Is this pain related, or is it possible this is a mind thing ?

billylula

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Lovely horse started to refuse show jumps a year ago. We had back, teeth etc done and gradually started jumping again. He was going brilliantly, happy and cheerful. He's started stopping again and jumping awkwardly. After a training session at the weekend when he stopped again and again, he was covered in sweat by the end :-(

He's not lame at all. Teeth and mouth all good. Saddle looks fine.

To complicate matters he will happily jump xc, a bit awkward over the first two then fine.

Vet can't see anything wrong - he's just been and suggested a bute trial

Instructor says naughty - but I don't necessarily buy that. When I see naughty ponies they tend to stop or swerve but then jump nicely if they are told firmly!

I am obsessing over him and would love some opinions?
 

SEL

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This doesn't sound 'naughty' to me, it sounds like pain somewhere. Even jumping on a different surface could be exacerbating something more SJ than XC - although the adrenaline XC if he enjoys it might be masking the ouchy moments.

You mention having his back looked at last time there were problems. What was found?
 

AmyMay

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Are you over jumping him?

Have you changed your saddle, or anything to do with your saddle?

How old is the horse?

How often is he being shod?

Are you sure it's not suspensories?
 

billylula

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Thanks I'll try and answer all... Back vet did do some chiropractory stuff with him, can't remember what he said but that his rib cage had moved forward and he physically couldn't jump?? Anyway he did improve hugely after that. That was eight months ago. I have contacted him but he's booked out for a few weeks.

Saddle was checked a few months ago and is a really nice one that looks fine.

Not over jumped, no, competes every few weeks at 80cm.

He's 10 and is shod every five weeks as last owner said he was very sentoitve to foot balance.
 

billylula

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"Are you sure it's not suspensories'

No I'm not sure although he's absolutely not lame and will happily do a dressage test although his canter is a bit 'skippy'
 

AmyMay

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If his rib cage had moved (??) previously, then that would be my starting point.

I'd stop riding altogether until you've had a referral to an equine hospital for a full work up and thermal imaging. I'd also want the legs looked at. A horse that's bilaterally lame will often look sound.
 

Fanatical

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"Are you sure it's not suspensories'

No I'm not sure although he's absolutely not lame and will happily do a dressage test although his canter is a bit 'skippy'

They often aren't lame with hind suspensories - esp if its bilateral. Mine lost his canter when he did his...he's never had a days lameness in his life before, during or since.
 

billylula

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I asked my vet for a referral last ime but he put me off by saying that even if they found nothing wrong he wouldn't then be insurable.

I really want him to go somewhere where they can do a full work up. I feel so sorry for him as I'm convinced he's trying to tell us something :-(
 

billylula

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"They often aren't lame with hind suspensories - esp if its bilateral. Mine lost his canter when he did his...he's never had a days lameness in his life before, during or since" that's interesting.
 

Pearlsasinger

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If the chiropractor vet made a difference last time, I would get him back and ask him for a thorough explanation of what he is doing and why. I would also suspect bi-lateral lameness because of the skippy canter.
 

milliepops

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I asked my vet for a referral last ime but he put me off by saying that even if they found nothing wrong he wouldn't then be insurable.

I really want him to go somewhere where they can do a full work up. I feel so sorry for him as I'm convinced he's trying to tell us something :-(

if he is currently insured, then now is the time to use that insurance. Sounds like you know the horse isn't right in some way, so this is exactly what the insurance money is for, not saving it in case an even-rainier day comes. Could be all kinds of things but i agree that bilateral suspensories can present as pretty sound, save for an iffy canter, and often the adrenaline of xc will mask pain in an honest horse.
 

Batgirl

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"They often aren't lame with hind suspensories - esp if its bilateral. Mine lost his canter when he did his...he's never had a days lameness in his life before, during or since" that's interesting.


The boy in my signature was competing at Medium level, hacking 2hrs and never 'lame'. Sue Dyson at Newmarket worked him up : Bilateral Suspensories, SI joint injury and a rotated pedal bone.

Horses are rarely naughty for no reason, your instincts are RIGHT
 

Elbie

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Re insurance, even without the referral you would still have the work up by your normal vet on your clinical history so it's all a bit irrelevant. I wouldn't let it change your mind.
 

hottoddy

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On a totally different tack, could it be you? Are you more nervous showjumping than xc? Have you had a fright? Are you riding defensively at all? Any of these could make a difference to the horses way of going
 

Ambers Echo

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I went through all this with my daughters pony. Started napping. Was assumed by most to be behavioural. Scoped clear. Vet initially cautioned against scintigraphy in case they did not find anything as then would not pay as he was more or less sound. Just a little cautious and reluctant to move freely forward but nothing that could be described as lameness. I did a bute trial and pony was dramatically better on bute. So that would be my first port of call as that showed me it was definitely pain. And yes she was bilaterally lame on fronts AND hinds.

A positive bute trial would mean the decision to refer is less risky. But sometimes horses don't improve on bute even when they are very sore so a bute trial would help you prove it WAS pain but could not exclude pain, if that makes sense. But it's a fairly low cost place to start.
 

SEL

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You do have to stand your ground with vets sometimes. I got completely fed up last week and very nearly had a stand up row with them. I pointed out that 1) I was paying, 2) what I wanted them to do wasn't invasive and 3) if there was something wrong then I would be making it worse by working the horse bute or no bute.

After 8 months of having them out for on / off lameness we are finally taking action. Not all vets can see an odd hind end action it appears!
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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I had this with CF, it was only by nerve blocks etc and follow up x-rays that it turned out to be a hock issue. (at my insistence of vet doing them).
He went from jumping cheerfully to being v sticky. His adrenaline took over on xc once over the 1st couple of jumps but for sj he got v upset and started stopping. He also became a bit wobbly/careful in going down hills, which is what alerted me, all happened over a fortnight, tho on looking at the x-rays, this had been building up for quite a long time, likely before I got him.
Hope your answer is more pleasant tho x
 

BethanT

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Thanks I'll try and answer all... Back vet did do some chiropractory stuff with him, can't remember what he said but that his rib cage had moved forward and he physically couldn't jump?? Anyway he did improve hugely after that. That was eight months ago. I have contacted him but he's booked out for a few weeks.

Saddle was checked a few months ago and is a really nice one that looks fine.

Not over jumped, no, competes every few weeks at 80cm.

He's 10 and is shod every five weeks as last owner said he was very sentoitve to foot balance.

Sorry, his rib-cage had moved forward? How would that even be possible. I don't buy that at all, like when people say a horses pelvis is out/twisted. If a horses pelvis was "out" the horses would be severely lame as it would affect the whole alignment along side the whole of the horses body. Though I do realise that this may not what have been what was said by the vet, as is often the case - these sayings then get used totally out of context as usually said in laymen's terms for the owner.

I would look at ulcers and SI, but also check out yourself. My lad is super sensitive, and if I am out and wonky then it makes him sore etc and starts to work on three tracks.
 
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