Is this cruel?

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justmyluck99

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I don't need any abuse.. just your opinions please. I ride my extremely strong 15.3hh horse in a waterford gag, grackle noseband and running martingale as well as a happy mouth curb chain for jumping or hacking. He goes well and I have just about enough control on hacks/jumping, but would you say it is too much? I am only 14 and, being a girl, not too strong! However, I am sensitive with him in the mouth because he doesn't respond well to jabs and hard pulls and I have been riding for several years now. All opinions welcome, but no abuse; you have not ridden my horse nor seen me ride!
 
If you only just about have control then why would you listen to anyone who says it's too much, or even ask opinions?
 
Is the horse happy with this arrangement? Sometimes stronger bits/nosebands can make a horse pull harder, have you tried anything else?

Sounds reasonable if the horse isn't objecting, on the grounds of safety-you don't want to have a brake failure out on the roads or jumping! But it might be worth trying something else (if you can do so safely) and lots of schooling. Some horses are just tanks though.
 
I prefer to see as little as possible on a horse BUT if he is happy in it, you have control and your safe, then as long as its the right combination for you, what does anyone's opinion matter?

A soft bit with harsh hands can be worse than a hard bit with soft hands.
 
Beausmate said:
Is the horse happy with this arrangement? Sometimes stronger bits/nosebands can make a horse pull harder, have you tried anything else?

Sounds reasonable if the horse isn't objecting, on the grounds of safety-you don't want to have a brake failure out on the roads or jumping! But it might be worth trying something else and lots of schooling.
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he has a tendany to plunge a little in his curb yet he doesn't seem unhappy.. although I wonder why I don't have more control with al of that on him ;)
 
fidleyspromise said:
I prefer to see as little as possible on a horse BUT if he is happy in it, you have control and your safe, then as long as its the right combination for you, what does anyone's opinion matter?

A soft bit with harsh hands can be worse than a hard bit with soft hands.
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I would prefer to have less and feel he may too... Don;t know where to start though :confused:
 
justmyluck99 said:
because I would appreciate opinions and other peoples' cases who can relate :)
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Well in that case I don't suppose it's cruel and you have given no idea what bit a "happy mouth curb chain" actually is but it's not kit that I would have chosen for a young teenager to be using. However, as you point out when asking for opinions, none of us have seen your horse or seen you ride, which of course does make it rather hard to give an informed opinion.
 
Yes you need control but usually the stronger the bit and other gadgets the more the horse reacts plus the rider and handler need to be respected by the horse.

Go back to basic tack, lots of ground work and flat work, pole work etc.
Then adjust bits etc if really nessesary.
 
With some horses less is more, If that's the case then perhaps some lessons to find out the root cause of him being strong would be useful. Learning to ride from your seat and leg and schooling him to be more responsive would probably help too.
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
Well in that case I don't suppose it's cruel and you have given no idea what bit a "happy mouth curb chain" actually is but it's not kit that I would have chosen for a young teenager to be using. However, as you point out when asking for opinions, none of us have seen your horse or seen you ride, which of course does make it rather hard to give an informed opinion.
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A happy mouth curb is a curb chain which has buckles so you can attach it to any bit, adding one more point of pressure to the horse when you have contact. I was more looking for opinions on the combination of tack, rather than how my horse may respond to it; others may have the same combination or used to and can therefore inform me on what may work for them now! :)
 
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touchstone said:
With some horses less is more, If that's the case then perhaps some lessons to find out the root cause of him being strong would be useful. Learning to ride from your seat and leg and schooling him to be more responsive would probably help too.
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I have regular lessons and my instructor has known him for most of his life and he is just a strong horse!:)
 
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justmyluck99 said:
I have regular lessons and my instructor has known him formost of his life and he is just a strong horse!:)
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Most horses can be trained to respond to light aids, at the very least in the school (xc/ hunting field may be a different matter). If you want to try and get him out of some of the gadgetry and try a softer bit, you need to start by going back to basics and get him listening to your seat and soft aids with snaffle bridle in a controlled environment. Then you try and scale it up so you can do faster work etc without the gadgets etc - but you really need an experienced, sympathetic instructor to guide you through it in person as no amount of advice from people who cannot see you or your horse is going to help.
 
If you want an alternative you could go to the other end of the spectrum and try a bitless bridle?

You would be surprised how many 'hot' horses respond well.
 
Oberon said:
If you want an alternative you could go to the other end of the spectrum and try a bitless bridle?

You would be surprised how many 'hot' horses respond well.
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I second this ^^^ I moved my old (long dead) mare into an English hackamore for a number of months (she was formerly ridden in a LOT of gadgets and strong bits) and eventually I weaned her onto a bendy rubber snaffle. It worked wonders for her.
 
So you effectively encircle his jaw in chain and then add levers to tighten the chain around his jaw.

No sorry, really don't like that idea, however if that's what your instructor recommends . . .


Incidenttally I had a quick look for a Happy Mouth Curb Chain but was unable to find one. Can you put up a link?
 
I would say get a good instructor and if need be use what you need for safety aspects. I use a very strong bit out hacking, rarely need to use any pressure at all on her mouth but i know its there incase of emergency.

Safety is paramount!!
 
I would second Oberon's suggestion of bitless. I know of at least a couple of team chasers who have changed to a Dr Cook bitless and had more control of their horses when competing. The Micklem bridle can also be used as a bitless bridle with two different strengths.

Horses naturally lean into pressure (you may have noticed this when they stand on your foot - you try and push them off and they just lean into you!) so the harder you pull the more he will lean against you. The more he is restricted the harder he will lean and in the end will simply take off to get away from the restriction. A bit of a vicious circle.

If you really want to change what you are using, it will mean a lot of re-schooling, patience and time to retrain his way of going, but it can be done. There is no magic quick fix I'm afraid.
 
I also think you should not discount bitless, many horses react to nose pressure.

And on that note another suggestion I like to make for 'strong' horses is to try a kineton noseband with your usual bit. The kineton only comes into play when the horses pulls and it then acts rather like a hackamore exerting nose pressure as well as your normal bit pressure. I like them as they only come into play when needed and you don't have another set of reins to use and they are effectively an emergency brake, so your horse is not getting used to something stronger in his mouth for example.
 
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