Is this a bad idea ??

CorvusCorax

CorvusCorax

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Teaselmeg said:
Oh dear, I would step away from helping your friend. I don't know how they can want another silver dog, who then may have similar issues to their previous dog. If something happens with another silver, you may get the blame ?
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I do spend chunks of my own time, for free, looking for suitable pups/dogs for people. If they start looking at something I'm not mad keen on, unless it is 'NO NO - BARGEPOLE - DO NOT PROCEED!' I do not find it helpful to slam particular breeders, you just put people's backs up by suggesting they're not very good at researching and it can come back to bite you if you put it in writing. All I will say is something like 'the mother has an elbow score of 1, anything above 0 would be a bit high for me and recommended not to breed from, just so long as you are aware of it' or 'I don't really know any of the dogs in the pedigree so I cannot advise' or 'that might be a very drivey dog for a pet home' or 'there's a dog in the pedigree which can be known for (something vague and not accusatory)' and leave it at that. People absolutely have the right to go for what they want but equally I will not invest my time in then listening to any tales of woe when things go wrong, because I have spent the time flagging things that they decided they wanted to live with.

So to the OP, as Teaselmeg/Druid says, I would advise of the risks if you come across any, not get too invested and wish them luck/politely step away if there are any red flags.
 
Xmasha

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CorvusCorax said:
I do spend chunks of my own time, for free, looking for suitable pups/dogs for people. If they start looking at something I'm not mad keen on, unless it is 'NO NO - BARGEPOLE - DO NOT PROCEED!' I do not find it helpful to slam particular breeders, you just put people's backs up by suggesting they're not very good at researching and it can come back to bite you if you put it in writing. All I will say is something like 'the mother has an elbow score of 1, anything above 0 would be a bit high for me and recommended not to breed from, just so long as you are aware of it' or 'I don't really know any of the dogs in the pedigree so I cannot advise' or 'that might be a very drivey dog for a pet home' or 'there's a dog in the pedigree which can be known for (something vague and not accusatory)' and leave it at that. People absolutely have the right to go for what they want but equally I will not invest my time in then listening to any tales of woe when things go wrong, because I have spent the time flagging things that they decided they wanted to live with.

So to the OP, as Teaselmeg/Druid says, I would advise of the risks if you come across any, not get too invested and wish them luck/politely step away if there are any red flags.
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totally agree, and will do. Thanks CC
 
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P3LH

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Asha said:
im shocked, ive just had a message from the friend. They will only consider a silver. Why on earth would you turn down a well bred KC reg chocolate that has had all the health tests done, been house trained and done puppy classes for a fraction of its true cost, to get a silver . Especially when your last one had such serious health issues.

i just dont get it.

I will broach the subject with my family, but in all honesty i got the feeling they didnt think it was a good idea at the moment. ( im going in for my hip done in a few weeks so timings a bit off )
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If it makes you feel at all better, like many here friends and family often come for dog seeking advice. I once spent several hours with a friend, at their invite, breaking down what they wanted from a dog, really wanted. Then going through suitable breeds. Hours, literally hours, spent shortlisting.

Lots of time in following weeks linking in to breed clubs, passing info about shows to go and meet the shortlist breeds, even putting feelers out through dog related pals to try link them in with the right people.

They went and bought a dog of a totally unsuitable for them breed, which did not fit the criteria they were after at all, for a ridiculous amount, from at best a commercial breeder at worst a puppy farm and the dog is an anxious wreck/liability waiting to happen as clearly had zero socialisation before he arrived with them.

Another - a relative. Same as above. Was easy though as there was a very obviously suitable breed for them. Advised them the right channels to then go through, linked in with breed clubs, found good breeders, educated them in the importance (particularly with this breed) for health testing. They bought a dog from an add online. Not registered. No health tests. From a random house with ‘mum’ who was definitely not mum. Out of interest I googled the number of the breeder - found listing for 23 different breeds, all in different areas. Puppy farm. Dog has been sick every day of its life. Cost tens of thousands, and rising, in vets fees. Has severe behavioural issues as a result of both lived experiences and lack of lived experiences.

You can’t reason with some people. You can just try your best to help them, in the cases where help is actually wanted. There is still, in many cases, a naive attitude when it comes to the breeding and buying of dogs.
 
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P3LH

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Clodagh said:
I know of a choc lab bitch looking for a pet home. Just saying. 😉
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Shame it’s too soon after losing my old man. A sensible lab would be a good mediator of the corgi mafia I think. Yours have made me a bit of a convert although I tend to like the ones my lab loving friends and family tell me I couldn’t own as are a ‘new money colour’. Perhaps in the future, but I really am done with pups for a while.
 
Clodagh

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P3LH said:
Shame it’s too soon after losing my old man. A sensible lab would be a good mediator of the corgi mafia I think. Yours have made me a bit of a convert although I tend to like the ones my lab loving friends and family tell me I couldn’t own as are a ‘new money colour’. Perhaps in the future, but I really am done with pups for a while.
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Lol! I call reds new money as well. 🤣.
Red the rescue I always says she’s a rehome in my first sentence so people don’t think I paid extra money for her 😄
 
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Pearlsacarolsinger

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Clodagh said:
Lol! I call reds new money as well. 🤣.
Red the rescue I always says she’s a rehome in my first sentence so people don’t think I paid extra money for her 😄
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I think I should make it clear here that we paid exactly the same for the black and "red" (butterscotch to you and me, yellow to KC) litter sister pups.
When I bought my first "chocolate" pup, I got the 2nd one free! And they were the 'in' colour at the time.
 
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malwhit

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A few months ago on Pets4homes, KC registered, parents health tested black Labs were for sale at £550. I had noticed the ad, and they'd come down in price. At 13 weeks they were innoculated and must have been sold.

Other litters cost more, had no health testing done but contained yellow and brown pups. I have ended up with 3 black dogs at one point, as they were the last in the litters to be sold & more cheaper than their siblings.

Are Charcoal Labs the same as silver? I have seen those advertised too
 
Clodagh

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malwhit said:
A few months ago on Pets4homes, KC registered, parents health tested black Labs were for sale at £550. I had noticed the ad, and they'd come down in price. At 13 weeks they were innoculated and must have been sold.

Other litters cost more, had no health testing done but contained yellow and brown pups. I have ended up with 3 black dogs at one point, as they were the last in the litters to be sold & more cheaper than their siblings.

Are Charcoal Labs the same as silver? I have seen those advertised too
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I think they are a similar dilute but not quite the same.
A blue came up as a rehome near here recently and he was beautiful. If they were reliable workers and healthy I’d have one.
But I breed off colour chickens so I’m no judge!
 
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CanteringCarrot

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I thought that silver js a dilute of chocolate and charcoal a dilute of black?

My black Lab's dam is charcoal, but her sire is black. Both parents had proper health testing, and tracked lineage, so I didn't care so much about the color. I did originally consider a charcoal, but that bitch did not take when bred, so I ended up with the black one I have now because I happened to find her breeder and the timing was right

I do have a gray/blue/whatever Cane Corso which is also a dilute (I think). Dam is formentino and sire is black. They can also be prone to many "ailments" but she's healthy thus far. I love gray dogs.

I do know of a breeder that breeds exclusively charcoals and silvers. He seems to produce nice dogs, and I haven't heard of nor seen health issues within his program. So it's not as if they're all riddled with issues. I wouldn't say "bargepole" here, for me, personally, in every instance or example.

If they want a silver and find one with healthy parents, good health testing, and like the dog, then who am I to say no.


Edited because I wasn't clear or people just like to infer today!
 
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Xmasha

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It’s the same with horses isn’t it . Seems to be a run on people breeding for colour . Lots of duns/palomino types . With people choosing to use perlino stallions just to get the fashionable colour . Then charging handsomely for it .
Personally I’d rather breed for temperament and soundness .
As for Stirling , I didn’t choose him because he was chocolate, I chose him because I was adamant I wasn’t travelling too far and would wait for a reputable local show type breeder to advertise . He just happened to be chocolate ( and fabulous to boot 🥰)
I did say I didn’t want a yellow lab , purely because he would have looked a little too similar to our golden who we lost .
 
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CanteringCarrot

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Asha said:
I’m not stupid . I’m talking about people who are breeding purely for colour . So using sub standard stallions that haven’t even been graded just to get a fashionable colour .
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I didn't say that you're stupid.

It was mostly said in jest, in general. It's a spin off a meme, too.

I don't disagree with your points. I am indeed stupid though!


😜


Edit: If I thought you were stupid, I'd tell you. I'd also quote you in a direct reply ;)
 
druid

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CanteringCarrot said:
I thought that silver js a dilute of chocolate and charcoal a dilute of black?

My black Lab's dam is charcoal, but her sire is black. Both parents had proper health testing, and tracked lineage, so I didn't care so much about the color. I did originally consider a charcoal, but that bitch did not take when bred, so I ended up with the black one I have now because I happened to find her breeder and the timing was right

I do have a gray/blue/whatever Cane Corso which is also a dilute (I think). Dam is formentino and sire is black. They can also be prone to many "ailments" but she's healthy thus far. I love gray dogs.

I do know of a breeder that breeds exclusively charcoals and silvers. He seems to produce nice dogs, and I haven't heard of nor seen health issues within his program. So it's not as if they're all riddled with issues. I wouldn't say "bargepole" here, for me, personally.

If they want a silver and find one with healthy parents, good health testing, and like the dog, then who am I to say no?
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They're unrecognised colours in the breed standard, with well known health issues. Bargepole is a perfectly good word for them. They are being bred for monetary gain not to better the breed or to work.

The silver ones all magically popped up in a kennel thta also breeds weims in the USA before becoming more common place. Funny that
 
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CanteringCarrot

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druid said:
They're unrecognised colours in the breed standard, with well known health issues. Bargepole is a perfectly good word for them. They are being bred for monetary gain not to better the breed or to work.

The silver ones all magically popped up in a kennel thta also breeds weims in the USA before becoming more common place. Funny that
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You're free to use the term bargepole 🤷🏼‍♀️

And yes, they are unrecognised colours.

I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your post.
 
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