Is there (or should there be) a ceiling weight to horse riding

[Shilasdair]

I don't think anyone over 6 stone should ride a horse.

 

[Andrew657]

Red Rum won the Grand National carrying 12st.

Racing weight includes saddle riders boots/hat etc - which for a leisure rider will probably add 2 stone plus to bathroom scales weight.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Racing weight includes saddle riders boots/hat etc - which for a leisure rider will probably add 2 stone plus to bathroom scales weight.

+ 2.5 stone over nekked weight for me and that was summer wear (as per my avatar).

Ideal event saddle inc stirrups, girth etc, bridle, HS1 crash hat, short leather boots, 1/2 chaps, air jacket, jodhs, polo shirt etc.

 

[Tarragon]

B) they worked in the way that was best for them, they weren't subjected to what we think is biomechanically right, or had bungee's/draw reins plonked on them, or hauled into broken at the 3rd vertebrae and over bent outlines. (Sweeping statement).

Possibly true, and I know that you say it is a sweeping statement, but the description of the use of bearing reins in Black Beauty (my horsey bible!) would have been contemporary, sadly. Plus the abuse of horses because they were perhaps also just seen as a commodity (also in Black Beauty!). I remember a cartoon where a young lad was being told off by his father for crashing his horse drawn carriage into a tree, as an equivalent of a young lad having his first car crash due to reckless driving.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I don’t think it is fair to ride at all if extremely overweight . It shouldn’t be what they logistically can but what is comfortable for them.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

This is a very difficult and emotive subject unfortunately. I think the biggest problem is the lack of good, long term studies.
I'm 5' 11" and currently weigh 15st 7lbs. I have chronic health issues, and the related meds, that make it bloody hard to exercise on a regular basis for losing weight but I'm getting there slowly. My own horses are a weak 16.1 cob x Connemara with 9" bone and a 15.1 cob with 11.5" bone. The latter carries me without batting an eyelid and the former will be doing some very light work with me until I've lost enough weight. I also hop on my friends cob for a walk down the road and back just to keep him ticking over, he's only 13.3 but built like the proverbial outhouse.
Now, the key here is that a) I am working on losing weight (my end goal would be approx 12st) b) I ride in correctly fitted synthetic saddles which are lightweight and checked every 2-3 months c) I have very regular vet checks and physio sessions done on the horses, again approx 2-3 months or sooner if needed.
Both vet and physio are happy for me to do the work with the horses they are currently doing but I'm extremely mindful that I need to get my weight down before upping their workload.
I think there are so many factors involved and you have to be realistic and, most of all, honest with yourself about your weight and the fit of the Horse. If I was over 16st I personally wouldn't ride until I lost weight.

 

[ycbm]

There been some discussion about horses doing more work in olden times, but a bit over 40 years ago when I first got into horse owning any horse over 8 years old was described as "aged", the maximum value of a horse was between 8 and 10 years old, and once over 10 the value began to drop markedly as they were already considered to be old and a fair way to being worn out.
.

 

[Widgeon]

There been some discussion about horses doing more work in olden times, but a bit over 40 years ago when I first got into horse owning any horse over 8 years old was described as "aged", the maximum value of a horse was between 8 and 10 years old, and once over 10 the value began to drop markedly as they were already considered to be old and a fair way to being worn out.
.

Yes this is true, we expect our horses to last *much* longer now.

 

[holeymoley]

What about age too? Should we reduce the weight carried as they age? Or should it be dependent on condition and fitness?

I'm heavier just now than I've been, and my horse isn't getting any younger. We seem to do okay but I have it in the back of my head now perhaps I'm getting a bit heavy for him. He's 14.1hh, 8 inch of bone cob x native so not flimsy but not a chunk. I'm 5ft2 and wavering between 57.6kg and 58kg (9stone) I always used to be between 8 and 8.5 stone. He's 19 now and has no qualms with anything but it's always a thought in my mind.

 

[ester]

I think it mostly depends on their condition/fitness/topline.

 

[RachelFerd]

I'm pretty sure that there is evidence that anything above 10% of the horse's weight has a negative impact on the horse in terms of how quickly they tire, how much it impacts their movement and so on.

I am not 10% of my horse's bodyweight - i'm more like 12% of his weight. I look 'about right' on him - I would be horrified to see someone who was more than 15% on him, because he is a fine horse with not great back conformation. 20% of his weight would look awful.

I do work to maintain a suitable weight and try and keep myself as close to 10% as I can - how can I expect him to jump big tracks if I'm more of a hindrance than I should be. If I was only pottering around a prelim dressage test it would be less important.

I regularly feel very uncomfortable about the size of riders I see on horses at competitions. I know it is emotive, but we don't give our horses any choice in the matter and so it is completely on us to act responsibly.

 

[Tash88]

@abbijay who is this person on Facebook you're referring to? Does she think she's some sort of body positive influencer or something?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Who would police this? How would they distinguish between the maximum weight for a Shetland and that for a Shire? Who would decide what a heavyweight Hunter could carry as opposed to a Maxi-Cob? Are we talking about RS horses, privately owned horses, show horses, police horses, cavalry horses?

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

OK so I'm going to stick my neck out here and be prepared to be hated despite the fact that I'd like to think of myself as a fairly 'woke' person but if you ride a horse that you are too heavy for you are as abusive as someone who beats or starves their horse. How this weight to horse-carrying ability is calculated is subject to some debate depending on horse's type, fitness, saddle fit, rider ability and fitness and so on but I'm afraid that I don't subscribe to the view that everyone should be able to ride anything and anyone who offers criticism is politically incorrect. I'm afraid that to my mind the horse's welfare trumps anyone's 'entitlement' to ride. So kill me now.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I think people get over obsessed with weight. Certainly there are some extreme combinations and levels of work that just shouldn’t happen but we do so many things with horses that are damaging. I think being on the heavy side is probably one that causes least issues although may be an added factor.

The vast majority of issues I’ve experienced with my horses are most likely due to being started too young and being drilled to be competitive in the chosen discipline whether it be dressage, show-jumping, eventing etc. I sure the likes of Mary King and Mark Todd have broken far more horses than the average amateur rider.

I’m pretty sure my two boys have a better more comfortable life dragging my 11.5st around hacking and doing moderate schooling than when they were schooled umpteen times a week even if ridden by a waif of a young girl.

I did get up to just over 14st at one point but I don’t think either of my horses exactly suffered. I feel so much better myself though having lost weight and improved my diet.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

......

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I’m totally confused, there Are two of these threads running.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...-be-a-ceiling-ability-to-horse-riding.807230/

No, one is regarding weight and the other is regarding ability.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

No, one is regarding weight and the other is regarding ability.

thanks, sorry just spotted that ?

 

[windand rain]

I think there is a limit but not necessarily the 20% thing a 500kg highand pony this short back, short flat cannons, and a well muscled and slim body mass could easily carry more than 100kgs a 500kg tb with underdeveloped frame, long back badly set on neck and weak through the loin would struggle with that 100kgs. If a horse is obese it cannot carry a big rider as it is already carrying hundreds of kgs extra on its joints. Heavy horses may well be nearly a ton but they are not designed to carry but to pull so again would not be able to carry a heavy rider. I would estimate about 18 stone and a carefully selected horse built with strength and compact body, fully muscled and not fat would be my limit

 

[motherof2beasts!]

OK so I'm going to stick my neck out here and be prepared to be hated despite the fact that I'd like to think of myself as a fairly 'woke' person but if you ride a horse that you are too heavy for you are as abusive as someone who beats or starves their horse. How this weight to horse-carrying ability is calculated is subject to some debate depending on horse's type, fitness, saddle fit, rider ability and fitness and so on but I'm afraid that I don't subscribe to the view that everyone should be able to ride anything and anyone who offers criticism is politically incorrect. I'm afraid that to my mind the horse's welfare trumps anyone's 'entitlement' to ride. So kill me now.

I agree entirely. My pony was just PTS due to back condition and damage , expected to be seen in a much older horse. His last 2 owners were far too heavy too ride him, vet said this almost certainly led to his issues. I only got to ride him a handful of times after buying him before vet retired him.

 

[ozpoz]

There is no rule, guidance or anything else which suggests 20% is ok!
I will be so happy when I stop seeing this ancient army folklore from history being rehashed as if it was scientific data.

 

[mini_b]

I think there is a limit but not necessarily the 20% thing a 500kg highand pony this short back, short flat cannons, and a well muscled and slim body mass could easily carry more than 100kgs a 500kg tb with underdeveloped frame, long back badly set on neck and weak through the loin would struggle with that 100kgs. If a horse is obese it cannot carry a big rider as it is already carrying hundreds of kgs extra on its joints. Heavy horses may well be nearly a ton but they are not designed to carry but to pull so again would not be able to carry a heavy rider. I would estimate about 18 stone and a carefully selected horse built with strength and compact body, fully muscled and not fat would be my limit

18 stone plus tack?

 

[Nudibranch]

I'm not sure anyone takes 20% as hard fact. But it's a fairly useful guide to use a percentage of the horse's weight and more relevant than just saying 10 stone, 15 stone, or whatever.
My 15.1 Dales can clearly carry more than my 16.3 TB could have done. And both could carry more than my 17.3 heavyweight who turned out to have SI and hock issues like many big horses. I was 10% of his weight including tack and that was too much. Personally I stay under 15% as a maximum on any horse but that's my own preference. As a vague equivalent it's like my piggybacking my little boy around when he was about 3. Not too taxing and if I built up my fitness it would be easy.
It's the most reasonable bit of information in a very controversial area and as I said earlier, for big horses (say 17hh plus) 20% should be reduced further.

 

[ester]

Who would police this? How would they distinguish between the maximum weight for a Shetland and that for a Shire? Who would decide what a heavyweight Hunter could carry as opposed to a Maxi-Cob? Are we talking about RS horses, privately owned horses, show horses, police horses, cavalry horses?

See I figured we were talking max weight for the hypothetical most weight carrying horse

 

[Winters100]

There is no rule, guidance or anything else which suggests 20% is ok!
I will be so happy when I stop seeing this ancient army folklore from history being rehashed as if it was scientific data.

I have never got this 20% rule. One of mine would be able to carry almost 100kg on this basis, and I would never expect him to carry anything like that.

I don't really get why this is such a sensitive issue when we are talking about animal welfare - being personally offended is not more important than an animal's health. I recently met a friend who is a very big muscular guy, not fat, but certainly heavy. I had no problem being straightforward and just telling him thet I could not give him a horse because none of mine would manage with his weight, and he was not offended. He has his own horses back home, ones who are suitable to carry 90kg+, but mine are not.

As a 'good-doer' myself I totally get how people struggle with weight, but for me riding is one of the big incentives to keep it in check. I would never dream of criticising anyone for their size, but there is a reality that you need to be a suitable weight for your horse.

It is a funny thing with weight that if you are within a healthy range people somehow assume that you are just made that way. As Scats said the comments of "just have one, you don't need to worry about your weight" can drive you nuts. I think about every small thing I eat or drink, stick to a strict calorie limit. Sometimes I feel really hungry but know that I have had my daily limit so have to do without, but for me being able to ride the horses is a big priority and it is worth it.

Edited to add that maybe it is not good that this is considered such a sensitive subject. At the start of lockdown I gained a couple of lbs, and my other half wasted no time in pointing it out and telling me that I needed to pay attention to it. It was a good reminder, I had been eating for my previous levels of exercise, and had not properly considered how much less I was doing. This prevented me from ignoring the problem and letting weight creep on. Maybe if we were all a little less sensitive about the subject then it would be seen as being just as normal as telling people not to smoke cigarettes or drive in a dangerous fashion.

 

[McFluff]

This is a question that we need to learn how to discuss without the emotion. For the welfare of the horse, if not the human. I say this as someone who battles with their weight, so I do know that it isn’t easy (for many people) to stay in a healthy BMI range. But to be blunt, some of the humans in the ‘looks too much’ combinations out there are not healthy.
To be in the healthy BMI range and weigh 100 kg, you need to be 6’11” or taller.

Anyone who rides needs to consider:
their weight - basic ratio to the horse (allowing for tack)
their build and BMI - what size saddle do they need to fit comfortably
their height and length of limbs - what size do they need to place limbs in best place
their fitness and balance - if unfit or poorly balanced need to be lower weight ratio to horse (as in 10% rather than 15%)
Their ability and what they want to do - can you ride a horse in the optimal frame, is the horse the right type, age, fitness to do what you want etc
the age, stage and training of the horse

if any of these are not optimal, then that will reduce what a horse can (should?) carry.

There are lots of activities where your size, shape and weight affect your ability to take part, and they don’t involve the welfare of an animal. For example,
sea kayaking - most closed kayaks wouldn‘t fit people who are obese, and most top out at 300lbs before they sink!
skydiving (18 st)
cycling (many top out at 100-120 kg)
climbing (advised to Boulder until you have a better height/weight ratio)

So I really don’t get why we treat equipment better than a live animal. I’ve been personally struggling with some of the images on Facebook recently. People in saddles that are way too small for them, people who are too heavy on a wee spindly legged horse. Just not right.

 

[spotty_pony]

Either I am seeing double or is this post posted twice by two separate people?! ? ?

 

[McFluff]

If you mean mine, no, I’ve just posted once. Took me ages to type and others appeared in the meantime. Otherwise I’d have just agreed…

 

[Sussexbythesea]

This is a question that we need to learn how to discuss without the emotion. For the welfare of the horse, if not the human. I say this as someone who battles with their weight, so I do know that it isn’t easy (for many people) to stay in a healthy BMI range. But to be blunt, some of the humans in the ‘looks too much’ combinations out there are not healthy.
To be in the healthy BMI range and weigh 100 kg, you need to be 6’11” or taller.

Anyone who rides needs to consider:
their weight - basic ratio to the horse (allowing for tack)
their build and BMI - what size saddle do they need to fit comfortably
their height and length of limbs - what size do they need to place limbs in best place
their fitness and balance - if unfit or poorly balanced need to be lower weight ratio to horse (as in 10% rather than 15%)
Their ability and what they want to do - can you ride a horse in the optimal frame, is the horse the right type, age, fitness to do what you want etc
the age, stage and training of the horse

if any of these are not optimal, then that will reduce what a horse can (should?) carry.

There are lots of activities where your size, shape and weight affect your ability to take part, and they don’t involve the welfare of an animal. For example,
sea kayaking - most closed kayaks wouldn‘t fit people who are obese, and most top out at 300lbs before they sink!
skydiving (18 st)
cycling (many top out at 100-120 kg)
climbing (advised to Boulder until you have a better height/weight ratio)

So I really don’t get why we treat equipment better than a live animal. I’ve been personally struggling with some of the images on Facebook recently. People in saddles that are way too small for them, people who are too heavy on a wee spindly legged horse. Just not right.

Are we talking about being overweight for ones overall frame or over weight for the horse? They are two different things. A fit slim tall male could be well overweight but a short fat female may not be.

 

[ester]

Either I am seeing double or is this post posted twice by two separate people?! ? ?

two different posts, I think this one inspired shils