Is this a cruelty case?????

I wouldn't just go and take the rug off - as others have suggested, there may be a specific reason for the horse being rugged - my horse is a ridiculously warm horse who even in winter will sweat in a rain sheet - this horse may be the opposite.

Leave a note advising of your concern and if nothing is done contact the RSPCA but TBH I wouldn't expect them to respond very quickly to an issue like this.

Although these kinds of posts cause controversy and a difference of opinion I'm glad that people are willing to look out for other horses.
 
Just my thought- I imported a horse from Dubai who REALLY struggled aclimatising to UK weather. It wore a rug in Summer for at least 2 years, even when we thought it was very warm, this horse really felt it. I think that a note for the owner is the most approporiate action- most sane people are happy to explain their actions to other sane people!
 
also regards to taking rug off if you are found tampering with that horse or in there field you can be done for trespassing so i wouldnt recommend it
 
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Re Leah3horses, reporting them, or just contacting the owner is not doing nothing. the horse has clearly survived with the rug on until now, and there may be a genuine reason why it needs it. I would go absolutely ballistic if someone was to take a rug off my horse etc and im sure you would too - or at least be cross if you deemed someone to be itnerfering. They obvs care enough to rotate their paddocks. Just be careful how you go about it as, after all, horses are an extensions of ourselves and it is the horse you are worried about, you don't want this to become personal!

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umm, just because the horse has "survived" till now, doesn't mean it's comfortable. i was a bit slow taking the amigo lightweights off my 2 tbs yesterday morning, they were both starting to sweat and i felt really guilty. yes, i could have left them on all day and they would have "survived", sure, but they'd have been very uncomfortable.
other than a boett/anti-fly/anti-sweet-itch type of rug, i do not believe that ANY horse needs a rug on in daytime in high summer in england when the temperature is in the high 70s or 80s. if they really do lose weight because of it (how? they can't be using calories to keep warm for goodness' sake!) then they need a LOT more grass, hard feed, balancer etc etc.
and fwiw i'd go into the field, check the horse, and if it was sweating profusely under the (middleweight, apparently) rug, i'd probably take it off, and leave a note explaining why i had done what i had done. i'd also go back at sundown prepared to put the rug back on so it didn't get chilled, probably with someone to protect me from their wrath!
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Yeah is very tempting to take it off but leave a note first and see if anyone bothers taking notice of it.

There has been days when i have been so angry for someone not taking buddys rug off for me actually. As he has a habit of ripping rugs to spread in the winter i had a case in the winter where the YO had drove past Buddy in the field with his rug ripped to shreads tangled around his legs and she didnt even think of taking it off. I was walking to stables anyway and she does happened to drive by me and casually mentioned buddy is in field with his rug ripped to shreads i think you need to take it off. Like FFS she could have had the kindness to take it off 4 me he was in such a state frozen to the spot covered in sweat. Just glad he hadnt bolted around in panic as could of broke his legs.


Sorry for drifting away from subject a little. Just if owners are on holiday and someone is looking after horses for them who dont know how to take rugs off and on. It isnt really fair for the poor horse to have to suffer out of carers lack of knowledge. I would put a note up give it a day if no one does anything then i would take the rugs off and just leave a note saying why you have took rug off.
 
ok....first and foremost the laws on animal welfare have changed......and about time too as its for the better.
these days suffering does NOT have to be present, just the LIKELYHOOD of suffering should intervention not occur.
today in particular i would stake my life savings on that poor animal sweating under a middle weight rug.
call the ilph, or rspca. either or both will go and assess (and i would imagine quite quickly given this situation) and then act accordingly.
do not touch the horse under any circ's as you could be held accountable for any damage (real or imagined) by the owner!
good luck!
 
It's true, i just replied to the posts above :P in that case, apologies! What I meant kerilli was that a few more days while you try and contact the owner to raise your concerns aren't going to hurt, better than getting done for trespassing, plus the owners are more likely to listen to you... as you said that's what you're going to do nehu!
 
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As a side issue, some one posted about contacting RSPCA as they have the "right " to enter the field and act, THEY DO NOT. They have no more right than any other member of the public has. They do however have the resources to approach police and local authorities to prompt them to use the powers those organisations have (usually following giving evidence to a judge in chambers,LA anyway) to protect animals at risk of harm.
 
worth noting, although I'm sure this situation is different, that we have a horse here that wears a lightweight rug all the time. She is a DIY livery, is 30yrs old, TB ex-broodmare and just getting to the age where although she is healthy, she looks a little ribby.

The owners come up once a day to check her but they can't get up twice a day to take rug on/off so they leave it on her. She is happier maybe being a little warm on a hot day (of which we have had very few) but staying warm at night and dry in the rain (of which we have lots).

Not 100% ideal I would say but definitely not a cruelty case in this situation so make sure you have the facts before you report them.
 
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Re Leah3horses, reporting them, or just contacting the owner is not doing nothing. the horse has clearly survived with the rug on until now, and there may be a genuine reason why it needs it. I would go absolutely ballistic if someone was to take a rug off my horse etc and im sure you would too - or at least be cross if you deemed someone to be itnerfering. They obvs care enough to rotate their paddocks. Just be careful how you go about it as, after all, horses are an extensions of ourselves and it is the horse you are worried about, you don't want this to become personal!

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other than a boett/anti-fly/anti-sweet-itch type of rug, i do not believe that ANY horse needs a rug on in daytime in high summer in england when the temperature is in the high 70s or 80s. if they really do lose weight because of it (how? they can't be using calories to keep warm for goodness' sake!) then they need a LOT more grass, hard feed, balancer etc etc.
and fwiw i'd go into the field, check the horse, and if it was sweating profusely under the (middleweight, apparently) rug, i'd probably take it off, and leave a note explaining why i had done what i had done. i'd also go back at sundown prepared to put the rug back on so it didn't get chilled, probably with someone to protect me from their wrath!
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My mare does lose weight if she is out in 'high summer' (is there one?) in England in the rain without a rug on. This is because she burns more energy shivering and shaking, plus she will stop eating/grazing and stand, looking miserable. So she uses more calories, but eats less, if you understand me.
You are somewhat missing the point, anyway - that she isn't hot or sweaty, obviously or she wouldn't be rugged.
And I'd rather simply rug my horse til she is the temperature she feels happy at, than pump hard feed into her (she's only allowed restricted grass, anyway).
As I said, I accept it is difficult for some owners to realise that every horse isn't exactly like theirs.
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And with reference to Shilasdair,obviously your horse is very well cared for and monitored very closely, this horse left with the rug on since March 1st doesn't appear to have regular knowledgeable care, hence the concern.

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If it has water, adequate grazing as suggested by OP - why do you think it isnt receieving adequate care?????? Just because it has a rug on and you disagree with it...???
 
Actually re Shilasdair if my horse was suffering in any way(never a chance tho) I would be more than happy for somebody to help out.Most people seem to care more about 'ownership' of animals than general welfare of equines,it seems.

The OP is right by leaving a note but I agree with what she has said,that if the note isn't read the next day she should go and check the horse, taking the rug off if necessary.


Before I kept my horses at home my mare was targeted by a very determined rig, who pulled my mares rug right over her head and she got her front legs tangles in the leg straps.If not for a very kind passerby who witnessed this,and promptly took the rug off my mare I hate to think what state she would have ended up in.I came to the field to see her rug neatly folded up on the wall, had no idea what had happened but didn't jump to conclusions.The kind person came down to explain what he had done and I was very grateful,as I would always be if somebody was helping my animals.So would this kind of action also be frowned by those who advise not to check this horse I wonder???

Just shows how mad this world has gone when people are scared of helping an animal who may be suffering in case they get blamed by the owner for 'real or imagined' issues.I couldn't care less as long as I have checked that the horse isn't suffering and taken action if nobody else will.And yes I would go back and rug same animal up that night, again if necessary.I'd monitor it daily as I would be responsible for my actions.And anybody with any experience can tell a horse who is cared for, no matter what time of day, and a horse that isn't.

There are a few horses round me that are regularly rugged up with lightweight rugs at the moment, even a shire and welsh ponies(!), possibly to stop the coats being bleached by the sun if they are show horses,personally I think this isn't best for the horses but hey ho.I know for a fact these horses are checked every day, even if I have not seen it with my own eyes.The clue is in the condition of said horses,they look very well groomed,with healthy skin and coat,clean eyes, well shod or trimmed and you can smell the fly spray on them!If same can't be said for this other horse then there is a problem with it's care.

And the fencing rotation and water may be being done by the land owner,not the horse owner.Also I know some people who spend more time making the pasture look nice than actually caring for the horse!

Most people in horses do have strong opinions, which is great, but at the end of the day ownership of a particular animal doesn't preclude caring, knowledgeable bystanders watching out if that animal appears to not be well cared for.I'm a vet nurse of 20 years and my priority is definitely animal welfare.
 
No black diamond this is not the case, I do not disagree with any horse wearing a rug in summer if it needs it.The case here is that it is reported that the horse seems to have had this rug on constantly since March 1st.I did not say 'adequate' care, I said regular, knowledgeable care.There is a huge difference.

And horse care to me is a lot lot more than providing grazing and water, I'm sure you would agree????
 
leave a note for the ownres expressing your concern and at the bottom ask for a reply? go and have alook under the rug if you can to see whats going on! i would surly doubt any horse can lose weight buy getting cold in this weather it would lose more condition weight and salts by sweating having the rug on i would say!
 
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Actually re Shilasdair if my horse was suffering in any way(never a chance tho) I would be more than happy for somebody to help out.Most people seem to care more about 'ownership' of animals than general welfare of equines,it seems.
<font color="blue">Obviously, I spend a deal of my time helping random bay horses at my yard in rug trouble, and on a couple of occasions folk have returned the favour. </font>

The OP is right by leaving a note but I agree with what she has said,that if the note isn't read the next day she should go and check the horse, taking the rug off if necessary.

<font color="blue">And what would the note say 'I demand you remove that horse's rug, as I don't think it should be wearing one'? Maybe I should leave notes for other people detailing my preferred horsecare methods, too. I am sure you see my point here. </font>

Before I kept my horses at home my mare was targeted by a very determined rig, who pulled my mares rug right over her head and she got her front legs tangles in the leg straps.If not for a very kind passerby who witnessed this,and promptly took the rug off my mare I hate to think what state she would have ended up in.I came to the field to see her rug neatly folded up on the wall, had no idea what had happened but didn't jump to conclusions.The kind person came down to explain what he had done and I was very grateful,as I would always be if somebody was helping my animals.So would this kind of action also be frowned by those who advise not to check this horse I wonder???
<font color="blue"> Turning your horse out with an aggressive rig seems to me, to be a more important welfare issue than the rug, in this case. And there is a difference between assisting a horse in an accident/emergency, and interfering in the management of someone else's stock. </font>

Just shows how mad this world has gone when people are scared of helping an animal who may be suffering in case they get blamed by the owner for 'real or imagined' issues.I couldn't care less as long as I have checked that the horse isn't suffering and taken action if nobody else will.And yes I would go back and rug same animal up that night, again if necessary.I'd monitor it daily as I would be responsible for my actions.And anybody with any experience can tell a horse who is cared for, no matter what time of day, and a horse that isn't.
<font color="blue"> This is the same argument that sees grazing muzzles taken off laminitics, or in my case, my mare is on restricted grazing, but I've had 'kind' people like yourself moving the electric fence so she has a decent chance of killing herself. Luckily, I caught it in time, and no harm was done, but this illustrates the perils of being 'kind' to 'suffering' animals.</font>

There are a few horses round me that are regularly rugged up with lightweight rugs at the moment, even a shire and welsh ponies(!), possibly to stop the coats being bleached by the sun if they are show horses,personally I think this isn't best for the horses but hey ho.I know for a fact these horses are checked every day, even if I have not seen it with my own eyes.The clue is in the condition of said horses,they look very well groomed,with healthy skin and coat,clean eyes, well shod or trimmed and you can smell the fly spray on them!If same can't be said for this other horse then there is a problem with it's care.
<font color="blue">Maybe they are rugged as protection against biting flies, in which case, it is best for the horses. </font>

And the fencing rotation and water may be being done by the land owner,not the horse owner.Also I know some people who spend more time making the pasture look nice than actually caring for the horse!
<font color="blue"> You obviously have different definitions of 'caring for horses' - everyone has their own way, just as every horse is different. I just really hate this aspect of the equine industry - where there is only one 'true' way of managing your horse - and everyone calls everyone else 'cruel' for the differences. </font>

Most people in horses do have strong opinions, which is great, but at the end of the day ownership of a particular animal doesn't preclude caring, knowledgeable bystanders watching out if that animal appears to not be well cared for.I'm a vet nurse of 20 years and my priority is definitely animal welfare.

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<font color="blue">I think there are legal processes to follow if you think a horse is genuinely suffering, in terms of untreated injury and disease, lack of food, water, shelter, etc. I'm just not sure that incorrect rugging decisions warrant an accusation of 'cruelty'. I'm not a vet nurse of 20 years though
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so what would I know?
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No black diamond this is not the case.I found your post a little aggressive but just to set the record straight: I do not disagree with any horse wearing a rug in summer if it truly needs it.

The case here is that it is reported that the horse seems to have had this rug on constantly since March 1st.So if this is correct that means no grooming,possibly lice ridden,possibly suffering fly strike, no checking of condition,no fresh air on it's skin or proper rolling for the horse.As to the condition of hooves and eyes...these are all IFS and I will always 'interfere' as it has been said,to check any animals welfare in these circumcstances.

I did not say 'adequate' care, I said regular, knowledgeable care.There is a huge difference.

And horse care to me is a lot lot more than providing grazing and water, I'm sure you would agree????

It was reported that the Amersham horses had some grazing and water.If not for concerned passers by 'interfering' in the plight of these horses they could still be there now.It's not about being 'right' or 'wrong', surely it's about what is best for animals that MAY be suffering.I'd much rather be proved wrong than look the other way.But then egos do seem to get in the way in the horse world, sadly.
 
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The case here is that it is reported that the horse seems to have had this rug on constantly since March 1st.

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If you re-read the OP, that's not what it says.
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Wow I stand by my point of egos getting in the way in the horse world! I'm not going to let this degenerate into a childish, sarcastic personal diatribe.I did think this could happen by daring to have a difference of opinion with you Shilasdair but am still quiet stunned at the venom.You are fully entitled to have your opinions, as EVERYBODY is.At no time have I been personal about this.

At no point have I said others peoples ways are wrong.I am certainly no novice so will ignore your patronising remarks re grazing muzzles, fencing and whatever the note would say etc...Also I definitely know the difference between a boett blanket or fly rug and a turnout rug, as do most people, I must say.

The rig actually jumped 2 fences to attack my mare.To accuse somebody of not caring for their horses' welfare on the grounds of having a difference of opinion on a forum shows arrogance, ignorance and downright rudeness in equal measures.

I have never equated leaving a rug on with 'cruelty', you will see that was the OPs' original question, to which we ALL have a right to reply, not just you.

And if you think that there seems pressure to manage horses in one way -although your evidence for this sweeping statement is what, exactly??, and you say that everybody has different ways of caring for horses then why does it bother you so much that my way is obviously different to yours?

I repeat,for me it's not about RIGHT or WRONG!!It's about animal welfare and the right to post on a forum without being personally attacked.
 
Ok, Leah3horses, so far you have called other posters;

aggressive
childish
venomous
arrogant
ignorant
downright rude

I am so glad you haven't resorted to 'personal attack', if this is your rational discussion, as you'd have nowhere left to go other than curses.
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I'd have thought better of a vet nurse of more than 20 years.
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No black diamond this is not the case.I found your post a little aggressive but just to set the record straight: I do not disagree with any horse wearing a rug in summer if it truly needs it.

The case here is that it is reported that the horse seems to have had this rug on constantly since March 1st.So if this is correct that means no grooming,possibly lice ridden,possibly suffering fly strike, no checking of condition,no fresh air on it's skin or proper rolling for the horse.As to the condition of hooves and eyes...these are all IFS and I will always 'interfere' as it has been said,to check any animals welfare in these circumcstances.

I did not say 'adequate' care, I said regular, knowledgeable care.There is a huge difference.

And horse care to me is a lot lot more than providing grazing and water, I'm sure you would agree????

It was reported that the Amersham horses had some grazing and water.If not for concerned passers by 'interfering' in the plight of these horses they could still be there now.It's not about being 'right' or 'wrong', surely it's about what is best for animals that MAY be suffering.I'd much rather be proved wrong than look the other way.But then egos do seem to get in the way in the horse world, sadly.

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Oh dear you posted a reply to me twice....
 
I'd go with the first reply, Blackdiamond - it was less abusive than the second, lol.
You'd think that a vet nurse of more than 20 years standing would have more patience with us non-vet nurses, wouldn't you?
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If you believe that the horse is sufferingthen simply report it to the ILPH. They have inspectors who cover the country.

08000 480180 UK Welfare Hotline Staffed 8am - 6:30pm Monday to Friday

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Thank God for a sensible reply.
 
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If you believe that the horse is sufferingthen simply report it to the ILPH. They have inspectors who cover the country.

08000 480180 UK Welfare Hotline Staffed 8am - 6:30pm Monday to Friday

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Thank Gxx for a sensible reply.

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Watch your language, donkeykisser.
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Well, if anyone interfered to the point of taking a rug off any of mine without contacting me, I'd track them down and disembowel them.
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if some interfering ba5tard came onto my land and tampered with ANY one of my ponies i'd first contact the police then my solicitor!!!
 
How charming some people on this forum are.Can't really be bothered to reply.I didn't call any posters the terms you have quoted Shilasdair.It was directed at your post.If you don't know the difference between a post critique, right of reply and personal insults, should you really be posting insults and throwing your toys out of the pram on one?

I've been on this forum quite some time now,I spent many amusing months just reading lots of posts,never posted due to the amount of nastiness, personal insults and attacks on here, usually by the same group of people.This forum does have quite a bad reputation on other more progressive forums, I can see why now.So I'm not surprised by any of this.And for you to use the words 'rational discussion' in one of your many abusive posts is quite entertaining.

Your kind of old school dinosaur on here is so easy to deal with.There is an 'ignore users' posts' button for this very reason.I have just used it for the last 3 scarily defensive, aggressive, downright rude posters.Enjoy harrassing other more enlightened posters who may dare to disagree with you lol
 
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