Is there any point to showing?

I was going to say, yes it's pointless, but after reading all the posts, I have changed my mind! Very well written arguments people. I have been won over. Maiko your post really does cover all the points well.
 
Because people enjoy it.

Perhaps they don't have a horse good enough to showjump or take them round a XC (although I'm sure many do)

Maybe they don't want to do BE or something that is more dangerous, due to the cost or should they get injured etc, they could loose their job or not be able to look after their children etc

Perhaps showing, gives a mum and daughter (for example) a good day out, bonding time while also spending time with their ponies etc

Of course you can do all this in other disiplines but there is much more to showing that winning prizes.

However for those that do win, those that put alot of time and money into it, why shouldnt they have their pride of place in H&H.
 
I use it as an oppertunity to get him used to the atmosphere and help him settle better away from home, its a nice day out without the pressure.

I do think some people on my yard take it far too seriously though, its the end of the world if they come second!

Personally I like to have a go at everything and showing was on the list :)
 
I personally think showing gives a brilliant grounding for a young horse (both in-hand and ridden).

Travelling to shows, trotting and cantering in a group, having to put up with all sorts of scary things around the ring (bouncy castles, rifle ranges and goodness knows what else!), being schooled to produce a foot perfect show and then perform perfectly with a strange rider. Its not easy to train a horse to gallop flat out and then come back to walk in a few strides with no (visible ;) ) effort

If anyone thinks its easy to train/produce a young scatty TB who is in peak condition (not fat, but bursting with health and vitality) to do all that then they really are kidding themselves.

Yes to win at top level you also need a beautifully put together horse, but if it doesnt perform or gets over awed by its surroundings then you aint going to win.

Seems a shame to me that more dressage horses dont do a bit of showing before they specialise. Maybe there would be less explosions because a bowl of flowers is by the ring, or someone claps or coughs while they are 'performing'. Bet they would be a good deal less precious if they had done a few shows! :)
 
I think the reason that there are articles in H&H on showing is because people want to read it about it!

H&H is a business after all and to increase their circulation the more variety of equine persuits they cover the more people will buy it. Showing has become really popular as anyone can do it young or old, you don't need to be able to ride as you can do in hand classes and there are a wide range of classes for all sort of horses and ponies.

It is also good for adults who want to ride ponies as there are no ages restrictions on the M&M or coloured classes or in hand classes.

I know people think it is facey but there have been some amateurs and home produced people who have won at Olympia and HOYs and who regularily qualify for showing championship at the top level whereas at the top levels of BE/BD/BSJA it is dominated by professionals.

I do some dressage during the spring and I don't go into that thinking I am going to win or be placed as I have no idea who else will enter and how good they will be and that goes the same for SJ how well you do depends the standards of your competitors not just your ability.

Quite a few people who show also do other things as well with their horses and ponies such as RC or PC and hacking out and jumping.
 
I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE showing, I only properly got into it last year, and it has sort of lessened any passion I had for jumping XC and jumping (I still WH sometimes :) )
I love the summer shows, qulaifying for big events, the tradtition of the sport, and the evening performances of course :D
I agree with fihunt, I really enjoy spending the time to get my horse looking the best she can look, and then doing well in the ring. Pippa isnt a show horse, she was bred to jump, so she's never going to win a riding horse class at HOYS level, but people now comment on how nice her trot is, how much she has improved since last year.
The fact you dont have a passion for a particular sport, doesnt mean that its nessacarily boring or overun with fat horses :) (plus, its not the horse who has the much showshine on that wins ;) ) I now dislike jumping, I find it incredibly stressful and its over in about a minute, I actually like the fact that in showing, you have time in the ring to prepare.
So yeah, I love showing, but that doesnt mean that everyone else has to, ok? :)
I also think there should be a showing section on this forum :D
x
 
TeamTotilas said:
'Martlin' you say that dressage is just as subjective as showing but I disagree. I think that BD judges are very good and rarely have I seen a horse win that I don't think did the movements correctly. The judges are trained to judge the horse on how it performs it movements along with how it's ridden and it's carriage etc. I think proof of this is that you don't see dressage riders moaning about judges, only showing riders, although this could just be a product of the people..... :-) Jokes!

Referring to "toomanyhorses26", I know that some showing horses do other sports, it just seems pointless to me if they do well at them then why go showing?
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Affiliated showing judges also undergo significant training to ensure that they are looking for the right thing and are judging consistently. I know two people that are currently training as judges one with BSPS (I can't remember the organisation the other is training with, could be SHGB) and the training is really very rigorous.

Many of the negative comments relate to unaffliated shows where they judge may well be judging a class he isn't used to, be completely unqualified, or very inexperienced. Certainly for BSPS workers they have score sheets and scoring systems very similar to dressage. I have heard as many negative comments about dressage judges at unaffiliated level. The judging can be inconsistent and show bias, I've seen classes that favour big flashy warmbloods over a correct but less flashy cob or native, I've seen combinations win when they probably shouldn't have and I have had wildly different comments from two different judges about the same horse on the same day.

Showing and dressage are both subjective, (WH is obviously not entirely subjective as the fences count for so much) and really if you argue against one as a sport you lay the foundations for arguing that the other isn't a sport too!
 
Goodness, such posts as this never cease to amaze me. As always, it's just blinding accusations from a totally uneducated point of view.

" All the horses are too fat, rugged to death and just go around in circles all day"
My show horse is certainly not fat, he is out 24 hours a day naked and he does a bit of everything, though only being 5.

It's irritating to get tarred by the same brush, as some individuals.
I've seen fat horses in dressage, show jumping and God knows what else.
Just as I wouldn't take a filthy horse to any competition, I enjoy to make him look smart.

Showing is a fantastic sport and takes alot of patience and skill. I do wish that people would stop dismissing it as just a beauty contest.
 
Good grief! Where does all the animosity come from? Why do people have to even explain what they do if they enjoy it? Why should anyone feel the need to defend themselves? As long as the horse doesn't suffer...and please don't start on obesity again as point taken....then what is the issue? in defence of showing..if it was such a mindless activity why would international, olympic medallists from ALL disciplines want to be on the panels and judge these horses? They DO go on to do other things. Mine started in the showring to give them some experience of life and have all gone on to do other disciplines, all of them successfully. It's a starting ground not a lifelong activity to go showing to give them something to do which, hopefully, won't injure them. I don't believe in fat horses either...but some of mine live on fresh air despite the lack of grass!
 
Oftttt but what is the 'point' to eventing or show jumping or even dressage, no 'point' just something we do HAAH!!!

Only read the first page so don't know what every one else has said or whether I am repeating or what ever!!!

I'm 16 and show arabs both inhand and unsaddle to national level, but yet still an amature!!! and very successful!!!

It annoys me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much when people 'dis' showing HA HA!!!

I love how people think it's soooo easy to show, and swan up to a county with a couple of locals under their belt then have a paddy becuase they didn't do very well!!! And that is when everyone goes ''oh they only won coz they are pros'' erm no.

I adore showing, where as a lot of teenagers my age are wizzing round sj courses or hunter trials, I love taking the care and paying the attention to detail which is needed for showing. Showing is such a perfectionists sport, it requires complete disaplin from the horse, and the horse must be cool calm and collected at ALl times in every pace even for a stranger!!!

For showing you are basically producing a horse for someone else, and I get such a buzz out of a judge saying ''he gave me a phanominal ride!'' where as with any other discapline you can get away with a badly schooled or naughty horse becuase as long as you can ride it thats fine!!! With showing no corners on schooling can be cut, and along with your horse having to be perfectly schooled, mannerly and balanced it must have good confo and be 'correct'

alot of non-showing people don't realize the work that goes into producing a top class show horse. Alot goes into preparing them, and people that say they are just unfit and over weight are incorrect, yes some ponies are over weight but you wouldn't think twice if you saw an over weight pony any other kind of show! And for the fitness side, my horses would be as fit as some low level eventers if they are at top level, it requires ALOT of skill and balance from a horse to remain in a collected canter for 5 laps of a large arena if it is a large class!!! You can't have your horse dying on the judge!!! Even inhand horses that I have produced are all lunged or exercised in some way twice a day!!! My horse does everything any other horse does, and alot of galloping work is done to develop the muscles and increase fittness

I adore the pleasure I get out of producing a horse to a high standard and a judge getting on it and riding with a huge grin on their face!!!

Showing is about the horse and breed, keeping the breed correct... and keeping tradition, showing is such a smart SPORT, everyone is smart and turn out impeccabliy!!! where as show jumping you can where those weird things that look like rain coats ;) :P ha ha!!!

I believe showing should be respected not diss'ed it certainly isn't easy hense why if you don't know what you are doing you can't swan up to a county and do well!!! it takes ALOT of Time and preperation!!!

I love the intermate side of it where the judge rides your horse and analysis every spec to find the best horse in the class!!! and can tell the horses temperment and can enjoy the horse where as dressage just watch the horse prance round a box then say 'lovely horse' they don't really know whether it is a lovely horse they don't know what it is like to ride or what it's like to handle!!!

Showing in my eyes is the perfectionist sport and not something that can be rushed, you have to respect it and the people that do it, we put ALOT of time and effort into our horses!!!

Oh and please ignore my spelling in this haha!!! my mac is broken (boo hoo) and on a pc ha ha!!! and it doesn't show my spelling errors!!!

xxxxx
 
Because they enjoy it! Why do people SJ etc for the same reasons horses have to be just as well schooled and produced to do SJ as they do in schooling in my opinion.

I show my horse and enjoy it, that doesn't mean i agree with pumping him up full of energy feed and making him so fat hes gonna burst or make him at risk of getting laminitis because in my opinion that is just wrong! And to say its on how pretty your horse is isn't true even if your horse is the prettisest one there is it plaits or has a bad action it isn't going to win a class

However i think it is very subjective to say what the point in a sport when you admit you have never competed in it yourself but i suppose once you have made a decision then it is hard to change your mind however most eventers etc have been shown as youngsters so perhaps it play a more important role in getting horses use to the environment thatn you may think
 
I have always wondered about the OP, is she talking the talk. Her user name makes me wonder. Seems all her posts are about letting us know how professional she is, OR is she walking the walk, doubt it.
 
Have skimmed through the thread. Just like to point out why I like showing. I own a Fell pony, I bought him because I love the breed and think they are awesome. In thier opening post the OP asks why, if people want to compete, they don't just do BE, BSJA or BD. My boy is 13.2hh and quite chunky - for all he is awesome no amount of schooling will enable him to compete in those disciplines at a decent level. I'm planning on doing unaffiliated dressage, sj and x-country with him but the thing that we can do and where we can compete up to a higher level, where we can affiliate, qualify for championships and aim high and try and beat the pros is showing. I'm aiming (one day in the future) to do ridden classes and M&M workers with him. I'm competitive and would like to compete and not just hack (although nothing wrong with that) however I don't really want a TB or warmblood - I love natives, especially fells and with showing I can compete against other fells or natives on a level playing field where everyone is the same type (because lets be fair even with all the practice in the world my little guy is never going to sj against TBs and WBs and win!). I don't want to be restricted in the future to going to local unaffiliated stuff I would love to compete my boy at the Great Yorkshire or Lincoln Show (or some of the smaller agricultural shows first maybe!!) if we prove good enough and showing will give us that opportunity (also - those types of shows are a blinking good day out, you can't usually beat the WI tea tent!). :D
 
I don't think showing is any more 'facey' than dressage.

I love showing because it helps ensure breed standards and because it's about showing off what a well mannered, well schooled, well adjusted horse or pony someone has.

Rarely will you find a horse or pony that does well in the show ring that isn't capable of being a safe hack, going on sponsored rides, doing a decent dressage test and if they do working hunter classes, they will be able to show jump and hunt too.

How many dressage horses or show jumpers are that versatile?

I also like my horses to have good conformation and be a good example of their breed or type but realise that not everyone cares about this even though having a horse with good conformation means it is more likely to stay sound that one that hasn't.

Personally, I love making my horses look their best and showing off how well behaved they are (or not :P), this is what attracts me to showing.
 
I love showing, as long as I don't do coblets! LOL!

It's actually a freaking hard discipline, so I can see why a mere eventer, or dressage fan, might not get it. I mean, can you tell the difference between 8 identical horses in a line up?

I can.

There's no poles to knock down, no manouvers to mess up, no obsticles to refuse. It's pure, unadulterated skill.

That skill starts when you pick your horse. Often as a youngster, or out of condition. You have to see the potential in them. Then the conditioning starts, schooling to perfection, feeding right, grooming right, buying the right tack, the right coloured gear.

It's hard, it's expensive. It's frustrating when you know your horse is NEVER going to be the right shape to do well, and there's nothing you can do! It's frustrating when a plan falls apart.

But when you're pulled in at the top, and you get your rossette, you know that you didn't buy the horse who jumped the highest or the fasted, or the prettiest diamonte browband - you bought a horse and you worked your fingers to the bone clipping, trimming, pulling, plaiting, cleaning, schooling and turning that horse into the best damn horse in the ring.

It's addictive. Give me a show ring before a cross country course anyday!
 
Well, I sit somewhere in the middle with this one.

I like showing as it allows my youngsters to get out and educated before they are backed, my boy certainly would not have his lovely temperment if I hadnt showed him.

However, it is very subjective and there is still a lot of "who knows the judge" stuff going on which can be frustrating.
My friends youngster was consistently placed in the bottom half of the line up and then at BEF got best yearling in the UK.

So who is right and who is wrong? I dont know!

I enjoy XC and it establishes a totally different relationship. Your horse has to 100% trust you, be brave etc, showing cannot be compared to it.

So, I do see the point to showing.

Lastly, it is certainly the equine sport where we are seen more by Joe Public than the other disciplines (county shows etc). That has to be a good thing for the equine industry as a whole!
 
Harper-Gal you have just summed up showing perfectly and that is why I love it.
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Thats why I love it!

Although, am disheartened that plan "get mare a baby belly to fill in her overly long back" plan has failed... And now she's a dodgey looking fleabitten grey, which never seems to go down well, so I don't think we'll show as a cob again!

I'd LOVE to do sidesaddle with her though!
 
I think it is an interesting discussion. As far as I know, showing only exists in the UK. I have heard a lot of people ask 'what is the point of showing' because it is such a strange concept for non-British people to grasp. Everybody (me included!) ends up saying, "I would understand the point about it being a showcase for breeding etc, IF the horses were all stallions or mares! But what is the point of showing a gelding?"

Also you can't compare showing to dressage, even at the very highest level of showing there are no movements to perform. Do showing horses do a diagonal of 15 one tempis, or pirouettes, or piaffe or passage or half-passes?

Yes there are judges marking the combinations in dressage, but this is far from being subjective - there are movements to perform and these need to be executed. What the judge marks is the execution of the movement, not the horse itself.

A judge can be head over heels in love with Sterntaler, but if Sterntaler does not excecute 12 steps of piaffe at X, then irrespective of how pretty, well-trained etc he is he will get a 3 or 4 for that movement.
 
Showing is big business in South Africa and Australia. Our UK judges are much in demand over there and some of them now spend the winter months teaching and judging over there. Many stallions are also exported to improve their stock.
 
FrodoBeutlin said:
Also you can't compare showing to dressage, even at the very highest level of showing there are no movements to perform. Do showing horses do a diagonal of 15 one tempis, or pirouettes, or piaffe or passage or half-passes?
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While you want your horse to perform 'movements' that are totally unnatural, I certainly have no desire to make my horse do them - just doesn't appeal.

I would much rather see a horse in a show class striding out with beautiful straight movement and balance. Showing is not about 'movements' - does that make it less of an achievement to produce a show horse?
 
FMM yes, I should have said Commonwealth countries rather than UK; what I meant is that it is not widespread, there is nothing comparable in the rest of Europe for instance.

Teddybully, there is absolutely nothing unnatural in dressage - haven't you ever seen horses passage or piaffe in the field?! Everything is natural, flying changes, passage etc come naturally even to foals!
 
FrodoBeutlin said:
Teddybully, there is absolutely nothing unnatural in dressage - haven't you ever seen horses passage or piaffe in the field?! Everything is natural, flying changes, passage etc come naturally even to foals!
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I can't say I have ever seen a horse piaffe in a field no. Maybe I haven't watched enough horses in fields.

Why would a horse piaffe - what is the point of doing it or teaching it? (genuinely interested) as I seen it described as the 'ultimate submission' so interested in other views.
 
No, definitely not ultimate submission - it's the ultimate collection!!

A couple of years ago there was a stunning video of a top sire, Weltmeyer if I remember correctly, piaffing in the field to show off to some mares who were in the next paddock. I have tried to look for it but can't find it :(
So, in nature, horses (stallions) would piaffe or passage when they are excited / to show off etc; my horse piaffes whenever I am trying to lead him and he is excited because he sees other horses or is in a new place etc.

In terms of ridden piaffe, historically it was taught because it is the best preparation for a levade; therefore essential in a battle context. A war horse had to know how to piaffe in order to be able to sit on his haunches and support himself in the case of a levade (which again was equally essential as, and I quote from memory, 'often the only means to escape from an opponent', though I know nothing about ancient warfare so I am not sure how going up could help defeat an opponent, unless of course you then landed on top of him...ha, maybe that's it then ;) ) Even today, it is often said that when you see a horse piaffe you should always have the impression that he could go up at any time, because that is what distinguishes a real, sitting piaffe from a 'leg piaffe' which you do sometimes see in competition (where the legs move diagonally but the horse is not really sitting).

Sorry for the essay.
 
What a brilliant explanation for piaffe FB...I never thought about the difference between a proper sitting piaffe and one of those leggy ones, all I know is watching I knew that the latter wasn't right.
 
I know, I read it years ago and suddenly everything made sense! Perhaps they should introduce levades in GP tests, then we'd have quite a few surprises at the top end ;)



When we started working on the piaffe in-hand with Rauti, he was attempting mini rears quite frequently. I got a little worried and asked my trainer if this was normal, and she reassured me that it's actually a good sign (because it means, precisely, that he is sitting) and that it is a natural development of a good piaffe.
 
Yeah, I've never thought about it before but thats was obviously why when I watched some piaffes I just didn't like what I saw!

The first time we tried to teach rein back with the Welsh Cob he went vertical, but it was so balanced I think he could have some hidden lipizzaner (sp?) in his breeding ;) it always make me feel quite positive that we may one day be able to something that resembles a piaffe!! He's got a big enough back end to sit on anyway!!
 
Because gelding have parents and a good gelding is worth a lot of money (it is quite hard to find livery yards that accept stallions or allow them to live an unrestricted life and not everyone can handle a sensitive stallions especially the smaller children so geldings are really popular)

Being a gelding does not change the way a horse moves or its conformation. It is not how great the stallion is but the quality of their offspring that makes money in breeding. If I was choosing a horse I would looking at not just the parents but what their other offspring were like. Geldings are too a good advertisement for a stud if they do well it might encourage other people looking for potential geldings to buy from the stud or from the same stallion. For example not many people who are buying lead rein ponies are looking for stallions. There are top competition horses in all disciplines that are geldings.

FrodoBeutlin said:
"I would understand the point about it being a showcase for breeding etc, IF the horses were all stallions or mares! But what is the point of showing a gelding?"
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Thank you everyone for your contributions. I have heard both very intellectual sides of the argument and very ignorant ones! All worth hearing and very interesting.
 
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