'what is the point?' which I have touched upon above, and 'what is showing?'...
They are two different questions with two different answers. If the question is 'What is showing?'... as the answer to 'what is showjumping?' would be 'to leave the poles up and get round in the fastest time'... I think the answer would be to produce your horse so that their manners, presence, way of going, turnout and condition, etc. is such that they can stand out above a ring full of other ponies of the same type/colour as the 'best' in that ring at that time. That this is any less of a skill than leaving some poles on a rail, I don't agree. Obviously there is a lot taken into consideration in the show ring, including performance, conformation, turn out, etc etc. For the horses, it's important that they give the judge a good ride. They have to be schooled to perfection to make them easy, effortless, safe, comfortable and responsive rides. And equally the ponies have to appear to give a faultless individual show for their riders.
However, to the question 'What is the point?' the answer is purely and simply 'for our enjoyment'.

Yes it is true that the 'faces' and big names often win classes... but is this not often because they are riding the better horses and equally so that they are incredibly skilled at what they do? At the end of the day, there is a reason my RI is a professional producer and I am not... because she knows her stuff and she gets the best out of almost every pony she touches, so she is much more likely to go in and win, even on a novice pony, than I would be.

That's my view anyway. I enjoy showing and I see no need to have any other reason than that. :)
 
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I understand this point 'LittleSoph', but all I hear from showing people is 'produce'... Using your example of showjumping, an incredible amount of producing goes into these horses, albeit in a different (and I would argue more technical and skillfull) way. Their turnout and preparation and similarly as important.
 
I think that some times horses that show are looked on as just that but there was a fab photo in H&H a while back that showed three show horses hunting (think one of them may have been Silverstream) and actually showing is a by product of the all round education that alot of show horses have (again there was a post on here a while back about novice horses having their first trips out to a local dressage comp. I think it is all about finding a niche for a horse as well - mine will never go above novice level at dressage as he is too long in the back and finds the confines of a school at the moment too much but he improves tend fold when out on grass in a larger space. A couple of people have said that what puts them off is that it is based on opinion but so is dressage to an extent although the scales of training provides a structure it is still based on interpretation of this.
 
LittleSoph - honestly, I suspect there is no point trying to answer - if someone doesn't see the point in something then no reasonable response will change their minds! Good answer though!!

It is pretty much like saying what is the point in hunting and why does that go into Horse and Hound (apart from the title of the mag ...)

The thing is, there are eventing magazines, dressage magazines but MANY more showing magazines around the country. So showing people appear to be in the majority rather than the minority. However, they have their own forums and websites, so not many come onto H&H.

SHowing helps ensure correct breeding for many types of horse and pony. Our M&M breeds would have suffered even more, were showing not considered a sport. Many show horses (for example the Queen's HOYS riding horse has gone eventing with Zara) go onto other jobs. The skill in producing highly strung horses so that a judge is able to hop on board in the middle of a county show ground is something that takes years to perfect.
 
TT - what do you think professional show producers do all day then to earn their living?

It's not about just sitting on a horse and tottering around an arena. It's about getting a horse to go well in any conditions, under different riders, getting them to collect and extend when needed, getting them to gallop flat out then stand stock still for an hour in the middle of Royal Windsor showground. You have no idea the ringcraft needed to survive and win in a hunter class.
 
'Martlin' you say that dressage is just as subjective as showing but I disagree. I think that BD judges are very good and rarely have I seen a horse win that I don't think did the movements correctly. The judges are trained to judge the horse on how it performs it movements along with how it's ridden and it's carriage etc. I think proof of this is that you don't see dressage riders moaning about judges, only showing riders, although this could just be a product of the people..... :-) Jokes!

Referring to "toomanyhorses26", I know that some showing horses do other sports, it just seems pointless to me if they do well at them then why go showing?
 
'FMM', no need to get arsey we're having a discussion! I don't need to change my opinion in order to respect others peoples! I've said that I appreciate the points people are making, it doesn't mean that I'm going to agree.
 
To the outsider a showing class looks easy - just tootle round and then put the horse back on the lorry.

Not so. It takes weeks of preparation grooming and schooling and then getting it all right on the day. I couldn't believe it last year when for the first time in his life my horse started on an incorrect canter lead - in the main arena of the local county show.
Perhaps I wasn't concentrating enough.

As for what is the point - well what is the point of ANY competition? It is something to aim at and work towards and maybe when you get over 50 the idea of cantering round on the flat and not galloping over huge fences might be more attractive. And you don't have to learn a dressage test either, much more relaxing.
 
FMM said:
LittleSoph - honestly, I suspect there is no point trying to answer - if someone doesn't see the point in something then no reasonable response will change their minds! Good answer though!!
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Thanks, lol. You are probably right.

Just wanted to add Ihatework, my horse isn't and never will be, obese.

And TeamTotilas... I'd like to hear your definition of how dressage is won, if it isn't someone's opinion?? Surely that's exactly what it is?
 
"You don't see dressage riders moaning about the judges" ...

I beg to differ - just read some of the threads in competition riders!!!!!

Interestingly, several well known dressage judges are on the affiliated showing panels - for example - Jenny Loriston Clarke, David Hunt. There is quite a lot of cross discipline action for judges as well as competitors. I hadn't realised how much until I became more involved.

In addition, if a horse is "not quite good enough" for its chosen discipline at top level, several of them can end up as good showing horses and do very well in that sphere instead. We have had showjumpers and racehorses which have turned out to be successful show horses.
 
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'LittleSoph' like I said I'm not trying to offend anyone, this is an interesting discussion and if you find my views so offensive then there's no need to be here. Like I said, just because I'm not changing my mind doesn't mean I'm not listening.
Dressage is completely different because it is about performing specific movements, not just doing a 'show'. Compare the movements to obstacles in showjumping or cross country. This is coupled with the guidelines of the scales of training that accompany the movements and how the horse is going. If you are saying that someone believing that a horse isn't "true to type", which I have witnessed many a person disagree on, is the same as someone determining whether a horse has performed a movement, then I'm afraid I'm not the one to help you!
 
Sorry point not put across very well - suppose what I am saying (only based on my own expierinces) is that a horse that shows and shows well I have found to be a far more adaptable,less spooky and easy going animal than some of the 'we only do one activity' animals. To me a horse that shows should be calm,adaptable to change(ie change of rider etc) be able to focus on the rider regardless of what is occurring around them and be true to type . When you go to the big county/association shows the amount of other activity going on sometimes is immense and for the horses to keep their cool in that sort of atmosphere is a testament to the rider and trainers.
 
FMM said:
THe summer issues of H&H sell out pretty quickly - which appear to be when there are the most showing reports. So someone must think it is worth putting reports into H&H!!! I am sure that they wouldn't put them in if there was no demand ...
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Nooooooooooooo, it's because the eventing reports are in!!!!!:D:p:D

Sorry I have nothing constructive to add, so i'll keep quiet ;)!!!!!!
 
'Toomanyhorses26' I understand your point.
And Charlimouse........ I agree about the eventing comment, that is clearly why! :-)
 
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