Is this normal? PTS question?

amymay said:
Ok, so those of you who think the vet did nothing wrong, think it's ok for vets to rock up and put a horse down - no questions asked??
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I think any questions should have been asked prior to the vet turning up to carry out the deed. Clearly this was going to be a distressing time for the OP.

When I had our elderly dog pts - I started to explain why to the vet and they said 'you do not have to justify your decision - do not worry or upset yourself'.
It is not a crime to put any animal to sleep and I think a conversation prior to arriving would have been more appropriate.
 
I too wouldn't be happy being questioned about putting down an elderly ill horse.

I could understand a vet possibly trying to dissuade the owner of a young healthy horse from euthanasia, but especially in todays financial climate where we are having horses abandoned and rescue centres bursting at the seams, it seems foolish to stop owners pts a healthy animal if that is their wishes. Far better pts humanely than sold to an uncertain future at the sales or left starving in a field.
 
I also agree that the vet is right to ask questions, but not to put doubt in the owners mind. I've had horses and dogs PTS with the full support of my vet. But I've always doubted it and wondered if I've done the right thing, which I'm sure almost everyone who has had an animal PTS does.
 
The vet's timing was rubbish. If he had issues, he should have asked you them prior to arrival IMO.

The hunt ask no questions - they are fast and professional and after taking the decision to put my mare down recently I would always choose this route in future and advise others to do so also. I am lucky though in that I had the support of YO and son and I did not have to attend. I said my goodbyes and walked away.

OP - you did the right thing. Please don't beat yourself up. x
 
Poor you. Sincere condolence on the loss of your dear horse. You did the right thing, as you know. Vet was unprofessional in giving his personal opinion. I think a letter to the head of the practice might be in order, when you feel stronger. Love and hugf.
 
Oddly I had the other experience some years ago, with the Hunt asking questions when I called them to put down my Highland pony who had been having short fits and dropping like a stone.

He had been having some Cushings symptoms--growing hair and horn at an alarming rate
One night he stayed down all night but was up when Hunt came for him

He was in good body condition and so they asked his history and were quickly satisfied it was the correct choice.
 
In response to amymays question- I believe the vet was in the wrong, not for asking questions, but the phrase that got me in the op was 'if it was mine I wouldn't do it'. Given the situation, the vet had no right to say that.
 
OP I have sympathy for you - a bit of tact can go a long way

Here is a story with similar undertones:

I had this horse in my care for a very old lady - she was with me for years, treated like one of my own and I was very fond of her. She was an ex racer and 22 - I had given my word that if anything happed to the owner she would stay with me until such time as it was not fair to keep her going.

On this Monday morning I had a phone call to say the old lady had died - not completely unexpected (hence above promise), but it was still very sad (I was very fond of the old girl too)

Monday evening I looked out the window and the horse who had appeared totally healthy in the morning was down in the field and my three had left her - obviously something was very wrong and I called the vet and managed to get her up to the yard. The vet was the owners vet not mine and the practice owner.

Vet looked her over - agreed she seemed very poorly took blood and gave her medication to make her comfortable.

Following day bloods show that she had gone into organ failure so I requested that she be put to sleep. As I did not own the horse and had nothing in writing regarding my promise the vet had to contact the executors of the estate - no problem with this but it turned out she couldn't be PTS until the next day - not my preference but the horse was full of drugs and seemed bright enough and did not appear to be suffering. The next day the original vet could not come as he had a pre arranged appointment elsewhere - so he sent another vet from the practice.

This vet arrived and demanded to examine the horse who was bright and looked well and then proceeded to quiz me about why I wanted the horse put to sleep and tried to change my mind - seriously.

I told him the results of the blood test and that really it was necessary - this didn't seem to concern him too much.

Anyway after about 10-15mins of debate he agreed to PTS but throughout the proceedure told the mare over and over again how he was so sorry and it was not his choice!

He was lucky to get off the yard without a punch on the nose. I was told later he was a Buddhist and they were not meant to take life - don't know if this is true so don't jump on me if its not!

Anyway true or not a couple of months later he was dead - died on holiday - only a young man too, so I try not to think too badly of him (or how spooky this was)

Like in every walk of life there are good vets and bad vets some with beliefs that maybe are not the same as ours, some that have a caring touch and some that don't - I have snotted on my vets shoulder on more than one occassion without complaint from him:D

What matters is whether the right decision was made - if you want my opinion - then from what you have posted it was - this is what you need to keep in your mind, not the behaviour of the vet

Take care
 
Unfortunately, if the vet thinks it is necessary to fulfil the insurance requirements he will question your decision and want to examine the animal for himself. My old girl is being PTS at the end of next month for very similar reasons to the OP (although she isn't yet looking all that bad) and I spoke to my vet at length a couple of months ago, plus she routinely examined her for a prescription and totally agreed with my decision. I am actually very happy that my insurance doesn't give anything for death due to old age, so it wouldn't have been a problem for me anyway.
 
Wagtail said:
Vet has to ask these questions to determine if the horse has fulfilled beva guidelines for being put to sleep. If you wanted to claim on insurance he would need to answer this.
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That seems highly unlikely as the horse was known to be at least in his 20s. Insurance would only pay out, if at all, in the case of an accident for a horse of this age.
I think the vet was completely out of order. OP, I would ask to speak to the senior partner/practice manager when you pay the bill and express your concern.
I have experience of vets trying to keep small animals going for far too long, although I must say that the worst 'offender' for this really did do because he didn't like to end an animal's life. I have known him be in tears at pts in the surgery. We usually prefer to have our horses shot rather than injected, so the vet is rarely involved.
 
Thank you very much for the usual horse and hound support. I feel better reading these, as I know it was the most humane decision.

I think what took me back was I wasnt some dotty person(some may disagree) and it was a hard decision. No insurance issues (uninsured) if I could have got him well I would have been happy for him to have lived another 10 years(I had a 36 year old as a companion etc once from an 8 year old etc). Money was no object for me(fortunately).

What probably suprised me and I appreciate the vet needs to be sure he is putting down a sick horse etc whatever that may mean?Although I cant imagine anyone having it done for the heck of it!!! It did cross my mind that healthy horses are going through sales etc for the meat market and why didnt he concentrate his efforts saving these types than my arthritic boy!!

One horse owner told me "you really dont need to hear that do you.." and was astounded.
The second, I should have told him I wasnt paying his call out fee and I should have got another vet. And agree they always use the hunt who come highly rated round here.

I would love to have used the hunt but had opted for injection(I was tooing and froing) I am not criticising either method. The injection was fantastic way to go in this case. He fell asleep on the first sedative and then didnt even acknowedge the final injection(the vet did a good job here). Thats all he did well.

But yes I do feel let down by the vet as we are good caring realistic horse owners, who have paid their bills every time and have used this practice for years. I would have been happy if my horse could have lived healthily another 10 years he was no bother at all but the back legs he was lame. But thank you so much for your replies. The hardest thing to do was making the decision to get it done. Bedside manner was utterly lacking. He just walked off after the deed was done.Great. The collection chap was so kind to us. Thanks again.I am waffling on....sorry!
 
You were right, your horse sounds a lot like our elderly mare we pts in June. The vet hadn't seen her for about a year but she did remember her once she came out. No one ever questioned our decision though but she was obviously uncomfortable and the day we put her down her back end started giving away on her.
You could write and complain to the vets.
 
I'm really sorry about your horse - no question you did what was best for him with the winter coming.

I would think that the the vet has been asked to put down a lot of horses because people can't afford them, don't want a horse they can't ride. Not everyone has the best interests of their horse in mind. So they are asking a few questions to make completely sure.

But it was insensitive of him.

Paula
 
Even if a horse is totally healthy and circumstance's like loss of job or owners bad health problems ect, I would expect a vet to PTS if asked, I am having a lot of lameness problems with mine at 18, he is picture of health otherwise, but if he can't do his job I will PTS, I have already asked my vet how much to PTS and dispose of, I am hoping it won't come to that, but it's my horse and I don't want him passed round the sales ect, there are a lot worse things for an animal than PTS, I would tell your vet to shove it and get another vet.

I couldn't bare the thought of shooting or the meat man, so it will have to be injection.
 
He's well out of order. He needs to develop some people skills and compasion.

When you feel a little less shocked, write a coherent and professional letter to him explaining how he could have handled the situation better. It will get it off your chest and help you move on from your upsetting experiance. xxxx
 
There are some vets that seem to want every last penny they can get out of the insurance. However vet was probably right to check against BEVA guidelines... But would an insurance company pay out for an oldie? Is it even worth claiming for it, assuming that the horse is realistically only worth meat money.

At the end of the day it's your horse, and be it healthy or not, or whatever the reasons for it being PTS, if this paticular vet will not do it, others will as will a hunt/knackerman
 
In this case, I would personally mention this to the practice when you ring to pay, or even better put it in writing.
A large part of a vet's job is to be good with people, and should have had a great deal more empathy with you. From the age of the horse, and its medical records, no questions should have been asked further than "Are they insured?", to which your answer would have been "no", and so no further questions needed to be asked.
I would put in writing to the practice in how you believe the vet to have been unprofessional through his 1) lack of empathy and 2)total lack of professionalism in saying to you "If the horse were mine..."
 
I haven't read all the posts but I went through this earlier this year with my cat. She was clearly going downhill, and at 15 all signs were pointing to liver failure or possible a thyroid problem. Both of which "may" have been reated with daily tablets. I knew my girl, and knew that there was no way that I would be able to give her daily tablets. One vet refused to PTS unless I had blood tests done (at a cost of £130), and made me feel like the worst owner inthe world. I took her home, and took her to a different vet the next day, which meant that a semi feral cat had to suffer 3 car journeys, and luckily the second vet listened and PTS that evening. I am still upset at my poor little cat had to go through all that - just to satisfy a money grabbing vet practise - that really didn't have the animals interest as number one priority.
 
littlelegs said:
In response to amymays question- I believe the vet was in the wrong, not for asking questions, but the phrase that got me in the op was 'if it was mine I wouldn't do it'. Given the situation, the vet had no right to say that.
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This, exactly. Maybe the vet has to ask these questions, but having the horses history available should perhaps have already established that PTS is the kindest option. To state that if the horse was his,he would not have done it was crass at best and downright cruel at worst
OP, I am sorry you have lost your horse, who you clearly loved and did the best for. You did the right thing x
 
Having had 2 of my own pts and held old boys for 2 of my friends, I cant see how the vet could possibly think of saying those things to you OP!!

The only 2 questions (and one of those could be asked at booking!) are a) are you sure, and b) is he/she insured.

My mare passed away in hospital so I suppose she was slightly different, but my old lad who was 36 + when he was pts was the picture of health (apart from torsion colic of course!) and all the vet said was 'wow. I would never put him at that age'.

Of the 2 boys I held, 1 was pre-booked and the vet who came out praised the owner for making the right decision (this vet is particularly reticent usually) the other was an emergency call, so the attending vet had to examine him, but at no point did he suggest the old lad shouldnt be pts.

When Melly tells me she is ready, she will go, and I expect my vets to support me 110%. In all honesty I would expect my vets to support me even if she was a young, healthy horse, because in todays society more than ever, there are far worse fates than death.
 
I feel for you.. That's disgusting to question on such a oldie!! My mare got pts aged 4 and had to suffer quite a while while they did every test etc etc. I also have a 27 year old mare that if I thought enough was enough would pts I would hate the vet questioning this as i think i would easily change my mind... They should be more sensitive to you! I know they need to question.. But there is a way to do that without making you feel like that x
 
OP I am horrified this has happened to you you are the person to decide to PTS the horse is yours .
If I where you I would either find another vet or get the hunt kennels to come and do it you are best placed coming into winter to know its time.
Best wishes at this difficult time.
 
I dont think the vet was wrong really to ask those questions. He has to do his job and maybe he didn't put it that well at such a sensitive time.

I had my old horse put down and had the vet out a few weeks before and we spoke about these things in advance and they did ask all of these questions. We then agreed that it was the best thing to do and let me pick a day when i was ready and it was the right time as he wasn't that bad that it would have to happen there and then.

I picked a really lovely hot day called my vet and they came out put him to sleep and it was lovely and calm.

It's a really tough decision and i'm sure things are still really raw but i think they were just doing their job. x
 
Vets can put a horse down for any reason, we had two put down for financial reasons (their owner's not ours, we just looked after them). It was massively sad but in the end probably the best for them. We were all very upset. For insurance purposes there are some quite strict criteria but otherwise it is up to the vet.
 
OP I'm sorry to hear about your horse, it sounds like the vet was insensitive. We had a mare pts in June due to arthritis. I wanted her pts by injection and by our female vet as the horse was scared of men. Our vet was very kind, she knew our horses history had xrays and steroid injections and she was on Bute. The vet reassured us that it was the right thing to do and not to feel bad, she offered to take my other horse to see Kelsi when she had been pts and told us to leave when the collection truck arrived. She stayed and sorted everything out.
 
Having known of two relatively young horses with minor problems, otherwise healthy, pts recently because the owners got new ones and didn't want to keep them any more or bother trying to sell them, I appreciate a vet asking the relevant questions on such an issue.
 
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