Is this a cruelty case?????

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How charming some people on this forum are.Can't really be bothered to reply.I didn't call any posters the terms you have quoted Shilasdair.It was directed at your post.If you don't know the difference between a post critique, right of reply and personal insults, should you really be posting insults and throwing your toys out of the pram on one?

I've been on this forum quite some time now,I spent many amusing months just reading lots of posts,never posted due to the amount of nastiness, personal insults and attacks on here, usually by the same group of people.This forum does have quite a bad reputation on other more progressive forums, I can see why now.So I'm not surprised by any of this.And for you to use the words 'rational discussion' in one of your many abusive posts is quite entertaining.

Your kind of old school dinosaur on here is so easy to deal with.There is an 'ignore users' posts' button for this very reason.I have just used it for the last 3 scarily defensive, aggressive, downright rude posters.Enjoy harrassing other more enlightened posters who may dare to disagree with you lol

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Aw, Leah, you're magnificent when you're angry.
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Just for clarification - your post calling Blackdiamond and I names - that's a post critique, right?
And my posts, explaining why one shouldn't actively interfere, unless one knows all the facts - that's personal insults?
Hope I got that right, this time.
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Well done, for not swearing at me, anyway.
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Well, if anyone interfered to the point of taking a rug off any of mine without contacting me, I'd track them down and disembowel them.
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Totally agree. There could well be a reason and unless you actually get close to the horse, how do you know it's a medium weight?
 
Def go with the BHS welfare line or the like. That sounds awfuly cruel to me.

And for information, we were hotter yesterday than many of our usual sunny destinations over seas.
 
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to be fair my mare has still got a rug on but she is pathetic and either stands lookink sad and cold or shivers

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So has my mare, she will wear a rug pretty much all year round, she is checked morning and night but no one would see me as I work long hours. If I went to see her at 8 in the evening to find someone had taken her rug off I'd flip!

However if someone left a note I would happily reply and explain why she was wearing a rug (often a middle weight rambo
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) in the middle of summer. She's a 22 year old Egytian Arab who does not eat and shakes when remotely cool, she would be skin and bone if left unrugged throughout a Scottish summer.

There are too many people out there who believe their way of caring for a horse is the only way of caring for a horse. Just cos you don't agree with it doesn't make it cruelty. I see many things in the horse world that I don't agree with but I realise other people believe it is the best thing for the horse and therefore keep my opinions to myself. you wouldn't go up and remove a harsh bit from a horse bridle because you thought it was too harsh, to me it's the same as taking a rug off without permission.

Ok rant over and I think I managed to avoid any personal attach
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it must be Friday!
 
Yes, but the horse that the OP was referring to is in Gloucstershire???? Where yesterday temps reached the high 70's. How can anything need a medium weight rug on in temperatures like that
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i completly agree with silverspring my mare also has a middle weight rug on atm and i doubt it will be taken off her completley. she has actually had it off for a day now but i will have to put it on today as she will be freezing and it is quite sunny here, but when there is a slight breeze she will start to shiver again. is it not possible the horse could be like mine a total wimp or old???
 
The OP posted earlier to say she has asked her local BHS Welfare Officer (I think) to take a look at the pony and maybe chat to the owners - a sensible (and legal) route.
I also posted earlier (Admin deleted some posts) to say that here in Glos, where I live, it was quite windy, and dull yesterday - I had thought my horse would be hot in her sweet itch hoody, but she wasn't.
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How charming some people on this forum are.Can't really be bothered to reply.I didn't call any posters the terms you have quoted Shilasdair.It was directed at your post.If you don't know the difference between a post critique, right of reply and personal insults, should you really be posting insults and throwing your toys out of the pram on one?

I've been on this forum quite some time now,I spent many amusing months just reading lots of posts,never posted due to the amount of nastiness, personal insults and attacks on here, usually by the same group of people.This forum does have quite a bad reputation on other more progressive forums, I can see why now.So I'm not surprised by any of this.And for you to use the words 'rational discussion' in one of your many abusive posts is quite entertaining.

Your kind of old school dinosaur on here is so easy to deal with.There is an 'ignore users' posts' button for this very reason.I have just used it for the last 3 scarily defensive, aggressive, downright rude posters.Enjoy harrassing other more enlightened posters who may dare to disagree with you lol

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Aw, Leah, you're magnificent when you're angry.
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Just for clarification - your post calling Blackdiamond and I names - that's a post critique, right?
And my posts, explaining why one shouldn't actively interfere, unless one knows all the facts - that's personal insults?
Hope I got that right, this time.
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Well done, for not swearing at me, anyway.
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having been told i should play nicely, i'd just like to say, i feel we should all just agree to dissagree, eh??

we are not all made the same, we are all entitled to our own individual opinions and i'm afraid this thread is in danger of becoming nothing more than an uncalled for slanging match

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hope that covers all things fluffy??
 
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How charming some people on this forum are.Can't really be bothered to reply.I didn't call any posters the terms you have quoted Shilasdair.It was directed at your post.If you don't know the difference between a post critique, right of reply and personal insults, should you really be posting insults and throwing your toys out of the pram on one?

I've been on this forum quite some time now,I spent many amusing months just reading lots of posts,never posted due to the amount of nastiness, personal insults and attacks on here, usually by the same group of people.This forum does have quite a bad reputation on other more progressive forums, I can see why now.So I'm not surprised by any of this.And for you to use the words 'rational discussion' in one of your many abusive posts is quite entertaining.

Your kind of old school dinosaur on here is so easy to deal with.There is an 'ignore users' posts' button for this very reason.I have just used it for the last 3 scarily defensive, aggressive, downright rude posters.Enjoy harrassing other more enlightened posters who may dare to disagree with you lol

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Aw, Leah, you're magnificent when you're angry.
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Just for clarification - your post calling Blackdiamond and I names - that's a post critique, right?
And my posts, explaining why one shouldn't actively interfere, unless one knows all the facts - that's personal insults?
Hope I got that right, this time.
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Well done, for not swearing at me, anyway.
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having been told i should play nicely, i'd just like to say, i feel we should all just agree to dissagree, eh??

we are not all made the same, we are all entitled to our own individual opinions and i'm afraid this thread is in danger of becoming nothing more than an uncalled for slanging match

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hope that covers all things fluffy??

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Are you calling me a nutter, JM07?
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I am somewhat disconcerted by people giving advice to enter other peoples land to remove rugs. Where does this stop, remove muzzles if you don't like/agree with them?
Take off shoes if you believe that horses should be barefoot?
Take off head collars if you believe them to be none field safe ones?
Take out hay nets ( I would never use them as IMO they are an accident waiting to happen)?
The list is endless and if you have a concern then either speak to the owner, in as pleasant a manner as possible, but on no account, except in emergencies remove anything from any-ones horse or field.
 
Shell,

I think the note idea is the right way to go. If someone was so concerned about my horse they left me a note - I might be a tiny bit offended on the one hand that I was being questioned - but would still be happy to explain knowing their heart was in the right place to worry about the horse.

If on the other hand someone went into my field with my horses and took a rug off, I'd be inviting Shilasdair round to disembowel the someone for me. I'd be furious!

Note, then if no joy, yes maybe a call to the ILPH. If you remove the rug, beware of Shilasdair in case she has an arrangement with any random horse owners!!!!
 
I'd be furious too Gingermare!

There are so many reason why it might need a rug.
Plus it might be a kicker like April used to be (years ago) and you could get booted for your trouble - you wouldn't catch me going into a field with a strange horse!

A few of the little oldies on April's yard wear rugs in the summer and they are brought in every day to get fed. I am helping mum look after them this weekend, awww
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A polite note is the best idea or if brave enough a personal visit and just drop it in the conversation.

I had a lady stop me last March asking if the horses had enough grass.
They didn't, as it was March, but I explained that they got hay put out for them in the field and feed and hay at night.
I didn't mind her checking at all though as the winter fields were so badly poached and better to be safe!
 
OK I am starting to get quite angry now (and I may turn into a nut!!!!!!
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) that some of you do not correctly read my posts. If you read back through you will clearly read that I have no intentions of taking the rug off!!!! ARRGGGGG!!

Anyhow thats my anger out in the open!
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I had a post removed today (not sure why??) that basically said, that I could not wait any longer, cuz I thought if I write a note, god knows when the owner will read it, and this whole thing will go on longer than I feel nessisary. So I contacted the BHS welfare team, who where very concerned about the horse, and felt a need to get out asap to check on it. Somebody was due out this morning. They are going to keep me updated on whats happened.
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I am daring to post again (SHOCK). Lots of over reaction on this subject.I must point out that I was referring only to this individual horse,and I stated quite clearly that I would leave a note,check the horse if nobody comes to the horse then remove the rug IF NECESSARY!!! ie,if indeed this horse had been left unattended for months and was sweating and suffering in the heat with a medium weight rug on.The key point here is IF there was evidence that the horse had been left unattended for months, as I mentioned several times to no avail.

And if people really do equate this with and believe that I would would tamper with electric fencing,grazing muzzles,bridles etc etc then they really are more stupid even than they come across. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Thanks to all those who have pm'd me with support and who have also been horrified, but not surprised at my treatment from certain individuals regarding this. Never feel afraid to post, but just be sure you make your posts very simple and spellt out as some people don't/can't actually read posts and jump to conclusions/fly off the handle and have the arrogance to think every post concerns their own horses when in fact we are talking very specifically about one case of possible neglect.

Thank god the majority of people on here leave their egos out of posts and have dared to post that they would help an animal in distress.Nobody would take the rug off an animal for any other reason.OBVIOUSLY!!!!!!
 
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And if people really do equate this with and believe that I would would tamper with electric fencing,grazing muzzles,bridles etc etc then they really are more stupid even than they come across. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.


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It's:
"what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" and that means what is acceptable for one person is acceptable for another person which I'm not entirely sure why you have said that - I think you have got your idioms mixed up dear!!
 
Very sorry, forgot to spell it out. What's good for the goose is good for the gander refers to the fact that certain people can spew forth venom on here, therfore they can have a taste of their own medicine.Got it now sonny/missy??? Don't go around calling people probably 3 times your age 'dear',don't you learn the basics of sommunication at school? Here we go with more crap back and forth,whatever,it's pathetic and Irefuse to give you any more of my time.Got much better things to do, like go and care for my animals properly.
 
I'd be fuming if someone took my ponies rug of! you do not know why the rug is there so you have no right to take it off. It may be that you just havent seen the owner come up, in summer i do my ponies at 6 am in the morning, 3 pm in the afternoon and 10pm at night, this is outside of normal hours so most people wont see me as they are either at home (probably in bed at 6am) or at work.

Also how do you know it is a medium weight, my pony is currently wearing an amigo lite with neck rug, it is identical to look at as his heavyweight amigo. He wears it because he has sweet itch and has a tendancy to shread fly rugs (3 boetts, 2 rambo hoodies and one cheap fly rug in a year before i gave up) so he wears his rug to protect him and this season we have managed to get to july with full mane and tail.
If someone took his rug off (yes he can get slightly hot in it) then he would have rubbed himself raw and bleeding by the time i got there to deal with him. He has done it in the past when a lady from a local caravan sight took his rug off because he was hot. when she did it i got there 3 hours later to find him franticly rubbing at raw spots with blood running down his shoulders, he had to have the vet up, a course of steroids to reduce the inflamation and swelling, the steroids caused lamminitus and he was stuck in a stable for the rest of the summer.

So tell me is it better for him to get a bit sweaty under a rug or to take the rug off and let him destroy himself?

Leave a note saying you are concerned, i'd have no problem with someone leaveing me a note however i would have a problem with someone removing the rug.
 
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This has all been gone through, at length, on the previous pages and all these points have been covered, please read the post fully.

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I am sure she did. As did I.

We are still allowed an opinion and to comment. The thread is still here and still active.
It was also done politely and not aimed at anyone in particular, just opinions on the topic at hand
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I know the OP has no intention of removing the little pony's rug but it was suggested by eccles, Amy and angeldelight and yourself (perhaps jokingly); therefore conniegirl and I are simply stating reasons why this would not be a good idea. Yes, others have already done so, but there's no harm in us giving our opinions too!
 
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I don't think it is right for the horse to have a rug on in this weather but at the same time it is not your place to take it off. If the owner has been down regularly as you say then they would've surely noticed the horse being uncomfortable and are now being neglectful, in which case the relevant bodies i.e. RSPCA, should be called in.

If you enter the field for whatever reason then you are trespassing, no matter how upsetting it is for you, you have to go down the right routes to ensure it's welfare.

Many years ago, a horse brought itself to our yard with a chain round it's neck and a rug on, it had obv escaped and was very hot and uncomfortable, when we took the rug off she was literally skin and bone, it was horrible to see (I do have before and after pics but not on this computer). It could be that the owner is trying to hide an unhealthy horse - what would you do if you pulled off the rug to reveal this? I think that is something best left to the RSPCA.
 
Absolutely no harm in anybody giving opinions, when they are posted in a civil way as you have.It's just that everything conniegirl said had already been covered previously,regarding the one particular horse in question,nobody elses, at length.I'm sorry to hear her horse has such bad sweet itch.

Have to point out tho,for people to say 'their horse this, their horse that' is besides the point,people are simply answering the original question.

It was stated by the OP it was a middleweight rug.Why can't we just stick to the original question, answer it as to what we'd do in that situation, not what we'd do if it was our own horse??

I don't understand why people are comparing the original post about one particular horse who MAY not be cared for (nobody has actually said it isnt)with their own horses.The question was about this specific horse and its' circumstances,it was all theoretical, and that is all people answering the question have referred to.


Again, I state, I would take the rug off the horse AFTER TRYING TO CONTACT THE OWNER, AFTER CHECKING THE HORSE AND ONLY AS A LAST RESORT, IF IT WAS SUFFERING. That means that horse only, with respect not yours or conniegirls, not Shilasdairs,not J07s, not anybody elses!!

I would not dream of doing any such thing to the original horse without lots of evidence that the horse was suffering. I feel I am being painted here as some phantom rug remover (lol) who wants to go round taking rugs off all your horses and all the other irrelevant points that have been made, when I have said no such thing!!

My reply to conniegirl was extremely polite,as yours was, and it contained a quote from my post so I am replying to it.I totally agree with everything you say,and say politely, and conniegirl about her own horse.If somebody went and took the rug off her horse they would be stupid and cause the horse untold suffering,exactly what I was trying to stop in my posts!! I was referring to the original post, and have been with every reply I have made. Conniegirl and April, you have been very polite, as most are on here, if, or especially when there is a difference on opinion.Not that there even was on this thread.The only difference of opinion I have with anybody here is that I will not be bullied by other intolerant,melodramatic abusive posts.Note to those concerned,I say posts not posters, there is a difference! Whatever you would do in response to the original post is your perogative,and what I would do is mine,I would be responsible for my actions.I also said I'd rather be proved wrong than not even check the horse.

Maybe I will put a disclaimer on my sig, that I am replying objectively to the original post, and there is no need for certain people to get their knickers in a twist and be abusive as I AM NOT REFERRING TO THEIR HORSE AND HAVE NO WISH TO.

Hope this is clear now.The whole thing has got boring hasn't it lol
 

Good point Carys, that's what I'd want to find out by checking the horse, feeling it under its' rug over the fence if possible, but I'd go in the field if not.As I say, I am aware of and responsible for my own actions.

And if it was worse than an overheated,neglected horse (note I say IF) I would contact the Horse' Trust,Happa and RSPCA immeditately, that would be the obvious course of action.
 
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I think that is something best left to the RSPCA.

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if the OP wants a quick response, they'd be the last organisation to call....




leah3horses.....

as we are picking up on points of this thread, the fact i'd be most p155ed off if someone tampered with my horses's rug IS relevent..a few of us were putting ourselves into the shoes of the owner of said rugged up pony..that is how i (we) would feel....

oh and if you are going to mention me in your posts...get the name right....

assuming you're reading this

thank you
 
blimey...

as regard the OP, you can only do what you feel is right, like we have seen no two people are ever going to agree 100% of the time. do let us know what the BHS Welfare Officer says
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thanks leah!

At least everyone is agreed on one thing - we would all do something! Just the approaches are different.

I'm a little different to you i think as i prefer not to go on theoretical 'what would you do'; i quite like hearing what people have actually done and real life experiences.
Probably stems from interviewing people when i would rather know what they have actually done rather than what they think they would do as we are all perfect in our imaginations!

I often don't post on threads in the new lounge if i don't have actual experience on the subject (limits my conversation eh lol!).

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Nice to read your post.Interesting, yes see where you're coming from April .Bet you get some cracking replies in your work when you start to dig a bit and get evidence in the interviews ?
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I'd never do anything without evidence or experience either,just unless we are actually there it's all theoretical isn't it.My work affects how I think too, have seen so much neglect and crueltly in my career and you can only see or hear about so much can't you grrrr.
 
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that I am replying objectively to the original post, and there is no need for certain people to get their knickers in a twist and be abusive as I AM NOT REFERRING TO THEIR HORSE AND HAVE NO WISH TO.


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Yawn.
Nowhere in my posts did I ever call you a single unpleasant name, I disagreed with you regarding interfering with other people's stock. I gave clear examples of how such apparently kind actions could prove injurious to the horse - as I note, did another poster regarding their horse rubbing itself sore when a NZ was taken off on a warm day, due to sweet itch.
My simple point is, that it is easy to jump to incorrect conclusions regarding other people's horses - as every horse is an individual; what works for one will not work for another.
In return, you posted a tirade of abuse, personal names against BlackDiamond and myself (as I stated in my earlier post).
I am impressed you haven't cursed at me yet, though - that's about the only place you have left to go.
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Not that I'd report you to Admin if you did.
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