Is this a stop?

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icestationzebra

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Need your opinions - if you were fence judging would you give 20 penalties for a stop here.... sorry the vid quality is so poor - it is a recording of a recording if you get my drift as the original file size is so huge I can't upload it. You might have to watch it twice in order to work out where the fence actually is as it's so small you can't see it!
Let me know what you think.
N.B the circle at the beginning is the start box......
ODE first fence
 
In BE rules it probably would be a stop, yes.
You're only allowed momenary hesitation if the fence is less than 30cms
 
I would say no as there are no backwards steps and no actual stop. But I have never fence judged and only competed in a few hunter trials.
 
IMO no, she slowed down and dithered but at no point did she actually stop or step back from what I could see, nor was she actually right at the fence when she did dither.

Take it you were given 20 penalties?
 
nope i don;t think so from what i can see, and it is difficult as there is a fence partly blocking the view, the horse didn't take any steps backwards/stop or need to be represented at the fence so no wouldn;t say it was a stop.
 
I think they probs were a bit mean to give it as a stop but what fence judge says goes and the rule is quite ambiguous.
 
Ok here is MHO - if you turned that circle after the start, then yes that's 20 penalties

However if that was before the start, then no I wouldn't give stop befor ethe jump providing none of the legs stepped back (hidden in the video!)
 
Thanks for your input guys - it is good to get other views on this. The fence in question although you can't see it is about 75-80cm. At the time I thought I had got away with it as I was always taught that a stop was usually classified by a step back - i.e whenever I have fence judged and someone has dithered or stopped but jumped from standstill without a step back I have not penalised them.....
I didn't complain and took it in good grace but was just interested to hear your views on it. Thanks for the replies
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NO, not a stop however not sure on rules for BE but isnt there something about hesitation? although he did not stop moving fowards at any point...didnt step back either!
 
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NO, not a stop however not sure on rules for BE but isnt there something about hesitation? although he did not stop moving fowards at any point...didnt step back either!

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The horse doesnt have to step back for it to be counted as a stop and you certainly dont need to circle away/re-present.
The only time you're allowed momentary hesitation is at a drop fence when the dont-step-back rule comes into play.
 
Depends - if he stopped and then jumped, yes, if not (just got deep) no - the rule is that forward momentum must be maintained - I nearly fell foul of that in my first PN but a well timed crack with the whip meant we just got away with it!
 
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NO, not a stop however not sure on rules for BE but isnt there something about hesitation? although he did not stop moving fowards at any point...didnt step back either!

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The horse doesnt have to step back for it to be counted as a stop and you certainly dont need to circle away/re-present.
The only time you're allowed momentary hesitation is at a drop fence when the dont-step-back rule comes into play.

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I agree i jump judge at BE events and it would be classed as a stop, but however at pony shows i would be a little more forgiving.
 
I asked about the stop I was given at Firle as I knew Saf had not stepped back just felt as if she propped on landing in an A B C element, but was told it was any ceaseation (SP) of forward movement? It may seem harsh but they are the judges
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Id say no. I believe momentary hesitation is when the horse stops dead, this one sort of stuttered forward slowly so didnt lose all forward momentum IMO. I think they'd have been pretty strict to have said a stop, especially if it was unaffiliated.
 
At BE it would prob. be counted as a stop, though that is also a little harsh.

FTR, a stop is not defined as a step-back, but a loss of forwards momentum; it is a stop, exactly what it says on the tin, and it doesn't matter how long the stop was. If you stop going forwards you are deemed to have stopped; if you start going backwards after you have stopped and you don't go forwards again, then you are into the joyous world of second refusals and so on.
 
I jump judge at BE and work in XC control and I would not have classed this as a stop, the horse kept going forward, albeit after taking a very quick look. The horse wasn't disobedient and it didn't step back.

If this was BE and it was recorded as a stop, the rider would probably appeal against this decision and I wouldn't blame them either.
 
i dont think it is a stop...you didnt loose forwards momentum really...your horse just momentarily hesitated!

i think they were very harsh!
 
That wasnt a stop IMHO, she was still moving forwards. If the hesitation rule comes in, that is SO subjective, as if abhorse trots round and slows the trot down, it would only be doing the same as ISZ did there from the canter, so how much momentum lost would class as a stop?!!
 
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